Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 This is the video that made me want to cry. http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=217210 What's scary is that I actually picked the winners. I can do that in other breeds most of the time but I can't with Border Collies. I hear the Aussie won group - is that a first for the Aussie? If so, it's been a while coming. It takes a while for a "new" breed to become "showy" enough to win group at a big show, or BOB at a smaller show. If nothing else, in my mind that's a real point against the people who try to claim that showing in itself does not change a breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 What I find ironic is this ... I went to go look up the results ... and found them HERE and what I noticed is ... if you click on the link that shows the photos of the dogs that won ... You find this ... And this ... But if you click on the link that says "Border Collie" where it provides information about the breed, it shows this: Jodi Jodi thats so funny that you brought that up because when I was talking to my friend the other day I sent her that link and said they should be charged with False Advertisement for the Westminster Kennel Club Clearly there is a disconnect between what they are judging for and what they advertise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I didn't see the border collies (except the one in the group) so I won't comment on them, but I was really suprised that the Aussie won that group. She had hardly any hair compared to what usually gets put up. Also, I really liked the beagle that won BIS. I liked how he barked when he was excited. In fact, as someone else mentioned, the dogs seemed a lot more dog-like this year, with more jumping, spinning, and tail wagging. And that Tibetan Mastiff reminded me of our 2010 Olympic mascot. We should have an Olympic Mastiff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 No, I think an Aussie has taken group before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aBC4me Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I actually have a question on this, why does the BC at the show have a shorter muzzle than the working dog(s)? Blaze has a long muzzle and I have thought about asking this question before but never did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLW1 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I didn't see the border collies (except the one in the group) so I won't comment on them, but I was really suprised that the Aussie won that group. She had hardly any hair compared to what usually gets put up. The Aussie belongs to someone I know from agility. She just had puppies about 5 months ago, so that's probably why she didn't have a huge coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 The Aussie belongs to someone I know from agility. She just had puppies about 5 months ago, so that's probably why she didn't have a huge coat. It certainly wasn't a criticism - I thought she had an appropriate amount of coat. It's just that the aussies that typically show up in group have such huge coats, I thought it was nice to see something more moderate. Also, she was the only dog (that I can recall) that had any kind of performance titles, so that was nice too. And she looked really happy. I was rooting for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 What is that mascot thing actually supposed to be? I have such mixed feelings about the whole dog fancy. On the one hand, I LOVE the morphological variation that is present in dogs. It is fascinating, unprecedented, and would not exist if it were not for all these show dog fanatics curating their various esoteric breeds. On the other hand, I hate what selection for these morphological extremes does to dogs, and wish it could be coupled with something that was better for dogs and more related to function than fashion. Interesting observation about how broad the dogs were in front, Robin. You're absolutely right. The only dog I've ever seen with working dogs behind him that approaches that kind of breadth is Solo. Solo's far from being fast or agile (for a Border Collie) -- more boxy and robust. Most of the working males I've seen who are his size or even larger are not built like him, they are built more like a smaller dog, leaner and more flexible through the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I wanted to call What not to wear on a few of those handlers....some of the suits didn't fit...the double slit in the back for the men is supposed to hide a wider behind....not so much...if you are short, you shouldn't wear a skirt that is skin tight and goes mid calf....and than attempt to run...arrgh perhaps they should put clothes on the competitors (ie the dogs) to hide some of the fatness! Confirmation people (and pet people) always think my dogs are too thin.. If you wash and blow dry even moderately smooth coats you can get them fairly fluffy....but they still don't look fat..of course I think combined, my 7 BCs, 2 giants and ACD (plus the LGDs) have had about 3 or 4 baths in the past year I had a hard time watching...but I could barely turn away...the Working Giant Schnauzers look nothing like the Giant schnauzers in the show ring...if that makes anyone fell better. The one thing I noticed in the working group were the LGDs...one, the Kuvasz I think, was actually from a working farm, had his ear ripped by a bobcat... The great pyr looked exactly like my pyr, except for the burrs, the matts, and the poop stains from getting into something. I said to myself, surely that can't be a LGD....it doesnt have mats in its' pants.... Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrasmom Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 2008 Best of Barbie (How many cookie cutter collies can a cookie cutter cut if a collie cookie cutter could cut collie cookies?) And in the interest of making this an educational thread, I quote Maria from last year when a very similar thread came up. And in another post last year, she said: So, Maria, in your honor ... here is your "Did you see how that handler was dressed" thread! Jodi I'm just touched...truly I am. And in your honor I went to watch the video you supplied as I completely forgot to TIVO the show itself. Seems I'm always the one who forgets about Westminster....go figure! But hey...I know that someone here will always remind me of what I missed! Red Dog kind of scary...little girl kind of cute...I think there've been worse clothes in the past... I do think there is one way to differentiate one cookie cutter collie from another though.....gallery framed and ready for show! Maria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aBC4me Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Now that surely is telling. OMG I wouldn't know what to do. I guess it's more of a what can you do. Nothing but laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Maria, that is the best looking show dog I have ever seen! LOL Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLW1 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 It certainly wasn't a criticism - I thought she had an appropriate amount of coat. It's just that the aussies that typically show up in group have such huge coats, I thought it was nice to see something more moderate. Also, she was the only dog (that I can recall) that had any kind of performance titles, so that was nice too. And she looked really happy. I was rooting for her. Nope, didn't take it as a criticism at all. She's a really nice agility dog too. Her owner is a great handler and I'm sure that the dog will eventually have agility championship titles. I know next to nothing about conformation showing but I know that best in show at Westminster is a once in a lifetime thing and it couldn't have happened to a nicer owner or dog and it's nice that dog that clearly can do more than strut around a ring was able to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrasmom Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Maria, that is the best looking show dog I have ever seen! LOL Jodi Jodi..lol..I'm sure he would agree!! He was quite happy with himself. As for what I did about it...well (aside for running for my camera) I just let him dry off and then it magically kind of disappeared. My dogs, even the vainest of the fluff-butts only get a bath maybe once a year. Maria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 If ya think American show dogs are fat, watch Crufts some time! Not only are most of the dogs obeese, they are like 8 and ten yrs old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 If ya think American show dogs are fat, watch Crufts some time! Not only are most of the dogs obeese, they are like 8 and ten yrs old. A lot less grooming and shapeing goes in to them as well. Its not very pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamincomet Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I think that most people missed the point of the OP. (At least what I took to be the point) This thread is supposed to be about education, NOT calling the dogs fat, and I for one am extremely offended, as one of my BCs is show/sport bred, and he most certainly is NOT fat. Actually, Sierra, who I got from a shelter and is certainly not show OR sport bred, is a lot stockier than he is. She even kind of looks fat, but she's not, it's actually muscle. You can't say something like that unless you've actually HAD your hands on the dog. And just for good measure, I DO believe that BCs should be bred for working ability, not for show, which is why I chose to adopt Sierra and turn down an offer from a breeder to get a puppy sired by that red BC you are all talking about. Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Autumn, none of the posts in this thread are about your dogs! You needn't take everything said about show dogs so personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamincomet Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Autumn, none of the posts in this thread are about your dogs!You needn't take everything said about show dogs so personally. Sorry, but it is about my dog. If Ghost ever turns out good enough to show at Westminster you can bet I will be showing him there, and then yes, you will be calling MY dog fat, without ever laying your hands on my dog. So yes, it is personal. Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 If Ghost ever turns out good enough to show at Westminster you can bet I will be showing him there, and then yes, you will be calling MY dog fat, without ever laying your hands on my dog. That kind of seems to contradict your previous post where you said that bc's should be bred for working ability, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'll only call your dog fat if he clearly is fat ETA: And no I won't, really, if you're still on the boards then. That's kind of the point I was making--it is NOT your dog up there, so we have NOT been commenting about your dog. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I think that most people missed the point of the OP. (At least what I took to be the point) This thread is supposed to be about education, NOT calling the dogs fat, and I for one am extremely offended, as one of my BCs is show/sport bred, and he most certainly is NOT fat. Wow! I was that convincing??? LOL!! Autumn, this thread comes up every year, and every year, everyone says "look how fat those dogs are" ... and every year, it's the one thing where Maria and I will ... "spar" ... so to save her some typing, and to take a lame jab at humor, I put Maria's blurb in there from last year and changed the title of the post to be about the handlers. I, personally, could care less what people call Barbie Collies. While they are pretty dogs, and they deserve as much love as my own dogs, I don't feel they are the same breed of dog that I own. I am of the firm belief that you cannot judge a dog's working ability by what angle their toenails are trimmed or what brand of bleach was used on their fluffy collars - no matter what their "flying trot" looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamincomet Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 That kind of seems to contradict your previous post where you said that bc's should be bred for working ability, don't you think? I never said that I was going to breed Ghost. I got him as a show prospect before I knew that much about the whole show vs. working thing. Now that I have him, and have put at least $2000 into him, I sure as hell am going to SHOW him. But will I breed him? No, he is going to be neutered after his show career is over. Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamincomet Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'll only call your dog fat if he clearly is fat And you can only tell if he is clearly fat by actually laying your hands on him. Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Why is it personal to call a fat dog fat? Would it be better to call them "weight challenged"? Would it make them feel better? It's all about their owners, and breeders - that's the point of this thread. Calling a dog fat doesn't reflect on the dog - clearly the dog can't help it. It's about these people who say they are professional dog people who glorify fat dogs - and on TV, at a time when both the human and pet population have terrible problems with obesity. And I have had my hands on a few of those show Border Collies and Aussies and they are "weight challenged." When you can lay a hand on their hips and jiggle the fat, that's fat in my book. You can see the jiggle in some of the videos. I've been in dogs an awfully long time now and can see stuff before I even have to feel it. Dogs don't put a bit of extra muscle over their ribcages no matter how ripped they are, and very little between the shoulder and spine! But it's one of the first places they start laying down fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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