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Animal Planet show looking for problematic Border Collie behavior in New York


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LOL our neighbor's JRT makes my two look like well behaved saints. However, Max is their favorite play mate because when we play with Max it is not just mindless chasing and wrestling. These games require structure and rules. All the dogs respond very well to our direction, unless Max has to give up a toy, LOL. In hind sight, now that I know my dog can play in these ways (she loves HER Poco), I think the biggest problem she had at the dog park was that there was no objective and structure. Ceana plays games, she doesn't just play.

 

Sometimes I think it is easier to tell someone your dog is obsessive instead of explaining the true mentality, most people just don't understand why I "don't just leave the dogs at home a little longer," or why I "have to go here and do this and that and this" with my dogs. Chris and I have friends that are actually angry at us because they believe we spend too much time with our dogs, and I have another friend who is convinced that I spend so much time with them because I am unhealthily substituting my dogs for children. What they do not understand is that I have Border Collies, and by owning them I have a responcibility and a quality of life that I have promised them. (LOL I know I am preeching to the choir here)

Ok - to my point- I never thought about how detremental calling them obsessive could be, but I see your point. This is definetly something I will work on, sometimes it is unfortunetly so much easier to use harsh language to get people to leave you alone.

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Just a little FYI - I've been emailing a bit with Mr Dost (started before this thread). He's planning to be at the Edgeworth trial next weekend to film for his show and was looking for handlers/dogs to follow. That trial is certainly a good venue to show off working dogs!

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"Ceana plays games, she doesn't just play. "

 

Ohmigosh, what a PERFECT way to say it!!! Stormy also prefers games over just horsing around. He does like to chase other dogs for a while (there is a saluki we see frequently that just LOVES to oblige him, and another little mix breed that does also) but then he's ready to find someone that will play a game that involves thinking with him. He plays hide and seek with my mother in law's dog and the two of us find that to be just as entertaining for us as it seems to be for them.

 

Lori

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Guest SweetJordan
It's totally true that a badly adjusted, or badly bred, or both, Border Collie will fall into the most insane behaviors. But these, for one thing, are not unique to the Border Collie. They are just Bored Dog Behaviors. It's just that the Border Collie gets bored more easily.

 

Thank you Becca. For this I know to be true. The original post had me amused at first, then it made me angry. It just felt like a slap in the face.

 

To you Steve: The border Collie may have its tendancies, but first and fore most, it is the Worlds Premier Herding Dog. Ya want OCD?? Go check out the JRT, the labrador, the schnauzer, the min pin, how about the malinois, golden ret. just to name a few. Im with snickerkitten in saying,....

 

Sorry I can't help you out, Steve. My bc is perfectly behaved <*cough*> at all <*cough cough*> times and in all places <*snort <*snort cough

I don't agree w/ the lab having OCD.

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I don't agree w/ the lab having OCD.

Then I guess thats your pargoitive. I have no need or purpose to debate how anyone feels about thier dogs. As Ive stated in earlier posts, my experience comes from working with all types and all breeds of dogs, in many different situations and for many purposes,its my job, and how I make my living and have for 25 yrs. Certinly that in itself, does not make me an expert, however i feel that it has given me more opportunity throughout my career to observe dogs and see the different types of behaviors first hand, and to me, it seems as thougfh I deal with the same problems and same complaints regularly with a lot of the same breeds. Perhaps you have or have had a lab that didnt show OCD qualities, lucky you. I have met many folks, that havent had the same experiences woth the breed. As Im sure there are alot of BC owners that can say the same. I didnt carve my statement in stone, and anyone is free to feel and think as they please. Its not my plan to try to change the way a person feels about any particular dog or breed of dogs. Just my observations from a life time of handling them.

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Guest SweetJordan
I don't agree w/ the lab having OCD.

Then I guess thats your pargoitive. I have no need or purpose to debate how anyone feels about thier dogs. As Ive stated in earlier posts, my experience comes from working with all types and all breeds of dogs, in many different situations and for many purposes,its my job, and how I make my living and have for 25 yrs. Certinly that in itself, does not make me an expert, however i feel that it has given me more opportunity throughout my career to observe dogs and see the different types of behaviors first hand, and to me, it seems as thougfh I deal with the same problems and same complaints regularly with a lot of the same breeds. Perhaps you have or have had a lab that didnt show OCD qualities, lucky you. I have met many folks, that havent had the same experiences woth the breed. As Im sure there are alot of BC owners that can say the same. I didnt carve my statement in stone, and anyone is free to feel and think as they please. Its not my plan to try to change the way a person feels about any particular dog or breed of dogs. Just my observations from a life time of handling them.

Yes, I have lived w/ more than one lab and I currently have one. It is one thing to work w/ them as a groomer esp. in a situation where the dog tends to be scared and another to live w/ the dog. And the folks who complain about this quality w/ their lab probably don't provide their dog w/ enough exercise.

I think I'll ask his breeder about this one.

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I just hope that when they find their problematic BC for the show that they don't bring in someone like CM and instead get an actual expert like Patricia MCConnell, Nick Dodman, etc.

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Does OCD concerning a frisbee count? With frisbee in mouth, Maisie will follow me everywhere when we're outside... until I give her the 'Take a Break' phrase, then she'll go lay down someone.

 

She'll also sit and stare at my wife's bunnies for hours. I guess it's a way to burn off some of that energy... mental energy, not physical.

 

PA here, so I guess I'm out of the running...

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The last purebred labrador retriever I knew well belonged to a neighbor. He would spin when he got excited. Over the year that I knew him before we moved, this went from an occasional, somewhat humorous thing to the point where if he saw one of my dogs he would spin until he fell down. And then get back up and spin again.

 

I don't know of that's OCD, but it sure was mental.

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Hey - Just thought i'd provide a quick update. Steve and his crew were at the Edgeworth trial all day on saturday filming. They filmed David and Christine Henry, myself (with Billy and Spottie), and some others and seemed to be trying to do a good job and asked good questions. I don't know when it'll show up on tv, but i hope they'll do a good job portraying our breed. They should have gotten some lovely footage at the trial - it's a gorgeous setting and the sheep were "to die for" - even and a great challenge for the dogs and handlers alike.

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I don't agree w/ the lab having OCD.

Then I guess thats your pargoitive. I have no need or purpose to debate how anyone feels about thier dogs. As Ive stated in earlier posts, my experience comes from working with all types and all breeds of dogs, in many different situations and for many purposes,its my job, and how I make my living and have for 25 yrs. Certinly that in itself, does not make me an expert, however i feel that it has given me more opportunity throughout my career to observe dogs and see the different types of behaviors first hand, and to me, it seems as thougfh I deal with the same problems and same complaints regularly with a lot of the same breeds. Perhaps you have or have had a lab that didnt show OCD qualities, lucky you. I have met many folks, that havent had the same experiences woth the breed. As Im sure there are alot of BC owners that can say the same. I didnt carve my statement in stone, and anyone is free to feel and think as they please. Its not my plan to try to change the way a person feels about any particular dog or breed of dogs. Just my observations from a life time of handling them.

 

That's why in my post, I said that I didn't completely agree about the Schnauzer. After 10+yrs of rescue and living with dogs for 30+yrs, I've had a chance to be around a multiple amount of breeds, as well. I just expressed that I didn't think that they should be thrown into an OCD category, but, then again, I think more owners cause the OCD problems than the dogs do themselves, so I definitely didn't mean to offend in any way. :rolleyes: After reading this reply and seeing your reply to mine (sorry, I had somehow missed this thread for a little while), I thought I might should clarify myself. My comment was meant just to give another viewpoint...not a "carved in stone" or factual reply. :D

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Hey - Just thought i'd provide a quick update. Steve and his crew were at the Edgeworth trial all day on saturday filming. They filmed David and Christine Henry, myself (with Billy and Spottie), and some others and seemed to be trying to do a good job and asked good questions. I don't know when it'll show up on tv, but i hope they'll do a good job portraying our breed. They should have gotten some lovely footage at the trial - it's a gorgeous setting and the sheep were "to die for" - even and a great challenge for the dogs and handlers alike.

 

I feel they asked a lot of good questions as well. A big congrats to Robin and Spottie on their win.... even though they took away Tweed's first Open win... :rolleyes:. Tweed said Spottie is getting old and she deserved it! :D

 

I think the program is planned to air in August 2008. Steve is going to e-mail us when it is scheduled, so I can post it when we find out.

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That's why in my post, I said that I didn't completely agree about the Schnauzer. After 10+yrs of rescue and living with dogs for 30+yrs, I've had a chance to be around a multiple amount of breeds, as well. I just expressed that I didn't think that they should be thrown into an OCD category, but, then again, I think more owners cause the OCD problems than the dogs do themselves, so I definitely didn't mean to offend in any way. After reading this reply and seeing your reply to mine (sorry, I had somehow missed this thread for a little while), I thought I might should clarify myself. My comment was meant just to give another viewpoint...not a "carved in stone" or factual reply.

 

No offence taken. Not only have I been a Master Groomer, certified by NDGAA for 25 yrs, I have also worked for many years training and working with behavior modification for many breeds of dogs, so my experience doesnt lie in grooming alone. Thats just the part that brings home the steady paycheck. Yes, I believe you are right, in, that in most cases, owners do cause a lot of the problems themselves, but, dogs that have higher drives, can become effected more easily and there are some breeds I see effected by owner inflicted OCD"s more than others. In labs, you will see certin strains of dogs, certin types of breeding, that tend to be more easily effected. Gundogs, with higher drives, less stimulation, not enough work, or interaction are amoung the first that came to mind. Licking OCD"s, self mutilation, spinning, as Bill described, a couple of dogs Ive seen, even have OCD"s about thier humans, just to name a few. Mostly preventable, but it happens.

 

I think I'll ask his breeder about this one.

 

That would be what I would do. But remember, a breeder who sells you a dog, is first their breeder, and probably isnt going to speak badly of their breed of choice, or their breeding, especially if they want you to buy another from them, or have you tell all your friends what a great dog you got from so and so. So, going back to the breeder can go one of two ways. They'll either tell you the truth, or tell you what you want to hear. Depends on their motivations and your relationship with them.

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I just hope that when they find their problematic BC for the show that they don't bring in someone like CM and instead get an actual expert like Patricia MCConnell, Nick Dodman, etc.

I wasn't following this thread, but I just ran across some info on Dodman's current effort to find a genetic basis for (the tendency to develop) OCD and thought some of you might be interested. Dodman mentions here that he was interviewed recently by CBS about his work with OCD in dogs. You can view the CBS story here (it aired last October).

 

I'd be really surprised if this Yost guy wasn't already familiar with the CBS story, but if anyone is still corresponding with him, you might mention it just in case.

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Darci, that makes perfect sense, especially the part where people will either tell you the truth or what you want to hear. Sadly, in my area, it seems like I see more of the "what you want to hear". That's really cool about you being a Master Groomer. I've worked in 2 grooming shops, and can groom to an extent, but never to that level. :rolleyes: I always preferred the challenging cases when I worked in rescue, and we dealt with practically everything from the tiny Chihuahua up to GSDs, Dobermans, Wolf Hybrids, etc. My favorites were always the herding dogs. I guess I never really saw any of them with an "OCD", though, because they were from bad situations, so I saw their problems as problems that were previous owner inflicted. I do miss the rescue work that I did, but I had to cut back (at least on fostering) for awhile due to having a child. I try to keep up with what's going on around here, and get involved when I can. Behavior is definitely an area that I'm trying to study more on. I have hands on experience with many issues, but I still learn something new everyday. :D

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and can groom to an extent, but never to that level

 

Just keep at it, and you;ll get there. All it takes is practice, patience and perserverence.( oh, and ya kinda gotta like dogs too)

 

but I still learn something new everyday

 

Me too! Everyday! Aint it a wonderment!

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Just keep at it, and you;ll get there. All it takes is practice, patience and perserverence.( oh, and ya kinda gotta like dogs too)

Thanks! I get my practice with Koty, our Schnauzer, but the others don't get the clipping. Of course, it's an all day job to do baths! Between shampooing, anal glands, conditioning, drying, brushing, nails, etc., you can imagine. :rolleyes:

 

Me too! Everyday! Aint it a wonderment!

Yes, it is. I don't think anyone will ever know everything there is to know about our beloved 4-legged companions, but that's part of the fun. :D

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Guest SweetJordan
But remember, a breeder who sells you a dog, is first their breeder, and probably isnt going to speak badly of their breed of choice, or their breeding, especially if they want you to buy another from them, or have you tell all your friends what a great dog you got from so and so. So, going back to the breeder can go one of two ways. They'll either tell you the truth, or tell you what you want to hear. Depends on their motivations and your relationship with them.

I haven't asked her about it, I forgot to the last time we spoke. But my lab's breeder has become a friend of mine and she's pretty honest. I think she would rather tell people the prons and cons of owning a lab as it's more of a gurantee that the dog will find a loving permanent home the first time around. I know you can only do so much w/ an application, but she has the most extensive one I have seen anywhere. If you adopt/buy one of her dogs she keeps in touch and you become apart of her family. I really don't have to tell people what a great dog I got as I never go around bragging about such things. Many people do comment on how nice of a dog he is, but I do respond by saying that I spent a lot of time training and socializing him, and I put in the time to provide him w/ the exercise he needs on a daily basis. I don't want people to think he just came out of a box that way. I have thought about getting another from her but I'm so addicted to BCs now that I probably won't. But never say never.

 

But you make a good point. And many people don't bother to train their dog and they certainly don't provide enough exercise so I can see where this can create problems w/ dogs not prone to OCD and to others who may be more likely to develop it. I do consider some obsessive behavior in a bred like the border collie to be a plus. Because I think that some of the obsessive behavior is what makes them so great at what they do. Though I think some OCD is always going to be neg. For example if the dog just turns and turns around in circles for example that's probably a concern. Whereas w/ say Riley her obsessive behavior revolves around working or what she preceives to be working. It allows her to keep at a task w/ out being distracted and she's able to retain her focus. Her stock trainer even commented that she was a bit obsessive, then proceeded to say that is good. And she's turns off nicely, though I'd probably have a hard time if she were around sheep all the time.

 

Anyway, was just saying that I haven't seen OCD in my lab or any of the other ones that I have lived w/. Though I do credit myself for taking the time to do things 'right' which is no guarantee but it certainly makes a positive outcome more likely. And going back and pondering what you said combined w/ other factors it makes sense. I didn't take offense either and hope you didn't. I was just sharing my view point and experience which apparently didn't necessarily correspond w/ yours.

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