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"Barbie Colles Can Herd, Really!"

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I played ball yesterday to see exactly what they would do and every time they lined up differently dependant on the direction of my body and which of them is more sensitive to my movement. A few of them are always behind Cooper (who LLLOVES his ball) but my three hard-core chases (Grace-Cooper-Wenty) more or less surrounded me and hoped to guess which direction I would toss the ball in.l

 

Wenty is itching for a smackdown because he's one and has gotten into the habit of going up to the dog with the ball, smacking it out of his mouth with his paw, and then catching it and running off with it. Sooner or later Cooper or Gracie are going to tell him that's not PC .... but I'm still hoping to catch it on video first because it's really funny. Including the look on the Cooper or Gracie's face when they realize they don't have a ball in their mouth anymore.

 

Maria

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Not necessarily. The most intense, focused dog herder i've ever owned would look a lot like Billy to anyone else when with the dogs. Both she and he show(ed) a lot of eye and cast on other dogs. She no longer lives with me because she never would work sheep and was scared of them, despite no bad experiences with them while growing up. He, on the other hand, is showing intense focus and desire when he does work sheep (no pressure from me of course) and there's just something about him that feels different to me. She was just having a good time and playing where he seems to be craving work of some kind. Hard to explain and seriously, they'd have looked just the same to anyone else watching them flying around and eying the other dogs. As usual, the answer is "depends on the dog" (and maybe the trainer). :rolleyes:

 

 

I took Tate back from Robin when she was 8 months old and definately afraid of sheep; the others in the litter are not afraid, all the puppies are on sheep or cattle farms; the mom works every day on 250 sheep and trials at the PN level, the sire was N.A. champion and works on a sheep farm. No telling sometimes...but she was a darn cute puppy...maybe i should akc register and show her...kidding...she would never win, her earset is all wrong, smooth coated, too much white..and she smiles and rolls over when she sees people!

 

I certainly didn't encourage that when they were 8 weeks old...and my worst dog herder I got when I sold Tate to Robin. That was, until I got Tate back.

 

Tate is starting to herd, nothing to make a good trial dog out of but I am hoping I can get her to the level that she will drive, she wants to cover but I think I can make her useful to a sheep farm on a small property...I would never ever do that cross again, I didn't like the results. And what a pain to have to try and make a dog herd. BTW Robin, i'll try and take a picture of her this weekend when we work her, at least there is some hope...and before I sell her she will be spayed because she is not a good example of what should be bred...even though her litter mates are doing well, her parents are good..sometimes it just doesn't work out despite the best intentions

 

BTW, I can not call Tate off when she is herding Libby...that's a pain; We spent a lot of time working with the new puppy to make sure we can call her back and that isn't her sole focus....waiting for Libby to come out the door so she can herd her.

 

Maybe I should walk all 12 dogs seperately...i'd have to quit my job

 

c

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I'd love to see a picture of the Tater Tot! I spent a lot of time trying to keep her from working whichever dog of mine she was into - can't even remember now, must have been Tess (gone now too). I thought she was going to be one intense worker but oh well, c'est la vie. Definitely "the cutest puppy ever" though. :rolleyes:

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Just to bring this thread full circle...

 

I can forgive Donald McCaig and the trialing community for the slight, since I've never really believed that anyone can "love the sinner, hate the sin." In this case, sheeple hate the sinner (AKC), hate the sin (breeding for looks) and so why shouldn't they belittle the spawn of such evilness? I know he has a Scottish name, and I know he has Scottish dogs, but you really can't expect all Scots to be Rob Roy and embrace the bastard child of your aristocratic arch nemesis after he raped your wife and raise the little cuss as your own. Plus, I don't think very many sheeple made it to the movies to see Rob Roy in 1995 to be inspired by Liam Neeson's magnanimity, they were too busy protesting Babe.

 

In the movie Rob Roy, the wife is indeed raped by Roy's arch nemesis, however the viewer can never be certain of the child's parentage (or even if she was pregnant at all) because Roy and his wife have also quite recently committed coitus. Also, Roy, at the end of the film, has no knowledge of the rape because his wife kills the only man who might tell him.

 

Pointing this out might seem silly in light of the seriousness of the previous conversation, but it is an excellent example of the blogger's willingness to take away from a story only what is convenient his argument. His premise and all of his examples are fallacious.

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In the movie Rob Roy, the wife is indeed raped by Roy's arch nemesis, however the viewer can never be certain of the child's parentage (or even if she was pregnant at all) because Roy and his wife have also quite recently committed coitus. Also, Roy, at the end of the film, has no knowledge of the rape because his wife kills the only man who might tell him.

 

This isn't actually accurate. In the movie, Robert MacGregor does have knowledge not only of the rape, but of the child which may or may not be his. When Mary MacGregor says she could not kill it (the child), Rob says "it isnt' the child that needs killing." Also Mary did not actually kill Killearn, Alasdair drown him after Mary stabbed him. Its one of my favorite movies.

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Been gone all weekend but to chime in on the lining up thing.

Jazz is my oldest dog. She is the lowest in pecking order. She is the ball chaser extraordinaire. So she is first. Ray (sharing top bitch spot with Dew) works Jazz, Dew, who is my youngest but shows lots of promise to take lead spot from Ray, works any of them but hasn't learned that nipping is not ok and is always getting corrected from whoever she nips except Jazz who would as soon roll over and die before she'll correct another dog. Mick the leader of the pack will work the outside of all the dogs. Who ever looks available to work is who he chooses. He was taught at a very early age by Raven the consequences of nipping anyone’s butt so rarely comes in very close.

In summary

Jazz won't EVER work anyone, she's the ball chaser. Mick will always be on the perimeter of the whole game. Dew will work anyone and try to nip anyone so is always getting corrected from someone, even me. Ray works Jazz and also protects her from other dogs that might try to nip her.

 

They let other dogs get in on their family game as long as rules are followed and no one takes a cheap shot.

We had a foster here who hadn't learned the rules yet. She went after Jazz. Poor baby laid down and just cried. Ray came in protecting Jazz and got whipped, Mick came in to protect Jazz & Ray and got whipped. I finally got Mick and the foster apart and things clamed down. The whole time a young 6 month old Dew was riding the fosters butt trying to do something but all of the dogs totally ignored her like she was a fly on the wall.

 

I don't have time to play separate games or the patience to work out all the game rules so this is what works for us.

 

I learned this weekend just how much I'm missing in not taking Dew to sheep alone enough. She learned so much this weekend but I learned more. Mainly, she needs alone sheep time. that means not letting ANYONE(dogs) come out to watch or work around her. She put the smile on my face that I haven't had in a few weeks cause I've been busy. But I'm reprioritizing to get her time alone!

Cheers to the warm weather we're having.

 

Kristen

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Here is another question to ponder- Off topic, yet again, Do the males, during play time submit dominance to the females? I've only had 2 male BC's. With my 2, they would give up to the women. Is that your case?

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Not in my house. Solo is the king (while I am the goddess) and the girls defer to him. Not just because he's nuts, but because he's the only one who really seems to want that job. That said, he doesn't get bent out of shape if someone else gets to the ball before him so it happens very occasionally.

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Here is another question to ponder- Off topic, yet again, Do the males, during play time submit dominance to the females? I've only had 2 male BC's. With my 2, they would give up to the women. Is that your case?

Mine do- if they know what's good for them... :rolleyes: In my household "girls rule, boys drool!" Apparently, the girls make up the rules, too! My most dominant boy is reluctantly forced to be "the rabbit" and the girls all line up behind him. The less dominant boys just try hard to stay out of trouble somewhere on the fringes, but aren't permitted to "work" the dominant boy or the girls.

Laurie

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I don't really see any dominance in the way mine play. They all seem to have a specific role that they like and they tend to stay in those roles. Dean likes to chase the ball, get the ball, and bring it back and give it to me. Speedy prefers to just run around with a ball in his mouth. Maddie doesn't care for ball, but she likes to run with the boys.

 

So, I'm ready with the ball and Speedy is usually closest to me - with a ball already in his mouth and intent on the one I'm about to throw. Dean lines up behind him with his eye on the ball and Maddie is off to the side with her eyes on Dean. I throw the ball and Dean leads the way to the ball - usually with Maddie right on his heels, and Speedy runs in a big arc around Dean, keeping his eyes on both Dean and the ball at the same time.

 

If, for some reason, Dean loses the ball, Speedy very adamantly points to it with his nose so Dean can get it. Then they all return to me. Usually with Speedy in the lead, Dean in an arc around Speedy, and Maddie trotting along in a straight line. Once Dean has the ball, Speedy turns his attention to me and runs back my way to watch Dean deliver his ball to me. Dean returns keeping his eyes on Speedy as he returns to give the ball to me. Maddie checks out for a second to sniff something as the whole game gets set up again.

 

It's interesting to me to watch the give and take in the "leader" position in this game. It's kind of like they are a team and the leadership shifts depending on what point the game is at. They seem to give and take the lead quite amiably, and when there is another dog in the mix (Mickey, our former foster, or a dog that we are dog sitting), the new dog has always blended right in and found his own role.

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Girls rule, boys drool. Yep, thats seems to be the creedo with which my packs order is as well. Even my 110lb GSD takes orders from my 30 lb collie. And thats a pretty funny sight!

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Here is another question to ponder- Off topic, yet again, Do the males, during play time submit dominance to the females? I've only had 2 male BC's. With my 2, they would give up to the women. Is that your case?

 

No, everyone at my house submits to Arlo, aka twelve pounds of terror. But he's a Lhasa Apso, so he's genetically predisposed to being a tiny tyrant. :rolleyes: Faith will play with him, but verrrry carefully. Violet is terrified of him and gives him a wide berth. Abbie gets along best with him, probably because she's a terrier.

 

My other male, Scot, is a BC/pyr cross who hasn't been introduced to the pack yet because he's convalescing from HW treatment. I bet he'll be the "whatever you say, ladies" type, though. :D

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Here is another question to ponder- Off topic, yet again, Do the males, during play time submit dominance to the females? I've only had 2 male BC's. With my 2, they would give up to the women. Is that your case?

 

Not at our place, unless your talking about the humans :rolleyes:

Mick would like to think he's the king and he probably is cause there aren't any more males that are BC's here. He rules the male LGD's but that's because he was here first and raised them to believe he'd kill them if they step out of his rule box.

 

He does submit to Raven but she never really insists anymore. He follows her rules but acts like they're his rules. I think he's trained in her mind!

 

I think Mick is just a very pushy dominant jerk. I'm always on him to play nice or telling him to leave others alone. He listens when he thinks he has to but then he's right back to his jerky ways when he thinks he can get away with his crap. He is a tester of sheep work rules too.

Tonight for a change I was in a big hurry doing chores. It was getting dark and I was cold and crabby. For some reason he knew this and never made me raise my voice. Which is not his normal behavior.

 

Kristen

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