Stopping short

[Shoofly]

Hey Bev -

 

Hope you get some good questions to answer.

 

Here's a fairly boring one. One of my dogs is a habitual short stopper on the outrun at trials (not at home, of course). Her father did the same thing and i know it's an eye thing. She wants to control the sheep from taking off and does it with their eye. She's a very good outrunner, checking and kicking, right up to about 10:00 or so, and has found sheep up to a mile away for me - very good method there. It's very hard to flank her over at trials when she pulls up. Do you have any exercises that i could be doing at home to free her up when we get to trials? I've been trying a couple of things this summer/fall that seem to be helping a bit, but am looking for more ideas.

 

Thanks!

[Lambert]

Hope you get some good questions to answer.

 

Here's a fairly boring one. One of my dogs is a habitual short stopper on the outrun at trials (not at home, of course). Her father did the same thing and i know it's an eye thing. She wants to control the sheep from taking off and does it with their eye. She's a very good outrunner, checking and kicking, right up to about 10:00 or so, and has found sheep up to a mile away for me - very good method there. It's very hard to flank her over at trials when she pulls up. Do you have any exercises that i could be doing at home to free her up when we get to trials? I've been trying a couple of things this summer/fall that seem to be helping a bit, but am looking for more ideas.

 

 

The obvious answer is the one you already know. If you are doing something that seems to be helping keep doing it.

 

I know that's not what you want to hear along with this is very hard to fix :-)

 

When I'm working with dogs like this I always make them run past where they want to stop even if they are at the balance point. So if I run them out at home and they seem to be stopping at the correct place to bring the sheep straight to me I still make them run a bit further.

 

I don't fetch sheep straight to me at home. I will always make this dog run past 12:00 and then drive the sheep rather then fetching.

 

What I'm trying to do is make the dog's obedience be greater then her instinct. When she gets in a difficult place now and feels a little unsure she is falling back on her instinct rather then her training and stopping and eyeing up. You need to get so much obedience on her that you can move her on with one quick whistle.

 

At the very least this work will make her less likely to stop and at the best will keep her moving. It may not be possible to get her so she will run out to the right spot every time but with work you should be able to get her to move right on with a quick 1/2 point off whistle.

 

Beverly

[Shoofly]

Sounds good. I'll have to add in the driving offline more, that's a good idea and something i haven't done a lot in this context. This dog gets so caught up in lifting straight that it might help some more. Thanks!

[bcnewe2]

Adding to this question.

My Mick is guilty of the same thing. But it happens at home when he knows the sheep are going to take off before he gets there so he stops to see where they are going to go. He doesn't start out tight and isn't stopping in a tight place just stops to see what the sheep are going to do. He seems to be better in a trail situation because he recognizes the sheep are not the same or maybe the set out person clues him to the sheep aren't going to lift early.

But the question I have is...when I insist he keeps moving (obedience thing) He will come in tight right after he breaks his eye and start to chase (maybe not a real chase but sure isn't feeling his sheep) till he feels like he's got a hold of the sheep which is hard to do cause the sheep are feeling the panic in him. I've been doing the non straight fetching thing where we turn it into a drive and that has sure helped especially if I flank him around to the other side and turn in into a cross drive but I think I'm still not giving him the right message. I also wonder if it's just a home turf thing and I have to make allowances for it at home because the sheep are going where he wants them to go when he does this.

I think I'm questioning myself and if I'm reading the situation correctly. Where do I want him if he and I both know the sheep will lift early at home especially if they think it's time to come home for food or that maybe I'm getting ready to work them and they'd rather just go in the lean to and hold out to see who gets picked to go be worked.

 

 

TIA

Kristen

[Lambert]

Where do I want him if he and I both know the sheep will lift early at home especially if they think it's time to come home for food or that maybe I'm getting ready to work them and they'd rather just go in the lean to and hold out to see who gets picked to go be worked.

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This is a pretty common situation for many of us. The sheep are in their home field and as soon as they see the dog they start running to where ever it is they always run when the see the dog. You know they will do this. They know they will do this and the dog knows. So everyone does what they always do.

 

I very seldom practice outruns in my home training field. The sheep are awful for it. Instead of responding to the dog they do their "thing". This defeats the whole purpose of practicing outruns which is for the dog to read the sheep, find sheep in difficult/challenging terrain and learn something. The dog learns nothing good in this situation.

 

When you send your dog on this trip what is it you expect him to do and what do you want him to learn. These are two questions that you should always ask yourself when you ask your dog to do something in a training situation. If the answers are I don't know or nothing. Then don't bother doing the exercise. Its not worth your time or your dogs and little good is likely to come out of it.

 

If in this situation you need to send your dog to bring in the sheep for some reason then try and find a way to make something useful come out of it.

 

Mostly once my dogs know how to outrun at my place I work on other stuff unless I have someone to hold my sheep where I want them. I drive, shed or work on perfecting some phase of work that we have begun to perform less well then I like. I find that outrunning on my home field does us no good and much harm.

 

I doubt this is the sort of news you want to hear but this may just be a situation that has no good/ correct answer. You are sending your dog into a no win situation. No matter what he does the sheep will respond to their environment and not the dog.

 

Beverly