KrisK Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Okay, I'm not peeling my cedar posts (yippee) but now DH and I are in a discussion about how the fence posts get placed in the ground. While I'd love to drive the posts, we are going to have a post auger to do the work. So, here's the question - do you put the wide end in the ground or the narrow end - Please don't laugh - we've had a 50/50 split between which way is up with every farmer we've talked to. So....which way is up folks????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 We put the wide end in the ground, FWIW. Intuitively, it seems it would take longer for it to rot if there were more wood there (in the hole), but I have no idea if that feeling has any basis in reality. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Oh *lightbulb moment* the wide or narrow end of the posts. I always put the wide end in the ground. More stable that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Big end down here too. I go along with Julie, in that in my mind, they would take longer to rot. We got a good deal when I moved out here, and got telephone poles, chained sawed them to size and have utilized them. So far, so good. Darci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 NB all the people who put the fat end of the post in the ground live in places where frost heaving isn't an issue. Thin end gives the frost less purchase to push the post out of the ground. For the same reason, never ever put dry concrete mix into the hole -- the frost will just push it out and the post will come along with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 We don't put concrete of any kind in the holes here either, unless it's absolutely needed to set a post in really wet ground (and then it's knowing the post will have a short life span). Seriously, who would have thought it was all so complicated? I always kind of thought fences grew out of the ground, like sweet gum trees, only more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogtta Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Big end goes in the hole around this part of the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I typically put the big end down (no frost issue here). I only use concrete when I hit rock before I get the hole deep enough for posts I cannot move to another location. I'd rather do that than rent a jack hammer. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I only use concrete when I hit rock before I get the hole deep enough for posts I cannot move to another location. I'd rather do that than rent a jack hammer. Mark ^^Same here. Concrete only when the hole couldn't be dug deep enough because of insurmountable rock problems (where the post location couldn't easily be changed, for example, at a corner). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 So are y'all saying you don't use concrete because the frost will push it out of the hole? Or is there some other reason? Just wondering as I always set my posts in concrete. But my fence has to hold up to the ponies as well as sheeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I think--in our case anyway--that it's just not considered necessary, and therefore an added expense that can be avoided. We use telephone poles or very large cedar posts (we can choose the size by choosing the tree) for most of the stress points, like at corners, and I think if they're sunk deep enough and braced properly, concrete would just be overkill. But I am no fencing expert.... Oh, and I was also told that concrete around the post can actually hold water to the post, causing it to rot faster. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 So are y'all saying you don't use concrete because the frost will push it out of the hole? Or is there some other reason? Just wondering as I always set my posts in concrete. But my fence has to hold up to the ponies as well as sheeps. Another reason is when the posts are set in concrete when they take a good knock from something and there is no 'give' to the post they will sometimes snap off at the ground like a carrot. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRhodes Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 We put them in whichever way, depends on the post. No concrete here, just properly braced corners and deeply sunk posts, usually driven in with a driver mounted to skidloader (handy dandiest thing evar). We mostly put in high tensile electric fence, for cattle, so corner posts have to be especially sturdy to handle the weight and tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 In our area, no concrete is due to frost heaving. When the concrete cleaves to the post, the frost has that much more to push up on. The other reasons sound reasonable as well, but frost is the main reason here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Thanks, y'all. I'd be kinda scared not to set mine in concrete, but we have this really loose sandy soil here. At least for the top two feet. After that you hit a really gummy wet clay layer. Not like that nice hard red clay you get around the Appalachian foothills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted November 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 So, last weekend, I hired the farmer down the road to drill the post holes for my future sheep pasture . It's not a huge area but I took out lines, set where the corners would be, used spray paint to make each post hole along the line, generally did what I thought would be helpful. Now this is my first attempt at fencing so...lessons learned: 1. Be sure to help the position the auger. I have a few post holes that are drilled 'crooked' so getting the post straight hasn't been easy. 2. Have ALL the posts on site - I don't (remember little red Focus and trailer) I need to make 2 more trips - sigh - so I have post holes with water in them and it's getting cold - it makes for more work - sigh So, fence gurus - should I be overconcerned that some of the posts are not in line? Some are close to a foot off - so the fence itself won't be straight. I could have the farmer come back to fix it if I need to - is it an issue??? Other than that, I think it's going reasonably well and there won't be any fence on these posts until the spring so I have time to 'correct' if necessary. One step closer to sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Being off line a foot is not a big deal, unless you're OCD. You could use a digging bar and posthole digger to widen the holes so that your posts will be in-line with the others. To "drill" a new hole you'll have to move the post down the fence line a couple of feet; the auger won't be able to drill right next to the hole without drifting over into the existing hole. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gail Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hi Kris, I'm not sure what kind of fence you are putting in, but a one foot variation in a HT fence system can be a problem. You are putting alot of pressure on the posts with a HT system - this is one reason why you need to brace all of the corners so well. Rather than end up with a bent/broken post and sagging fence, I would maintain a straight fence line. gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Does that mean you can never use HT to make "curved" fence lines? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hi Mark, HT woven needs a stronger post for minor bends, and an H-brace for sharp curves. By the sounds of things, Kris isn't installing HT woven wire or she wouldn't have needed so many wooden posts. With most HT woven installations, you install the corners, dip and rise posts, and any angle posts, plus a wooden post every 100 feet or so, an then pull it taught. You then drive steel T posts every 20 to 25 feet and clip the fence to them for intermediate support. Basically, the T posts are replacing the battens in a HT smooth wire installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted November 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 This is the type of fencing (or very similar to) that I expect to put up. It's fairly common here to see all wooden posts since cedar is relatively cheap and fairly easy to come by. Will I need to re-do my posts if this is the fencing I'm going to use? ETA: No barb wire will be used - I'll probably put hot wire on the outside perimeter to deter any predators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Kris, I think you'll be okay. Some of our t-posts are out of line simply because there were issues with the supreme hardness of the ground and pounding our arses off while keeping in line with the string we used to mark the fence line. It's not as pretty as perfect straight lines, but I also don't think it will ruin your fence. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi Mark, HT woven needs a stronger post for minor bends, and an H-brace for sharp curves. By the sounds of things, Kris isn't installing HT woven wire or she wouldn't have needed so many wooden posts. With most HT woven installations, you install the corners, dip and rise posts, and any angle posts, plus a wooden post every 100 feet or so, an then pull it taught. You then drive steel T posts every 20 to 25 feet and clip the fence to them for intermediate support. Basically, the T posts are replacing the battens in a HT smooth wire installation. Thanks Bill, I see where our application of HT woven differs from others. I've been installing HT woven and along our curved drive I had no issues with posts being "out of line" by a foot. However, to make the desired curve I needed to space the wooden posts every 8'; this would spread the force from the tension over many more posts than in the typical application. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi Kris, Our fence is very similar to what you're installing. I think you can see in this picture a post (3rd from right) that hit a rock and is probably about 1 ft out of line, and the pictured part of the fence (also on the right) has a gentle curve. I want to say that we spaced the wood posts about 30 feet apart and used metal t-posts under trees or anywhere where we couldn't use the post pounder. Sharper bends were treated, as Bill suggests, as corners and "H" braced. We've had it up for probably going on 3 years now and have never had problems with posts breaking, moving or the fence sagging. This year we finally went out and finished installing the scare wire (for our one naughty horse). This is some of the dogs "helping" with that task. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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