Hoku got a deer

[vickim]

I live in one of those areas where dogs chasing deer are shot on sight. In fact, where my parents live there have been at least two cases where the hunters later tracked the dog back to its home and shot it dead when it was in its own yard (whether or not it had previously chased deer is unclear to me--perhaps it did, or perhaps they were just nasty huters. I, for one, would raise all kinds of heck if someone did that to my dog).

[blackacre]

Northof49:

Urban myth.

But either way, I bet you have the perfect solution.

A

[painted_ponies]

I live in one of those areas where dogs chasing deer are shot on sight. In fact, where my parents live there have been at least two cases where the hunters later tracked the dog back to its home and shot it dead when it was in its own yard (whether or not it had previously chased deer is unclear to me--perhaps it did, or perhaps they were just nasty huters. I, for one, would raise all kinds of heck if someone did that to my dog).

 

OMG. Were the people home at the time? In my neighborhood - hell, at my house - those guys would be in real danger of getting shot the second they got out of their truck armed.

 

Pearse, yes, I agree about equine assisted therapy not being the same thing. I was sort of being facetious. I suppose I thought of it because of the way horses' relationships with people, e.g. the jobs they do, the sorts of things expected of them, have changed so much in the past century. I wonder if the same sort of thing might happen with sheep.

 

Which is why, I suppose, people are concerned that sheep not become simply dog training aids. I know people IRL who are very frank about the fact that they only have sheep to train their dogs. But do you think this is necessarily bad for sheep? The people I have in mind take very good care of their sheep and work very hard at training a dog to be as easy as possible on their stock. I'm too new at stockwork to really have an opinion, yet - I'm just curious what y'all think.

[BustopherJones]

I have some excellent recipes for venison stew and venison chili, if you are interested.

[Dalesred]

I had this problem with Meg. Round here there are deer and sheep as well as rabbits and squirrels. I acted when her recall went to pot when on the scent. She would be off, barking hysterically and is fast enough to catch up with most things. On one occasion she got away, leapt over a dry stone wall and chased a sheep grazing on the moor beyond. I hadn't spotted it and I should never have let her off the lead. She cahsed it into a stream and gripped it. I was completely mortified. Fortunatley the sheep was unharmed physically but I am well aware what can happen if in lamb ewes are stressed. All completely my fault. As we live in sheep country this was a sickening development which I thought would probably mean exercise on an extendable line only - a huge issue but if that is what was necessary, then so be it.

 

I never thought I would say this, but a year of intensive work turned her round. I first used a citronella spray collar under the direction of a behaviourist. All aspects of discipline were tightened, and her focus on me improved dramatically. At the same time we spent lots of extra time playing retrieve and search and fetch games. The farmers round here would suggest putting her in a pen with a ram - but I wasn't willing to take that risk with her welfare.

 

Now she will walk perfectly to heel off the lead through a field of sheep without batting an eyelid. If we're in the woods and she picks up a scent, of anything wild, her recall is instant. It really is instant and so, yes, my experience is that the situation can be retrieved. Obviously it depends on the individual dog.

 

My full bred BC, howevre has never shown the remotest interest in chasing or herdign anything.His passion in life is tennis balls. MAybe he has learend his good manners from Meg, the reformed delinquent.

[Root Beer]

Kristen, I suggest you put him on a long line, invite the behaviour, let him get a head start and then flip him but good once he reaches the end of the line (run the other way if you need to). Then, once he picks himself up, call him back nicely. A couple of sessions like that and he'll be thinking twice before he blows you off on the recall again, deer or no deer. Yeah, it's harsh, but so is killing deer. Even if he never catches one again, chasing after one is bloody dangerous too.

 

A

 

I'd be very concerned about neck injury using this method. In fact, I wouldn't risk it under any circumstances.

[Northof49]

Northof49:

Urban myth.

But either way, I bet you have the perfect solution.

A

Well then I suggest that you let my Myotherapist that has worked on dogs with whiplash injuries that have been clotheslined like that that she doens't know what the hell she is talking about. She has treated whiplash in dogs that have been accidently clotheslined and those that it was done to as part of training. Often the injury does not become apparent immediately. If I didn't have first hand experience of seeing dogs being treated for this, I wouldn't have made the comment.

[Shetlander]

She has treated whiplash in dogs that have been accidently clotheslined and those that it was done to as part of training. Often the injury does not become apparent immediately. If I didn't have first hand experience of seeing dogs being treated for this, I wouldn't have made the comment.

 

Oh, wow, yeah, totally agree I'd never intentionally clothesline a dog. Their spines aren't made of steel. As much as I don't generally care for shock collars, I would use on in a situation like this where really you are looking at such grave consequences. Or a citronella collar.

[blackacre]

Interestingly enough, I now see you made the identical comment on another thread. Apparently, the deer are also to be left to fend for themselves. Hey, they're only wild animals. God forbid we should take the smallest risk of injuring our precious pets.

And . . . you still haven't graced us with your solution for Hoku either.

A

[Laurae]

What about attaching a long line to a harness?

Andrea, would that achieve the same effect?

Northof49, would that mitigate the risk of injury?

[blackacre]

Yes, I think that would work, Laura. Good idea. The idea is not to cause pain but to shock the dog into believing that you can affect his behaviour even at a distance. The "long arm of the law", if you will.

A

[Shetlander]

What about attaching a long line to a harness?

Andrea, would that achieve the same effect?

Northof49, would that mitigate the risk of injury?

 

I'm neither of those people, but I'd still worry about jolting the dog that hard or if the dog flipped and took a bad fall. Quinn took a really rough fall a few months ago while running and several vertebrae were out of whack as well as his shoulder and one hip being affected. He showed no signs of lameness and a couple hours after that fall, I went out with him to play Frisbee. He was very excited to do so but quit after only a few catches. A couple of adjustments from the chiropractor got him back in good working order but it was still an injury that in the meantime affected him pretty significantly. The chiropractor is not one to blow things out of proportion and rarely wants you back for a follow-up visit, but he said Quinn had done a number on his spine, shoulder and to a lessor extent hip.

 

For that reason, if I need to, I'd go with a shock or citronella collar to stop a behavior as serious as chasing animals or cars (or people or whatever).

[hoku's mum]

Elizabeth, it's good to hear that you were able to 'reform' your Meg, I have high hopes that I too can have a reformed juvenile delinquent.

 

He has been on high lock-down, not out on his own at all, all play on the long line, leash walks, NILIF to the max. I have not seen a deer on the property for days, so have not been able to work with him with them, but have been doing lots of work on leave it, recall, and just our general relationship. But the change in him is pretty dramatic. He is very focused on me (he had been starting to blow me off on things in the past couple of weeks), very responsive to the recall training, amazing what really controlling all access to fun will do. I don't think that I have to worry about hurting him with the long line, because when he is on it, he seems to know that he can't take off. I do use it with a harness, and have since he was a pup. Last year with work, we got to the point of being able to walk through our neighbors pasture of horses and cattle, and he would just stick right with me and ignore them. We have not been walking there due to the vegetation in summer, fall and early winter are horrid foxtails and other nasty stickers, but I think it's time to get back out there again.

 

The hardest part is that it is just not my personality to be such a control freak with my dog, so it's a learning experience for both of us. I am a very responsible dog owner, but just have never had a dog that requires such a high level of management. I have never used a shock or citronella collar, and have no idea how to. I think something like that would need to be used under the supervision of a very knowledgeable person. So for now I think I will work with what I know and see how we do.