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Did you see how the handlers were dressed?


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Jodi my dear, that dog is a straight AKC bred dog without a lick, and I do mean a lick of working stock in her pedigree, nothing, nada, zip ;-) She actually works pretty nice. You're not going to run her in Open, but she'd get around a Ranch course or possibly an Open Ranch course. Her image/this pic, will be on the caps and t-shirts for the Bluegrass ;-) Just goes to show there are no absolutes :rolleyes: well aside from death and taxes I guess....

Well, at least the dog is pictured doing something other than being stacked in the show ring. And a dog that "works pretty nice" but could never make it around an open course doesn't have a whole lot to recommend it as far as I'm concerned. In fact, your assessment of the dog's working ability serves to illustrate why "straight AKC bred" really has nothing going for it, which is generally the theme of these annual discussions. Yes, she makes a pretty model for a t-shirt (and at least she doesn't look like a typical conformation-bred dog in the image), but I doubt I could use her on my farm (or in any breeding program)....

 

J.

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A couple of people wondered about the breeding of one or two of the dogs that looked a bit less...well, less. (Less fat...less coated...etc...) The details of the entries can be found here. (Business as usual; same old breeders, same old breeding stock.)

 

Bo Boop, thanks for posting Patrice Palmer's artwork. I've never seen her work before, and it is lovely!

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Did anyone else notice how agitated the Beauceron appeared while being examined by the judge?

 

Yes--I noticed that several of the dogs seemed unhappy with that judge (though of course now I can't remember which other ones--maybe one of the Belgians??). It was a fairly stark contrast with the BIS judge--who you could hear calling the dogs "puppy" and generally looking like he was very gentle with them

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Go to any market town on market day, at least in the Scottish Borders, and all the men will be wearing jackets and ties. Even the truck drivers were wearing collars and ties under their coveralls.

 

I quit journalism because I never wanted to wear a tie again ... looks like a good thing I didn't chose this profession in the UK.

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A couple of people wondered about the breeding of one or two of the dogs that looked a bit less...well, less. (Less fat...less coated...etc...) The details of the entries can be found here. (Business as usual; same old breeders, same old breeding stock.)

 

Bo Boop, thanks for posting Patrice Palmer's artwork. I've never seen her work before, and it is lovely!

Huh, well I wondered if some of the lesser coated dogs were still in their puppy coats, but I can see by the birth dates on that list that there weren't really any youngsters there! It's rather interesting that there's maybe three or four main kennels putting these dogs out in the show ring.

 

J.

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The Shoreland dogs are usually more moderate, at least the ones I've seen - though there are some very typical "down under" types that they have used to "upgrade" their original stock.

 

I wonder whether they were the ones that actually were more moderate? It's really impossible to know without a picture next to the name. I'm too tired to go googling around.

 

ETA: I had to go look. I am pretty sure "Rip" is the dog I noticed - Shoreland Genetic Rip Tide.

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Jodi my dear, that dog is a straight AKC bred dog without a lick, and I do mean a lick of working stock in her pedigree, nothing, nada, zip ;-) She actually works pretty nice. You're not going to run her in Open, but she'd get around a Ranch course or possibly an Open Ranch course. Her image/this pic, will be on the caps and t-shirts for the Bluegrass ;-) Just goes to show there are no absolutes well aside from death and taxes I guess....

 

Cool! Maybe Patrice could draw a photo of Echo (straight working bred dog without a lick, and I do mean a lick of show stock in her pedigree, nothing, nada, zip) prancing around the show ring for the cover of the Gazette! She moves pretty nice, but you'd never win Westminster with her. She'd probably get a few points though.

 

;-)

 

Jodi

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Cool! Maybe Patrice could draw a photo of Echo (straight working bred dog without a lick, and I do mean a lick of show stock in her pedigree, nothing, nada, zip) prancing around the show ring for the cover of the Gazette! She moves pretty nice, but you'd never win Westminster with her. She'd probably get a few points though.

 

;-)

 

Jodi

 

 

Jodi...if you had a photo of Echo prancing around the show ring Patrice could definitely draw it beautifully! :rolleyes: Go work on that photo now!! All jokes aside now, I can only highly recommend Patrice for any photo to drawing artwork. She's very talented.

 

Maria

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Well, at least the dog is pictured doing something other than being stacked in the show ring. And a dog that "works pretty nice" but could never make it around an open course doesn't have a whole lot to recommend it as far as I'm concerned. In fact, your assessment of the dog's working ability serves to illustrate why "straight AKC bred" really has nothing going for it, which is generally the theme of these annual discussions. Yes, she makes a pretty model for a t-shirt (and at least she doesn't look like a typical conformation-bred dog in the image), but I doubt I could use her on my farm (or in any breeding program)....

 

J.

 

 

First, I wasn't "reccomending" the dog and second, I never said she'd "never' make it around an Open course, I said she wouldn't make it around one now, (and if that wasn't clear when I posted, I'd like to make it clear now) and that may or may not be the case...depending on the course, she's actually a pretty good shedder...and you, Julie, have no idea whether or not she'd be useful on your farm or not...I would venture a guess that there are a great many ABCA dogs (in trialing homes) that may or may not ever make it to Open, for various reasons. Having ABCA on the pedigree and having a dog that will work does not guarantee an "Open Dog". And no, this is not my dog. I have no interest in AKC, but I do find the constant bashing on these boards a little tedious...sure seems like time could be better spent working your dogs...and yes I'm guilty of spending time posting here this evening...I've not posted in a while, due mostly to the negativity and cliqueishness of the "working Border Collie folk " on this board. Off to order a cap and T-shirt now ;-)

 

 

Betty

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Autumn: You sure can have your opinion. :rolleyes: But we have the right to tell you that you're (in our opinions) wrong. Just as you have the right to ignore us, as you're doing right now.

 

You would not believe the comments I've gotten about my dog from show people. That Eve is "ugly" and too leggy, that I starve my dogs because they aren't morbidly obese... I could go on and on, but frankly I don't care much about the things that show people (and these people were "friends", too!) have said about my beautiful, sound working bred bitch. Though I like her appearance a lot, it's on the bottom of the list of things I love about her.

 

If conformation people feel entitled to call my dog ugly, I feel entitled to call their dogs ugly (or fat, or whatever). Let's face it, show people don't keep their mouths shut when they don't like the look of a dog. Why should I?

 

I know you've said you're done with this thread but since you'll likely return to check the replies, I have to ask you what your goal is with Ghost. Why show in conformation at all? To have the pet dog you love picked apart because of his looks? If he doesn't win, you'll feel bad. If you take all of their crap to heart, you'll feel bad about your dog too. Why bother with all that if he isn't going to be bred? I just don't understand why you would put a championship on a dog, just to neuter him.

 

Back OT: That Beauceron... I don't care how weird the judge was, for a breed that's supposed to be fearless, that was a pretty sad display. And that is the individual that is shown to the world as the best of its breed? Please.

 

I loved that little Beagle and it was nice to see an Aussie that was relatively dog-shaped and not built like a fat, hairy merle Rottweiler.

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Well Betty,

I'm sure there are plenty of folks, including myself, that find it rather tedious when someone invariably tries to throw "exhibit A: the straight AKC bred dog who also is an awesome working dog" into the discussion. I don't think I've ever said that all ABCA dogs are good workers. In fact, I don't think any regular contributor to these boards has ever said that, so I'm not quite sure why that even needs to be brought into the discussion, but whatever. Still, I think it will be the rare AKC dog (i.e., straight conformation bred) that can work to any reasonable standard (i.e., successful open trial dog), and if that opinion makes me cliqueish and negative, too bad.

 

None of this takes away from the artistry of the image, however, and if I attend the Bluegrass this year, I'll likely buy a shirt or cap. What would be really cool would be to see the dog whose image we'll don also competing there.

 

J.

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I find this all very interesting. In most other breeds, and on most other boards, it is hammered into peoples heads that the only reputable breeders are ones who show and get that ch title before they breed. Coming from shelties, if I had set out to buy a bc pup I would most likely have looked for an akc conformation breeder, probably one that did a little herding or agility on the side, and thought I was doing the responsible thing. I would have then come on here to show off my new pup and been disapointed or even offended to hear dogs like him refered to as barbies, so I see where those people are coming from. Luckily I never got that far, I found my guy at the city pound. I don't know what his lines are or what he was bred for, but he's a fine house pet and couch potato. Since reading and poking around though, I've come to find the idea of breeding for working ability refreshing. It makes sense, much more so than breeding for tipped ears or Irish markings, even if the discussion of it is tedious for a pet owner. I value the diversity, intelligence, and overall temperament of the breed and hope that is never lost, and if thats breeding for working ability only, then I'm behind it.

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Did anyone else think the Group-winning Weimaraner looked dead lame in the Best of Show judging? I swear she looked head-bobbing lame to me -- I was surprised none of the TV people commented on it.

 

I loved the beagle.

 

 

Oh, she was definitely lame. That's one of the topics of discussion in the show world right now - how the judge should never have given BOB to a lame dog. But that's show politics for you....it's also why showing is totally subjective.

 

I agree about Uno the Beagle....I wish the online videos had caught the sound better. I wanted to hear him...he certainly had a LOT to say.

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Yep. You're right.

Glad I read through ALL the posts before I added. I didn't watch the show on TV, but did check out the link to the border collies posted here. As for the clothes...if you've ever been to a big commercial dog event there is usually a booth or two peddling the FLOWING GARB for the handlers. And most big shows with web-sites will post the entries with arm band corresponding to entry # so those interested can check the results.

 

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2008/...eed/border.html

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And another thing. What's with the shoes that the handler -- the lady in the red suit - of Tibetan Mastiff #17 was wearing???? I couldn't even watch the dog, because the shoes had my attentioin. For all of you Seinfeld fans, they reminded me of the shoes that Kramer wore in one episode that made people think he was mentally challenged. Like some shoes a cartoon character would wear. (If they are some sort of special need shoes for an ortho problem, I apologize), but man!! Those were some strange looking shoes.

 

http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=217086

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These are NOT border collies!!!

 

http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=216651

 

Very very sad!!!

 

This brings up a question that I've been curious about for a long time.

 

I'm not asking this with any sarcasm or anything - I'm really trying to sort this out.

 

Let's say one of those very same dogs who showed at Westminster this year under the classification of Border Collie ended up in rescue somehow. The owner unexpectedly passed away or something unforseen happened.

 

Now, a prospective Border Collie owner, trying to do what is best for the breed, goes to that same rescue looking for a Border Collie and adopts that show bred dog and is not given any information about the dog's background.

 

If the dog is not a Border Collie, what exactly has that person adopted?

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