Guest jackieandryan Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Rylee just turned 4 months old. She is doing well with basic commands and great with house training and crate training. But she snaps at certain people. Jackie had friends over the other night and she basically attacked one of them. I wasn't around and don't know the complete details. My only ideas so far would be to put her in the other room when people come inside at first and then bring her out on a leash until she is able to socialize with everyone properly. She seems to be a very protective dog. We try to have her around as many people and other dogs as possible, and it is only certain people she doesn't like. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 At four months (or at any age for that matter) being protective is not a license to use teeth. Though I haven't seen her, I would be willing to bet that this is fear aggression. Fear aggression is serious. Being that she "attacked" someone- you have a liability on your hands. I would look very carefully at her for signs of impending acting out- head down, hackles up, tail between legs, and growling. You can't force a fearful dog to like people- it takes de-sensitization, and that takes a good investment of time and consistency. Until and unless you have this under control, you can't allow her to run up to people and growl/bite. Yelling will only make it worse. Keep her on a leash and teach her to down when you ask, and to stay in her place when people come over. Make sure you tell people to ignore her- too many people think that if it is a scared dog, they need to coddle/pet it, when that is the worst thing they can do. There is lots more to add here, but I am sure others will chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 At four months (or at any age for that matter) being protective is not a license to use teeth. Though I haven't seen her, I would be willing to bet that this is fear aggression. Fear aggression is serious. Being that she "attacked" someone- you have a liability on your hands. I agree that this sounds like fear agression rather than being protective, especially at 4 months old. Please check into trainers or behaviorists for someone to help you through this issue. There are a number of books that may be helpful such as Fiesty Fido, Fight!, and Click to Calm. The sooner you start working on this, the less ingrained the behavior will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackieandryan Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 At four months (or at any age for that matter) being protective is not a license to use teeth. Though I haven't seen her, I would be willing to bet that this is fear aggression. Fear aggression is serious. Being that she "attacked" someone- you have a liability on your hands. I would look very carefully at her for signs of impending acting out- head down, hackles up, tail between legs, and growling. You can't force a fearful dog to like people- it takes de-sensitization, and that takes a good investment of time and consistency. Until and unless you have this under control, you can't allow her to run up to people and growl/bite. Yelling will only make it worse. Keep her on a leash and teach her to down when you ask, and to stay in her place when people come over. Make sure you tell people to ignore her- too many people think that if it is a scared dog, they need to coddle/pet it, when that is the worst thing they can do. There is lots more to add here, but I am sure others will chime in. It's most certainly fear aggression. There is no doubt in my mind. What about crating her in the middle of the room while people are in the house? She loves her crate. It would give her an opportunity to feel safe while people are over. She would also be able to see everything that is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 I would also add to the recommended reading list Patricia McConnell's "The Cautious Canine" which is a short manual that provides a step by step program for counter-conditioning a fearful or fear aggressive dog. When I sought hlep from a vet/behaviorist for Boo, the first thing she instructed me to work on was Karen Overall's "Protocol for Relaxation". And I've found this website was most useful in my search for information: http://www.k9aggression.com/ Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Please consult a veterinary behaviorist. Now is your best chance to treat this problem, while she is still young. You've gotten some good advice here, but it isn't enough. You need professional help from someone who is compassionate and knows what he or she is doing. If you rely on casual advice from internet boards and well-meaning strangers you are likely to do more harm than good to your pup. I have a fearful dog who has come a very, very long way with the help of a veterinary behaviorist. I often wish I had gotten him as a pup (he was 16 months old) and had the opportunity to work with him from a young age. I don't think he would have been "cured" (because I believe there is a biological basis to problems like this in dogs) but he would be a lot closer to being normal. Don't despair. If you get qualified help and are dedicated and diligent, you should do pretty well. Your regular vet should be able to refer you to a behaviorist, or you can contact the nearest vet school for a referral, or your vet could consult long-distance with a behaviorist if there isn't one in your area. There is a list of certified vet behaviorists here: list of veterinary behaviorists Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Four months is a tricky age for Border Collies. Find a professional who understands the principles of setting boundaries without force. And, it would be good if you'd start work with her immediately on establishing your leadership. The books and pamphlets mentioned earlier are an excellent place to start. The most important thing for a dog with fearful behavior to learn is, she can trust you to make the decisions. So, teach her "watch me" and "sit" and ask for it immediately before going into any new situation. Soon those behaviors will replace the aggression, or it should for the most part. Good luck! I started my journey in dog training with a severely fear aggressive girl. We were eventually able to do flyball and disc dog, train in agility and obedience, and herding, with her completely ignoring all her worst triggers. Outside the "work" context was still tricky and eventually that part of it cost her her home here (she drew blood twice on my preschool son's face), but all that training paid off (and saved her life) and she's still able to work in a highly structured environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 I just wanted to second Melanie's recommendation about seeking **qualified** professional help when you're in over your head, but also add, if you can familiarize yourself with some of the counter-conditioning methods and behavior modification techniques outlined in the suggested reading materials it will put you in a better position to be aware of triggers and interpret the body language your pup is using to tell you how she feels about things. Another great book for understanding how dogs reveal how they see things is "The Other End of the Leash" also by Patricia McConnell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky&Albery Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 If you go to someone who calls themselves a "trainer" make sure they have had ample education is aggression related issues. You may find "trainers" know how to teach people, to teach there pets how to do obedience skills and not how to diagnose and provided treatment plans. Lets compare it to a human Childs educational teacher, and a psychologist. Furthermore, Dont wait any amount of time to get this taken care of. Its not only scary for you, its scary for your puppy to be this nervous around strangers. I would try the below web pages and search for my a behaviorist. http://www.animalbehaviorcounselors.org/ and http://www.iaabc.org/ Good luck! Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 As far as crating in the room, I wouldn't.... not yet. Pushing a pup over threshold will make matters worse.. Here is another good site for you: http://www.fearfuldogs.com Take a close look at 'Triggers and Tresholds' Some youngsters go through a second fear period too but , even so, one has to be aware of the triggers and not 'flooding' a dog... You can end up with a dog that 'MAY' tolerate up to a point and lashes out in self defense or may lash out from the getgo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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