Pipedream Farm Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Lambing time is here and the vultures (20-50 at a time) know it. Clean-up duty is okay with me but stalking lambs, heeling mothers, pecking the rears of pregnant ewes, standing on wool sheep checking in the fleece & pulling on fleece is way over the line. The Katahdins have been lambing; 3 sets of twins and 3 singles (mostly from 1st timers). The last set of twins was exceptional: 10 & 12 lbs. For comparison I weighed a single that was a few days old: 11lbs. The Romneyxs are not lambing yet. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Will a LGD go after them vultures? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Sounds like you need to borrow one of my goose dogs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 The wool sheep are more apathetic about the vultures as compared to the katahdins; the mothers will run off the vultures. One day there was a hawk that was diving at the vultures to drive them off; it must be nesting nearby. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Our LGDs will drive them off or kill them if they can. They are only allowed to land after the ewe and her lambs have drifted well away from the birthing spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 We live along a ridge and the vultures gather in our area this time of year for the air currents. At night they roost in pine trees adjacent to our property; we can hear their wings beating against the branches when they land in the trees. They are probably nesting in our area too, we just don't see the nests. There are times when there are 50+ birds circling over our fields. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 They are here in those types of numbers as well, but landing is definately not allowed until the sheep are out of the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 We have relatives that have had problems with the black vultures, but no losses since they got a LGD. Since the vultures are migratory birds (technically), they can't shoot them or anything else to get them away from their sheep. The LGD has prevented loss to vultures that (I've been told) donkeys, llamas, and some other guardian animals won't prevent. One other unintentional "control" method is that there are some power lines by the largely open barn area where the sheep lamb and the jugs are. A number of the perching vultures waiting to strike, have touched two lines as they flap their wings and the "vulture zapper" does its thing. We have turkey vultures here and I don't believe they are the same problem that the more aggressive black vultures are. We have seen at least one black vulture and hope they don't increase here. Coyotes are bad enough as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Don't underestimate how aggressive they are. If a ewe or cow goes down they will eat her and her undefende newborn alive. They just start at the soft vulnerable tissues and work their way forward. Before LGDs we would find skeletons instead of goat kids or lambs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I may be wrong here, but I dont think so, but vultures are not hunters or stalkers, but carrion eaters. Their food has to be dead before they;ll touch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I may be wrong here, but I dont think so, but vultures are not hunters or stalkers, but carrion eaters. Their food has to be dead before they;ll touch it. Black vultures will kill live (weak) animals, turkey vultures will not. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I think they are opportunists in the sense that if they can begin to feast because an animal is vulnerable or helpless, they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 American Sheep Industry Association: Livestock Depredations Black Vulture The black vulture's dietary breadth, social behavior and foraging skills contribute to its role as a problem species for many livestock producers. Damage by black vultures to livestock and poultry has been reported for decades (e.g. Roads, 1936; Sprunt, 1946; Lovell, 1947). In Florida, Baynard (1909) stated that "Hundreds of young pigs, lambs, etc., are annually devoured by them... I have had them come into my yard and catch young chickens." There is no doubt that black vultures continue to attack, kill, and eat domestic animals, but at this time there is little information on the frequency and extent of such occurrences. Data compiled by the USDA's Wildlife Services Program suggest an increasing trend in the numbers of domestic animals attacked by black vultures since 1997. These data are compiled from reports to USDA Wildlife Services personnel. We do not know what proportion of the total number of depredations is reported, so at best these data might represent minimal estimates of the extent of the vulture damage problem. Alternatively, these data might overestimate actual vulture-caused mortality because some of the deaths attributed to black vultures could have been due to other factors. During 1997 to 2002, reports of depredations on domestic animals by black vultures were received from 18 states. Virginia, Florida, Texas, South Carolina, and Tennessee accounted for 84% of the reported incidents. Depredations to cattle were reported from each of the 18 states, and overall more than half of the livestock depredation reports involved cattle. Overwhelmingly, black vulture damage to livestock was to young animals. This apparent preference for young animals is consistent with the birds' ability to identify and then subdue weak and vulnerable individuals. In Virginia, 115 incidents of black vulture interactions with 1037 livestock animals were recorded during 1990-1996 (Lowney, 1999). Vultures disabled young lambs and calves by first pecking out their eyes and then attacking vulnerable soft parts (rectum, genitals, nose). Cows giving birth were attacked in a similar manner. The prey animals were attacked by groups of 20 to 60 vultures. At a cattle ranch in central Florida, our investigations showed that both black and turkey vultures focused their activities in pastures where active calving was occurring. Both species of vulture were frequently observed feeding on afterbirth as well as on fresh droppings from calves. At this ranch, we also observed two depredation incidents, four months apart, and one attempted depredation. In each depredation event, the calf was dead and the heifer was alive. There were 20 to 40 black vultures feeding on the dead calves and attacking the heifers when we arrived. Possibly, the calves were stillborn, but it is also possible that black vultures killed them. Each of the heifers was unable to stand and each was euthanized by the rancher because of injuries inflicted by the vultures. During the attempted depredation, we videotaped three black vultures as they repeatedly pecked at the hooves of a calf as it was being born. This cow was able to get up and chase the birds off, however, and she later gave birth without incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Now your scaring me! My neibhors (next door) have 6 chicken houses, and vultures are around here constantly, being brought in by the smell of dead chickens. I have seen them circling my pastures many times, and my husband keeps telling me that they wont hurt the lambs. Predominatly, they are turkey vultures, but 20 or 30 of them will perch in a tree just next to my sheep pasture reguarly, and stare at my lambs. Granted, my little 5 month old Pyr pup is already running off the little terns that try to nest on the pasture, and the neibhors cats so perhaps he will or is deterrant enough when dead chickens are so close and easy. Thanks for that info, cant wait to show it to my husband. Wont hurt my lambs indeed! Mark, I cant believe your lambs are so big at birth. What hair sheep cross are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepandakom Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm wondering if that's what happened to the week old ewe lamb I lost a week ago. I haven't seen any vultures, but I found her in the pasture with a hole in her skull and one of her eyes missing. I thought my gelding had accidentally stepped on her, but it sounds a lot like the vulture attacks. I may be keeping lambs penned in the barn for the first 3 weeks. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I may be wrong here, but I dont think so, but vultures are not hunters or stalkers, but carrion eaters. Their food has to be dead before they;ll touch it. Bullsh** I've seen them eat a downed cow vulva first. If it's weak, wet, soft, can't get away...they eat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Mark, I cant believe your lambs are so big at birth. What hair sheep cross are you using? Not Mark but our Dorper and St Croix crosses produce 8-12 lb lambs usually as well. We use Dorper Rams, sometimes BFL and BFL crosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm wondering if that's what happened to the week old ewe lamb I lost a week ago. I haven't seen any vultures, but I found her in the pasture with a hole in her skull and one of her eyes missing. I thought my gelding had accidentally stepped on her, but it sounds a lot like the vulture attacks. I may be keeping lambs penned in the barn for the first 3 weeks. Emily Hole pecked in her skull is usually a crow kill. The vultures will get the eyes, but they lack a pecking type beak to open the skull that precisely. They start at the umbilical, eyes, or rectum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Happy suburbanite here. ::Yeesh:: You country folks live a harsh lifestyle! Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Once our guard dogs get a taste of placenta, nothing it allowed to land in the lambing field. Period. They'd chase off Air Force One. Fortunately we only have turkey vultures and the occasional bald eagle to deal with. On my sheep production board there's a shepherd with island sheep who has a real problem with gulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 My pups already eaten a couple, after that is when he started chasing off all the birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Mark, I cant believe your lambs are so big at birth. What hair sheep cross are you using?We have Katahdins; no hair sheep crosses. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Sounds like ya got some good sized lambs. I had full katahdin ewes and started crossing them with a St. Croix, and got smaller lambs with the cross. I had hoped/ thought they'd be bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepandakom Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Hole pecked in her skull is usually a crow kill. Crows will kill a lamb? I had no idea! She was a week old and a probably close to 15lbs. She was a big single. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 We have turkey vultures & bald eagles galore, but my biggest trouble comes from crows and ravens. The ravens are awful- they'll kill a lamb while the ewe is down birthing it's twin. The vultures & eagles usually only go for afterbirths and dead things. I've only lost one live lamb to eagles- out of 300 +/- lambs, that's not bad. I seem to have a deal worked out with the birds. I put dead lambs & ewes on a compost heap way away from where I lamb. The birds eat there & pretty much stay away from the lambing area. Most of my ewes eat their own placentas, and I've seen a number of ewes chase off eagles & vultures. We don't have coyotes here (if any showed up on the island, they'd be shot in a nanosecond), so no LGDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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