Databse for pedigree info?

[NorthfieldNick]

Is there an accessible database out there to research ABCA pedigrees?

 

I'm a lineage nut... I have an enourmous stack of papers on my Arabian gelding's parentage- some lines going as far back as there are written records. I can tell you generations of breedings for some of my registered ewes.

 

I'd love to find out info about the dogs and breeders in Nick's pedigree. This got re-sparked when I saw Dale Montgomery's name in the thread about a cow dog sale. They bred Nick's sire.

 

Thanks!

[Soda-pop]

My Soda is a rescue, but was originally purchased from a pet store by her previous owners. She's ABCA registered, as well and I have her paper work. Anyway, Dale Montgomery bred her grand sire. I'd be interested in whatever you find as well.

[Katelynn & Gang]

There are three or so. Just google border collie database. I'm also a pedigree nut and can take my dogs pedigrees, for the most part, back to where the dogs aren't even registered.

 

Katelynn

[workindogs]

Yes, there are some databases....the best is a Dutch? site that has quite a bit of ISDS, but you'd best know your ISDS ##s because the owner names aren't there.

 

http://db.kennel.dk/

 

There is another US site that is building a database, but it's not as good yet....I can't recall the website.

 

BTW I have some Montegomery breeding and have done a fair bit of research on the lines. What did you want to know?

[NorthfieldNick]

Elizabeth-

 

I guess I'd like to know what the dogs in Nick's lines have done. Anything great, or just good farm dogs. I don't really plan on trialing, but Nick is a fantastic farm dog! He has such a wonderful personality- I'd hope he's not a fluke!

 

Anyway, his sire is Ben ABC 156553, who was bred by Montgomery, but is (Was?) owned by Deborah Bailey (why is that name so familiar?). Other Montgomery dogs on his papers:

 

Donnie ABC 13918

Lacey ABC 148000

 

Huck AIBC 64118

 

Huck (another one) ABC 18123

Meg ABC 24676

 

Nick was bred by Bill Reed in TN, although it doesn't look like he owned either parent.

 

Nick's dam is Kate ABC 175226. I was told she worked cattle, but I don't have any specifics.

 

I'd also love to to know colours on Nick's parents. He's blue (looks like mud brown), which is a dilute black. I could write a dissertation on horse colour genetics, but I don't know dogs. Where does the dilute gene come in? What colour carries it?

 

None of this matters other than personal preference- Nick was neutered a year ago

[JLP]

Here is a

six generation pedigree on him. Thats not a static page but should remain for a day or two.

[Shoofly]

Who is listed as Kate's owner? I know Ben, and if it's the Kate i think it is, i know some of your dog's littermates. Debbie Bailey lives in GA and has one named Huck that she ran in the Nursery Finals last year and i think placed well with. That particular breeding was done a couple of times and produced some nice dogs. Bill Reed has one named Lad that he does well with in cattle and sheep trials both. Hubert Bailey in GA has a couple of them as well but i don't know them as well. I think if you google Hubert you'd find his webpage and there are pictures on there. Kate and Ben are both black and white. Actually Ben might be tri-colored, i'm not sure. Kate is very black. Marianna Schreeder owns Kate and i think she and Debbie might both come on the boards every once in a while.

 

How did you end up with Nick?

[NorthfieldNick]

Robin-

 

Yep, it's Marianna Schreeder who owns Kate.

 

Hubert has a littermate of Nick's named Cap, and several half sibs. Nick must take after Ben- he & Hubert's Rex look a lot alike... except that Nick is blue.

 

Here's the story of how Nick, born in TN, ended up in WA:

 

I was borrowing a dog from a friend to work my sheep. Mac is a lovely dog, but he's NOT a worker. For various reasons. After he quit & left the field for the 100th time, I decided it was time for a dog of my own. I talked to a friend of mine, Bill Evans. He used to trial (had a great dog named Bob), and train. He's good friends with Pat Shanahan. Bill talked to Pat- Pat had seen Nick at a clinic and liked him. Granted, I was looking for someone's retired trial dog, or a dog who just wasn't quite going to make Open. Nick was (is) younger than I really wanted, but everything Pat & his old owner said just sounded so good. So in Dec of '06 I picked Nick up at the Seattle airport. He's a great dog. He's a fantastic worker, tries his heart out, gets the job done... the first time I penned sheep with him, I was amazed how easy it was! Granted, he's FAR from finished, but he does a good job. Plus, he's the sweetest, happiest dog I've ever met. He wins over everyone!

 

I don't know that I'll ever trial (used up my minimal competitiveness showing horses as a teenager), but I definitley got myself a good dog

[workindogs]

I have a Dale Montgomery bred bitch, Mist, who is very closely bred to Debbie Bailey's Ben. Ben and Mist have the same mother, Lacey, and their sires, Tim and Donnie, were brothers. Another dog currently trialing that is a "sibling" is Craig Roger's Luke, who has done well in sheep and cattle trials. I believe Dwight Parker's Craig is by Luke.

 

Here's Mist's pedigree: http://home.ix.netcom.com/~ebaker3/id15.html

 

I believe that Huck AIBC 64118 and Huck ABC 18123 are one and the same dog.

 

I've heard great things about Tim, Mist's sire, and brother to Donny....that he was a tremendous dog for Dale. Tim also sired Dale's great bitch, Jean's Gyp, who made Dale the biggest money winner ever at Calgary, winning it numerous times. I was also told that Terry Knodel's Katie was a tremendous bitch. I seemed to recall being told that Jack Knox's Dryden Craig was a special dog. On the bottom side of Ben and Mist is Lacey, a line breed back on Huck on the bottom and Lorne Smith's Hemp. I was told that Lacey could be explosive...a bit grippy. Hemp was highly regarded and previously owned by someone else (not sure who) who trialed him and gained high regard. Lorne Smith didn't do as much with him. Hemp was out of Dodie Green's great bitch, Soot, and Russell Drake's Imp. Lad, a direct son of Templeton's Moss (a sire of many many great dogs...Templeton's Roy, Patterson's York). I just sold a Mist pup to a guy that knew Lad and thought the world of him...said he was quite a large big boned dog, a real work dog with great stock sense...perhaps a bit hard to handle....he had said that he didn't think he ever see Lad so close in a pedigree again....helped him make the decision to buy a pup from me.

 

Essentialy, the Mist/Ben pedigree is heavily Dryden Joe line bred....something like 4-5 line breedings back to Joe, or Joe's sire, Dick Fortune's Glen.

 

As far as color goes, many of Dale's dogs are tri-colored, as is Mist. Mist has a fair amount of what I would call sabling.....brown undercoat, that gives her a muddy appearance at times.....but she's not blue. Mist is a tremendous work dog. There is no quit in her...she will work all day, sheep or cattle, until she hardly has feet left and still want to keep going. She's quite strong and strong minded, can be hard to handle and tense if you micro manage her, otherwise she is pleased to partner and get your work done. I didn't own her until she was 3 1/2 yrs and she had alot of mileage under her legs.....fairly independent. She is quite smooth, stylish and has some eye (the come forward, line dog....sticky is not in her vocabulary). She can pack quite a grip.....some times deliberate and hard and appropriate, other less appropriate and related to tension.

 

Here are some pictures of Mist:

A very muddy girl:

Mist's son by Tex, Jed:

[NorthfieldNick]

Elizabeth-

 

Wow! Thanks! That's great info. I'll have to go look at the pedigrees harder when I'm not working.

 

Nick & Mist look much alike- that long build. Nick even has the 3/4 ruff and lop-sided blaze. Nick will also work to exhaustion, then keep going. Last winter, it snowed & I had a band of rowdy ram lambs get loose. It took us nearly 5 hours in the snow to get them back where they were supposed to be- no idea how many miles we had to go to find them all (some had gone to visit the ewes down the road), and Nick never once even thought about quitting. He gets sticky sometimes, but I think it's just from lack of conifidence and miles. He's only 3 1/2. I need to make a serious effort to get him on sheep far more often. I'll need him for lambing this year, I know. Nick also has a good grip- and it comes out when he's frustrated. Although, the first time I really worked him, by big dumb wether came at him & Nick had that sheep by the nose in a flash! I was amazed!

 

Nick has an independent streak, but he's always looking to make you happy. Now that I think about it, the times I've had the worst luck with him were when I was micro-managing... Hum. I never thought of that before.

 

I don't have any pics of Nick here- I'll find one when I get home.

[workindogs]

If you are interested in seeing a relative work....I've posted a video in the Working Section Training Discussion of my not quite 2 yr Jed....the ultimate in Looooonnnng body.