Chesney's Girl Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hey all. So Chesney is coming along and his outrun (which is NOT natural for the most part) is tight at the top. He stays wide and is now starting to check in with his sheep on his way out. I actually saw him once recently adjust himself accordingly after checking (I was so proud). Anyways. He comes in to tight at the top. He is tight even when he is at a comfortable distance for an outrun that really isn't pressuring him and is used to doing. Are their things I can do with him (other than running up the field to push him out at the top... 150 yards is a long way and he usually beats me there!). His flanks on the drive are fairly square, and continuing to improve. But this whole lift and having the sheep leave early because he's tight has got me kind of at a loss. It just seems that a flighty lift makes for a wild ride on the fetch and around to drive! Also if there are already posts on this let me know and I'll try to look again, I looked for some but had a hard time finding things to do with a tight top runner! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Everything I have been told is that you have to shorten it up- so you can address it better. Once they are good at say 50 yards or less, then increase. Need to get him out of the habit. Do the sheep break early- even before he is done on his outrun? That can cause a sucking in- and other more stationary sheep would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 It depends on the day if these sheep want to leave early or not. Somedays they are great and hang out for a little while. I will shorten it back up then and keep trying that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Shorten it up. If you are using sheep that won't stay till he gets there, try setting them on hay so they will stay. Go back to the round pen, and use the verbal correction when he's tight in there, so he will understand the verbal correction when he's not in there, and will still widen out when he hears it (like Alli has learned to do!), A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Everything I have been told is that you have to shorten it up- so you can address it better. Once they are good at say 50 yards or less, then increase. Need to get him out of the habit. Do the sheep break early- even before he is done on his outrun? That can cause a sucking in- and other more stationary sheep would help. the op is working on very dogged sheep, which is likely contributing to the problem. Setting on grain might help, but those guys see a lot of schooling dogs and they know the drill. Setting on grain will help, but more than anything you need fresher sheep. I've sent you some suggestions for additional places to work besides your instructor's place. Nothing negative implied about her at all,, just a normal progression that's needed with sheepdog training. If you feel like driving a few hours you'd be more than welcome here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Thanks for the quick responses. You guys are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 What about a set out dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 There really are not too many people that go on sunday to the trainer for lessons that are capable of holding sheep for a set out. Chesney and I are mostly on our own with the sheep we've sorted off that really are not that school sheepie, they will pretty much go where the dog takes them and if they really didn't want to wouldn't come to the person... They will hold with feed though. But a set out dog would be ideal for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Here are a couple things that worked for me. Like others have said, shorten it up till it's perfect. Stop him the second you see him being tight and kick him out. If you've done this at a short distance, you should be able to get a get back from your feet. If not, stop him and go as far as you need to get the get back. Make/let him over flank at the top for a period of time. I was shown how to do this by running in the same direction as the dog (after he is past you so you're not leaning on him) until you've changed the balance point by a good '15 minutes' or so. I found this to be incredibly helpful- especially with dogs that were checking up and pulling in because of their eye. Make darn sure you're not asking for a stop until he has control of his sheep. I was doing this- I was asking for the stop about 3 strides too early, which was encouraging a tighter lift. Hold the sheep with food. Ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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