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I apologize Eileen if this is in the wrong section, but didn't know where to put it.

 

Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Mike Ryan & Kathy Brunetto

 

How did you meet them?

At an ASCA trial- Mike was the judge and we found out we lived 2 miles from each other. We quickly became friends as he had BC's also.

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

No- We traded sheep. We worked his and Kathy's sheep at our different fields and "switched" things a bit. We were friends and helped each other.

Did you ever pay?

Nope, never. Not with buddies. Don Helsley & I would have "play days", but I did pay for Pat. Plus Clinics!

ARE you currently working sheep?

Sadly no but I saw a pasture for rent 2 blocks away with a covering- yeee haw!!!

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Ted and Janna Ondrak.

 

How did you meet them?

I don't remember exactly, but I saw something about instinct testing with their ranch info on it, and I went up to test one of my dogs..

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

I am not sure what you're asking here, but our relationship developed into a mutually respectful friendship, however, I was (and am) a novice and looked to them for guidance, and appreciated everything they offered me.

 

Did you ever pay?

What an odd question. Of course! For every lesson! If I didn't pay for my lessons, I was working my tail off at the ranch in exchange. Any time Alasdair or Scott, etc. came into town, I gladly paid through the nose for private lessons or clinics or whatever. And I always offered to help my trainers with their demos at the Scottish Festivals, etc., and never asked for a dime in return. I would never expect NOT to pay. They had sheep, and I didn't. I would always want to help with the upkeep of the ranch so that I would continue to have a place to learn and practice. I would never expect anyone with years of expertise to turn around and give me their knowledge for free. I pay trainers when I go train with them, no matter who they are. It seems to me to be a kick in the face not to do so. And now that I have sheep, I am seeing that my buddies feel the same way I did. When they come here to practice, they leave a few bucks in the jar on the way out. Sure makes it easier when it comes time to go buy hay or vaccines or fence posts, etc.

 

ARE you currently working sheep?

Yes, I own a small mixed flock on a couple of acres, and I feel blessed that I am able to share it with some of my closest friends.

 

Jodi

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

Primarily Mary Brighoff along with Cheryl Jagger-Williams

 

How did you meet them?

I stopped by Nancy Starkey's farm (it was on my commuting route) while she was working her dogs and she told me about a Cheryl Jagger-Williams clinic at Mary Brighoff's farm. The clinic was canceled and I kept trying to set-up a lesson with Mary (the weather was poor that winter). Eventually we went to out first lesson and I was instantly hooked.

 

Did the relationship continue?

Yes, we're very good friends

 

Did you ever pay?

Yes, money and then chores

 

Are you currently working sheep?

Yes

[added later] Like Robin I give lessons to help novices get started, one of the ways I try to give back.

 

Mark

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

Carol Calhoun

 

How did you meet them?

I've told this story before, but here it is again. I had one rescue border collie, Willow, and had recently been convinced to take another with some issues. The latter dog had some good breeding in his pedigree, and although he himself was likely backyard bred, the good stuff started with his parents. When I mentioned that to the rescuer I had picked Willow up from (not her foster mom), she suggested I take Farleigh to Carol, who lived a little over an hour away, and see if he had any talent. It turned out that Farleigh had talent but didn't want a human in the picture, but Willow was a natural, so I started training Willow with Carol. A few months later I got Boy from Carol and started trialing with the two dogs. The funny thing is that I really do not like making "cold calls" on folks and so almost didn't follow through on the rescuer's suggestion. Now I'm glad I did.

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

I trained under Carol for two or three years at least and we became friends. I have since moved to another part of the state so see Carol only occasionally at trials. I give her full credit for my great start in this.

 

Did you ever pay?

Yes, I paid for lessons. The way Carol had it set up, if you paid for a lesson, you could come work your dog for free at other times of the week. I took full advantage of that, and was probably one of the only ones who was there almost daily, but I also helped with sheep and dog chores around the place, etc.

 

ARE you currently working sheep?

Yes. I have my own wool flock now (plus a few hair sheep that belong to a friend) and I quite enjoy the sheep raising part of things. I don't work my dogs as often as a should (aside from chores), and I do like having folks come over to work dogs (fun day type stuff).

 

J.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

The first person I worked with in Oregon was not actually very helpful. Granted, Sophie was not the most talented dog in the world, but he worked her and never really explained much about what they were doing. I was completely clueless and very intimidated by him. We had an "accident" on the field that resulted in Sophie having a seizure, and that was the end of my association with him. Since moving to Colorado, I've worked a lot with Claudia Nelson, Cathy Balliu, Bill Money, Nancy Penley, Lisa Webb, and Elaine Wood. All of these people have been very influential in my stockdog education.

 

How did you meet them?

I met all the Colorado folks through our local stockdog club.

 

Did the relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

I consider all of these people friends, though I am closer to some. It's still a trainer/newbie relationship with regard to the dogs (as I'm still a novice and all of these folks are open handlers), but a more equal friendship otherwise.

 

Did you ever pay?

I've paid/still pay some of these folks.

 

Are you currently working sheep?

Yes. I don't have sheep of my own, unfortunately, but I try to work my dogs at least twice a week.

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Who Helped you get into to really working dogs?

Noel Skinner. An old hand that handled and trained and treated working collies as if they were a tool, and not so much a partner. I bought my first collie from a litter of his in 1995, and started training with him on and off a yr later. He had a lot of knowledge, but his style of training a novice wasnt the best. I admired him deeply for the start and some great dogs I got from him, and still do today, but it was my introduction to the Utah Stockdog Association in 2000 that I really started to learn, not just training, but that it was ok to treat your dog as a friend and a partner, and dare I say a pet? and still have a wonderful working dog. That you didnt have to lock them up and only take them out to work. Im am so grateful that my first dog was so forgiving. There are a number of hands in the USA that were very kind and helpful, and a few that started with him the same as I did, and understood how I had to come having the ideas I had. They quickly went about helping me and changing all that. A lady I met named Libby Nieder was a mentor of mine through the club, and I will always remember her kindness, and wonderful instruction when ever I attended a work day. Bev Lambert has been a person for me to try to aspire to, and she was one that I picked out early on, watching. Not just for her way of working with her dogs, but her sportsman ship as well. Through watching her and her dogs at Soldier Hollow, Meerker, and the Bluegrass, over the years, she has repetedly given me inspiration, and understanding. Though Ive never had more than a 3 minuet conversation with her at various times when Ive met her, I dont think you have to have a realationship with some one to learn from them.

How did you meet them?

I met Noel through a litter of pups that he had for sale. I had already tried working with Aussies, and Heelers, and they werent what I was looking for in a working dog, so I answered an ad for working bred pups ( BC's) that I had heard about through a friend.

Did the relationship continue trainer/newbie?

Yes, I trained periodically with him over the course of a ten yr span. Sporadically at times, as I moved around, But whenever I was in his area, I always stopped in about once a month to work with him. I liked the guy, no matter his style, he was a mountain of experience and knowledge, and I was a sponge. Ive moved far from him now, and miss him still today.

Did you ever pay?

Absolutly. I never did think he charged me enough, and always asked first, after a work, "what do I owe ya? and second, after he would tell me, "Are you sure?" He was a gruff old fella, not big on words or praise, but he was one of those old handlers that always had time for me. I like to think, though I'll never really know fer sure, that he liked me. I will always appreciate him for the time he spent, as I got the feeling he wasnt always so helpful to other folks.

Are you currently working sheep?

Yes, I have a small herd of St. Croix/ Katahdin hair sheep, and a few goats and I try to get out every day and do a bit of work, at least, if not some training. Me nor my dogs could go a day, (weather permitting) without having some sort of contact with the sheep, be it just doing chores, ( which can turn into a training session real quick on any given day,) or acually going in with a plan for training.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

I'll keep the name of the first person i went to for lessons to myself - it wasn't the greatest start. :rolleyes: The person who actually helped me the most when i was first starting out was another novice - Lauren Seabolt. She set up group lessons with Kent Kuykendall and kept me in the loop of what was going on here and there. Kent ended up being my first real mentor and i still give him great credit for my beginning education. Later on i took lessons with Alasdair MacRae on a regular basis and he surely helped me with trialing.

 

How did you meet them?

I met Lauren through the original bad trainer (I shouldn't say bad, she just wasn't qualified to be giving lessons really, too inexperienced herself). I can't remember if Lauren was taking lessons with the bad trainer or just around because there was a little all breed herding club as well. Lauren and I did end up with littermate puppies - along with Joan Stout. Bad trainer or not, i made some lifelong, wonderful friends there!

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

With Kent - yes though i almost never see him since he's not trialing any more. It of course evolved into being more of friendship and he hasn't done lessons in a long while now.

 

Did you ever pay?

Yep, of course.

 

ARE you currently working sheep?

Yep. And talk about full circle - now, 15 years later, I give lessons myself and try to help beginners when i can.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Robin said "I'll keep the name of the first person i went to for lessons to myself - it wasn't the greatest start. The person who actually helped me the most when i was first starting out was another novice - Lauren Seabolt. She set up group lessons with Kent Kuykendall and kept me in the loop of what was going on here and there. Kent ended up being my first real mentor and i still give him great credit for my beginning education. Later on i took lessons with Alasdair MacRae on a regular basis and he surely helped me with trialing."

 

Me, too...

 

How did you meet them?

 

Robin said "I met Lauren through the original bad trainer (I shouldn't say bad, she just wasn't qualified to be giving lessons really, too inexperienced herself). I can't remember if Lauren was taking lessons with the bad trainer or just around because there was a little all breed herding club as well. Lauren and I did end up with littermate puppies - along with Joan Stout. Bad trainer or not, i made some lifelong, wonderful friends there!"

 

Me, too... is there a pattern developing here?????

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

Robin said "With Kent - yes though i almost never see him since he's not trialing any more. It of course evolved into being more of friendship and he hasn't done lessons in a long while now."

 

Me, too...

 

Did you ever pay?

 

Robin said... "Yep, of course."

 

Me, too...

 

ARE you currently working sheep?

 

Robin said "Yep. And talk about full circle - now, 15 years later, I give lessons myself and try to help beginners when i can."

 

Me, too... while I do welcome beginners, I don't really give lessons much, but do like to see beginners come out and work their dogs.

 

And, I want to tell my favorite Mick -- our first Border Collie -- story. I "stole" Mick from my wife, was doing agility and some stock work with him, I have some videos of our early work on sheep and it was REALLY rockin' and rollin'. We were kicking whatever in agility, but crashing and burning in novice/novice runs.

 

One day I was at another friend's place working sheep and afterwards he and I were talking, still out on the field, and Mick was kinda floating around, keeping the sheep bunched up close to us. I told my friend that I was thinking about stopping the sheep work and concentrating on agility.

 

He asked "How old is your dog and how many times has he seen sheep?"

 

I said he was about 2 1/2 years old and we'd worked sheep 30, maybe 40 times.

 

His IMMEDIATE response was "Heck, you've only got two months of training on a three year old dog, y'all are doing great!

 

When I got home I called my agility instructor and told her we were never going back.

 

And the rest is, well, I'm not sure about "history", but it sure has been fun!

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

I would have to say it is Louise Tackaberry. I met her during her trial shortly after I had moved back to Canada. I had already starting herding but like robin my first trainer was well...nevermind. My first taste of a good trainer was Jana Ondryk, she judged a trial in Pennsylvania right before I moved back north. From Louise I met Andrea deKennedy who introduced me to Sam Furman (and now I have Libby) and Robin French. Louise also forced me, yes forced me...to take a lesson with Aladair Macrae (and I cried) and am now taking lessons and clinics with Scott Glen.

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

I see Louise all the time, she works at my place and I over at hers. It has extended way beyond the trainer/newbie...she is one of my best friends

 

 

Did you ever pay?

 

I don't think so...not in money....sweat equity...mostly my husbands sweat equity. I take care of her farm and dogs when she goes away or my husband does if Louise, Janet and I are travelling together

 

 

ARE you currently working sheep?

 

Not right now, I'm on the computer...kidding...we have about 150 ewes, about 110 lambs left to market from last year...4 brand spanken new lambs (didn't get the ram lambs out of the flock soon enough); the snow and frozen crust is making it difficult but if we didn't practice in the snow we'd miss out on 4 months of practicing....

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Variety of people. In the beginning I took some lessons from Steve Clendenin and attended a Jack Knox clinic but mostly worked on my own and--no reflection on either trainer--wasn't progressing very well. What got me jump started was a few lessons with Kent Kuykendall who explained things in a way I could apply and raised my expectations of my dog's capabilities. Since then Robin has helped me some, and I try to listen to other handlers.

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

No.

 

Did you ever pay?

 

Yes.

 

Are you currently working sheep?

 

Yes. My wife and I raise Tunis though our numbers are way down because of the draught. Also work my dogs on Julie's sheep on a fairly regular basis.

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I would never expect anyone with years of expertise to turn around and give me their knowledge for free. I pay trainers when I go train with them, no matter who they are. It seems to me to be a kick in the face not to do so.

 

That's kinda strong. Nowadays the idea of paid trainers is the norm, but that wasn't so much true 15 or 20 years ago. At that time only a handful of people at most, nationwide, expected to make money from helping people to learn how to train and handle their dogs. It was commonplace then for experienced dog trainers to mentor others for free or for helping out with the sheep, without a thought of charging for it. For example, I don't recall any mention by Bruce Fogt of his paying Lewie Pence anything for all the help he recounts in Lessons From a Stockdog. Of course there wasn't a big market for that kind of training and advice then. The idea that it was appropriate to "give lessons" and charge for them grew as the market grew, and now there's probably very few high-level dog folks who would just say, "Why don't you bring that dog over one day next week and let's see if we can get him going right," and not expect to be paid.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Steve Clendenin.

 

How did you meet them?

 

I had a wee sheep farm and a really difficult dog, and not a clue, and wandered around on the fringes of the local sheepdog community for ages, before (dang, I think it was Robin?) someone invited me to a clinic put together by the local ACK BC club (just forming, in fact it was literally their first meeting if I'm not mistaken). It was with Steve Clendenin. That was the first time I felt like Ben and I had it together. I sure as heck wish I had not been so shy and had asked for more help after that. I think I did call him and he had a major health crisis for several months after, and then I felt like he wouldn't know me from Adam, you know.

 

Did the relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

It took a while but I ended up back working with him again after I got another dog with a good bit of talent and a big giant motor that I had no idea what to do with.

 

I could echo a lot of what Darci said. In some ways the fact that I stuck with him, and he with me, was problematic because we did not communicate well and he had a very old-time approach to training that I was constantly having to "scale back" to my own tastes. However, his patience with me went a really long way - he broke me in on matters of sheep, farming, working dogs, and other places where my pathetic ignorance would rub other trainers wrong.

 

So in that way he was the worthiest of mentors and I still miss him immensely - his advice in farming, anything having to do with machinery, and sometimes just having someone to share a good laugh about the dogs. He, unlike Darci's friend, did appreciate the value of a dog as a companion (how many folks know that his first two Border Collies were trained to play frisbee?), so he didn't mind my chattering about such inanities as flyball and even encouraged me to train two of my working dogs in the sport to bolster their confidence.

 

Did you ever pay?

 

This is going to sound really weird, but a lot of people here will nod and smile at this, knowing him. I had to practically beg Steve to take money - every stinkin' time! But he would have been so offended if I didn't offer him money . . . :rolleyes: He put a very low value on his time, however. Later I simply traded fresh sheep for time or training. He ran hair sheep and appreciated having access to my strange range-flock-descended sheep.

 

And more importantly, he did something that I now understand is terribly difficult to do. He allowed me to come "help" him with jobs on the farm - knowing very well that it would take up to four times as long to do anything with my help, as without. I learned a ton, and I hope that at the end I actually was something of a help there.

 

My second stage has been defined by working with Jack Knox - mostly realizing the error of my ways on several points. My new "farm mentor" is Karen Hart (and her husband) - and she's helped fill in a lot of holes in my understanding of the dogs, too.

 

And my most recent stage is being guided by Robin French. I think I've progressed more under her in just a few months, than in the previous ten years. The big difference is her ability to communicate to me in a way I understand.

 

Are you currently working sheep?

 

Yup. I've scaled my flock back hugely (darn drought), but I've raised sheep since 1997. I've always been more interested in the sheep side of things, so having to go so small on the sheep is disappointing, but I'm taking the opportunity to expand my training skills. I've still got plenty of sheep to work, and a couple of terrific dogs to work (and maybe one more, too), and look forward to continuing my journey next year!

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That's kinda strong. Nowadays the idea of paid trainers is the norm, but that wasn't so much true 15 or 20 years ago. At that time only a handful of people at most, nationwide, expected to make money from helping people to learn how to train and handle their dogs. It was commonplace then for experienced dog trainers to mentor others for free or for helping out with the sheep, without a thought of charging for it. For example, I don't recall any mention by Bruce Fogt of his paying Lewie Pence anything for all the help he recounts in Lessons From a Stockdog. Of course there wasn't a big market for that kind of training and advice then. The idea that it was appropriate to "give lessons" and charge for them grew as the market grew, and now there's probably very few high-level dog folks who would just say, "Why don't you bring that dog over one day next week and let's see if we can get him going right," and not expect to be paid.

Actually, that was very true. When Kathy and I would have our "play days" every Wed. once I offered her money and got kind of offended. She said "I thought we were friends". So, I never offered again. We always went out to brunch first and took turns paying and since we traded her place, mine and Mike's, it was nice for everyone involved to use different sheep in a different field with their dogs. Kind of a win/win situation. Now that I don't have land, I wouldn't expect a lesson for free.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Dodie Green, Robin Penand, Sam Furman

 

How did you meet them?

 

I had admired Dodie's handling when I went to trials in Arizona as a spectator.

That's when the bug bit me and I started taking lessons from her.

Later, Robin P. movend to Arizona and I worked with her too.

After moving to Virginia I met Sam Furman and worked with her too.

 

 

Did the relationship continue?

 

I still admire Dodie and Robin, they both really know a dog's mind. I would still

like to work with them but they are all the way across the U.S.

I can't wait to work with Sam again when my pup is old enough. She's also very

clever with a dog. My other dog is old now.

 

Did you ever pay?

 

Yes! This is how they make their living. It's worth every penny too.

 

ARE you currently working sheep?

 

I have a small flock and use my older dog daily to do chores and such.

Hopefully with the pup I will be able to someday trial.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

 

In the beginning I met a ( now) friend of mine, Patsy Galati , through two other Open handler friends of mine Al and Ginger Zuppan. Patsy had a sheep co-op where I took my soon to be 11 year old ( tomorrow is her 11th b'day) bc Kate. I also took some lessons with Englishman John Atkinson when he came over our way. I got the bug but not enough to get a second dog for some years.

 

 

I started taking lessons from Suzy Applegate with Kate, went to watch a ton of Open trials over the next 3-4 years, then decided I wanted a trial dog for myself. . Being as a trained dog was a big chunk of $ ( not that they shouldn't be , but not in my budget) from anyone I asked, I decided to go about it like I do the horses, raise my own. So I put my name on a list with Suzy for a puppy out of her imported bitch and by her stud dog. Named her Lyn, raised her up , put her in training and Suzy trialed her for her nursery year. I have not regretted my decision to go this route for a moment. The money probably comes out the same as buying a trained dog, but the payments were less painful for me and I got back a fully trained dog. The only other teacher I have worked with is Alun Jones from Wales. He came recently to judge a double lift trial near, me, so I scribed for the three days and attended his clinic with Lyn. It worked out well on all counts, especially as his and Suzy's ideas run very parallel. Alun is so very helpful . I would recommend him to anyone wanting to attend a good clinic. Since the 06 Nursery Finals I have had Lyn home and have taken lessons weekly with Suzy. Excellent teacher/trainer.

 

How did you meet them?

 

 

Answered above.

 

 

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

I paid for all of the above, lesson/training. Worth every dime.

 

 

 

Are you currently working sheep?

 

 

Yes, I have a small flock of about 30 head ( sold about the same amount this year as we got up to 65 or so). They live at my ranch and I partner on the sheep with a friend who has four bc's. We have 1000 plus acres out my side gate to work on.

 

 

I started trialing Lyn this year , in the Pro/Novice. Fortunately Lyn does not care that I am holding her back! I absolutely am loving my lessons and the trialing. It is challenging and fun at the same

time.

 

 

Carolyn

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We have had livestock of one form or another since 1975, but cattle (either dairy heifers, stockers, or cow/calf) since 1980. We got our first working dog to help with cattle in 1985, an Aussie. He was followed by a Border Collie/Aussie cross and then another Aussie. We were strictly working on our own and the dogs were trained "on the job" with minimal finesse but providing some much-needed usefulness.

 

Once the kids were grown, I realized that I was the only one that Ed was "directing" to help with cattle jobs and that I needed a real working dog with ability and training. I saw Border Collies at several demos but one couple put on a demo that really made an impression on me, showing me what a dog could really do to help, and I went to them to get a pup.

 

Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

The breeder of two of my dogs encouraged me. I won't say I ever had a "mentor" but I'm extremely grateful to several fine people who have encouraged, supported, advised, and sometimes instructed me.

 

Mark and Renee Billadeau, Elvin Kopp, Jack Knox, Sam Furman, and Scott Glen are all folks who have given me a lesson or two (or more) but, maybe more than lessons, have been encouraging and honest enough to tell me what I didn't want to hear when I really needed to hear it.

 

How did you meet them?

 

What actually got me started in training was finding about a clinic at John Lavelle's in Ohio. I found out about it on Littlehats on a Tuesday night, and was on my way to it that Friday morning at 5 am. It was a terrific first training experience for myself and my dog.

 

I met Mark and Renee at a trial, I think. They sent me on to a trainer who would instruct me and my friend, who has an Aussie (as they don't work with other breeds). I met Sam through the boards, and helped at several of her trials, and took a couple of lessons from both her and from Scott Glen at Sam's farm.

 

Julie Poudrier from these boards passed my name on to Rebecca when she was hosting a Jack Knox clinic, and I've since been to several of his excellent clinics. She's been a source of terrific advice, lots of encouragement, and plain speaking when I've needed it (which has been often).

 

John Lavelle has hosted several Elvin Kopp clinics in the last year and I have been extremely grateful to be able to attend them. He has provided outstanding clinics in an area (about three hours from me) that has little to offer in the way of training otherwise.

 

Things come full circle, I guess, as I now am going to Renee once a month for lessons, and enjoying them (and learning from them) very much. We are working and struggling to overcome a number of my own shortcomings and poor habits that both my dog and I have developed as I have worked a lot on our own here on the farm since I haven't been able to afford anything but infrequent instruction.

 

Did The relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

Yes, in general, as I am still training with Renee (with occasional help from Mark) and Elvin when I can. I count Julie, Becca, John, and Sam as friends, as well as others including Robin French, who have always been so welcoming, helpful, and encouraging.

 

Did you ever pay?

 

Always and gratefully. But I would be happy to work off instruction if the trainer was interested in that, also.

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Who helped you get into really working your dogs?

 

Jeanne Weaver.

 

How did you meet them?

 

I meet Jeanne at a demo about six years ago but had emailed her at a earlier date about starting lessons. I ran into her on a total whim, I didn't know it was her doing the demo.

 

Did the relationship continue-trainer/newbie?

 

Yes, I still do lessons every week when I can.

 

Did you ever pay?

 

If chores and farm sitting count, then yes.

 

Are you currently working sheep?

 

Yes, once a week when I can.

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