Working Cues/End cues

[Mudpups]

Does anyone use working cues when teaching and refining behaviours that are different from the final/end cues that you use in agility competition? Or is this not necessary with a Border Collie, are they smart enough to make the transition to the final behaviour without requiring a new cue?

 

I've not done agility before so its all new to me, and we have only done two puppy foundation classes before xmas, so I don't even know officially what cues I should be teaching him other than touch. LOL I'm making everythign up as we go:) So what kind of cues does everyone else use for foundation agility?

 

I ask this because Taj has already shown that he comprehends things that I know other dog breeds would never grasp eg that his special agility lead is ok for tugging on (but only when I say, and he drops it immediately on cue) but that his other leads are not tug toys. I have to admit that I expected this of him, and was prepared to train it if necessary, but his leave it/drop it/that'll do are pretty good and he is able to generalise the commands to many different situations (it saved him from a bee sting in the mouth the other day when I was a good 20 metres away). Hope I don't jinx myself on that now, he is hitting puberty

 

Taj is only six months old, and I am well aware that he is still a baby, but he is so damn smart that somedays I have to really run to keep up with him (LOL literally and mentally). He will bust his butt trying things until he understands what I am asking, but once he understands what I am asking for he dosn't like repeating it more than a few times in a session (which is fine by me, and might be a sign of mental tiredness on his part).

 

I know you are not supposed to overdo training in puppies, but he is such a sponge, its all a game and he thrives on it. I have had dogs all my life, and I am comfortable that he is comfortable so to speak, but what is too much for a six month old BC puppy? (I don't mean jumps or weaving or the physical stuff, we don't do that.) I am home with him all day, and we usually train for different things for a minute or two many times a day (but not everyday) eg. yesterday we did 'back' - taking a couple of steps backwards, whenever the opportunity arose. Today we spent about five minutes solid, and by the end he was scooting backwards the length of my kitchen, then doing a spin on cue. When he had done that twice, he threw in a roll over after the spin, so I cued that into the sequence. I am not expecting a perfect straight back up or increased speed (although he seems to be doing this himself). He seems to be thriving on this type of training, and we cetainly don't over do it, but is this asking too much of him at this age?

 

Thanks!

 

Michelle

[3dogslater]

Does anyone use working cues when teaching and refining behaviours that are different from the final/end cues that you use in agility competition?

 

Are you talking about commands for specific obstacles like walk and jump? I don't name obstacles until my dog can do them with understanding and speed. I don't want to name a tentative or incorrent behaviour so I wait until my dog is doing it the way I want before I name anything.

 

I don't even know officially what cues I should be teaching him other than touch.

 

There are no offical cues I've heard tunnels called tunnel, through, in, under etc - as long as you can keep it straight in your mind. The one suggestion I would make it not to name them all "T" words - teeter, tire, table, tunnel, especially since your dog is named Taj. Teeter could be plank or wobble or board or hit it, tire could be hoop or ring, table could be box or bench. Jump could be jump, over, or hup, as long as your tire isn't hoop.

 

So what kind of cues does everyone else use for foundation agility?

 

My foundation work focuses more on developing a working relationship than on any specific cues. I teach my dogs to work for food or toys, and be able to take either when offered. I teach basic obedience and the ability to focus and work with me around distractions. I do a lot of shaping and clicker training so that my dog enjoys learning and is willing to offer new behaviours. I also do self control exercises, teach a good recall, and socialize my dog to as many places and people as I can.

 

I teach "tricks" like backing up, turning left and right, walking on weird surfaces, rolling over, shaking paws - anything that teaching my dog body awareness will pay off in the long run. I also make sure he got lots of time running and swimming and hiking in the woods, as well as playing with other dogs.

 

I ask this because Taj has already shown that he comprehends things that I know other dog breeds would never grasp eg that his special agility lead is ok for tugging on but that his other leads are not tug toys

 

Hate to burst your bubble but my dane mix and malamute mix also know this If you tell him when to tug, he should be tugging on whatever you offer but not choosing what he wants to tug on, leashes or otherwise. You should be able to train with a toy on the ground or in your hand with Taj only taking it when you tell him too.

 

what is too much for a six month old BC puppy?

 

At six months old you should be avoiding repetitive exercises, especially once that could injure his growth plates. The short sessions you're doing are great, but you also want to work on having him focus for a longer period of time. Five seconds is only useful for flyball

 

If you're looking for suggestions on foundation work for dogs for an agility career, Kim Collins' book "From the Ground Up" has really well laid out sections on teaching the skills you will need to do well in agility and they are suitable for your puppies as long as you wait to train jumps and weaving until they are older.

 

Taj is also heading into adolescence and your wonderful puppy is about to turn into a teenager. There's a reason so many dogs are given up between 9-18 months!

[Mudpups]

Thanks for all that info, that is what I was looking for:) And it looks like we are doing everything pretty much right so far:) Oh, he only tugs when he is told he can and will tug with whatever toy I offer him, not just the agility leash. We do general obedience training for longer, and his focus is great for this, I just looked back at my post and realise that I missed out a sentence that we do obedience training for at least 10 minute sessions but not always everyday (this is when we run through everything that he already knows, the basics, sit, stay, come, heel, down etc). The shorter sessions are mostly for new things that we are training, and specifically the agility foundation things (the emphasis is having fun and making him focus on me). He is super food and toy oriented so maintaining focus is not really an issue, as long as I don't ask him to sit 20 times in a row:)

 

I did get a special fleece tug lead for agility because I had too much trouble trying to co-ordinate dog, clicker, treats, lead *AND* toy with only two hands LOL.

 

So maybe the generalization of a puppy getting confused about tugging on a leash is more a case of expectation and training? I didn't think there would be any issue, but I had several non-BC agility people strongly advise me to use a toy not the lead because it would cause all sorts of other lead problems, then a couple of BC people told me afterwards to use the tug lead as most BC's understand the difference. LOL, interstingly enough, when I looked around, it was mostly the BC owners using tugging leads:)

 

He is a wonderful pup, but not an angel all the time by any means and he has been testing boundaries left right and centre recently (and I am sure will continue to do so for many many months;) but we are both consistent and firm with him, and he dosn't get away with any unwanted behaviours.

 

I have some more basic agility questions, but it is late and my eyes are going square so I will post them tomorrow!

 

Thanks

 

Michelle