Nick's first long outrun

[NorthfieldNick]

Nick & I sorted ewes & put in rams today (a month later than I had planned, but life got in the way). Seven ewes wandered off while I was sorting the ram that was going to breed them, it was the end of the day, and I just didn't feel like walking all the way down the field to get them. So I got brave. Up to this point, I haven't sent Nick (who was 3 in June) on an outrun much longer than about 25-50 yards. Short runs- most of them are more like large flanks. Today, it was about 100 yards, and he had to go over a hill in the middle where I couldn't see him. Like I said, end of the day- I was tired! So away he goes (literally). And I wait. I see him go up & down the hill. And I wait for what seemed like ever. Then here come the ewes trotting nicely over the hill! Oh, I almost jumped up and down! Nick usually rushes the sheep, but he had these ewes going at a nice, even trot. It was lovely!

 

He's really a great working dog- I have no intent on trialing, although he could do it- I'm just not into it. I still get so worried about penning... my old dog, who is now a happy pet, really was not a "worker." He'd quit, ignore you, leave the field... Not Nick! He had the ewes penned in no time, with no dallying, no fussing, no letting anyone squirt out past the gate. Such a relief!

 

Now the question: I've seen a lot of folks stop a dog at the lift. The guy I bought Nick from said he did it. Whenever I stop Nick, however, when he gets going again, he's so anxious (I guess) to get the sheep going he rushes into them & they go flying off. If I leave him be & let him keep moving, everything is fine for the most part. We still have some work to do... Any reason that a dog should be stopped at the lift?

 

Thanks! I'm a serious training newbie... number one reason I didn't get a puppy.

[juliepoudrier]

Ben,

There are different schools of thought on this. IMO, it depends on the dog and its approach to the sheep. I have one open trial dog that I *never* stop at the top. She's always plenty deep and approaches the sheep calmly and steadily and I can do silent gathers with her. I have another that I *almost always* at least blow a lie down at the top. She's fast and may well blow in if I don't give her at least that whistle. With the pups, I generally insist on a stop when they get behind the sheep, but again that's because I want them to learn to approach sensibly for the lift, not come in at the same pace they had on the outrun. So if Nick is sensible at the approach and lift and lying him down creates tension, then I personally would not lie him down. I think this is one of those situations where you simply make an exception to the rule if it works for you and your dog.

 

J.

[Pipedream Farm]

Like Julie I have different strategies for the lift with my two open dogs. Jody needs to be stopped to get her mind right for the lift while Peg does a great job lifting on her own. I prefer a dog that can handle the top on their own and am trying to teach my pup Nell pace while lifting. If your dog does a nice lift on his own, let him do it. The lift sets the tone for the fetch and how the sheep view the dog; a hard lift can set the sheep in a panic while a calm lift can show the sheep the dog can be trusted.

 

Mark

[kelpiegirl]

I would bet that if you sent him on twice as long an outrun, he could still do it, and do it well. I have video of my girl on her first long outrun. The fetch was not perfect- as she got pushy, but she figured out how to lay off, and she brought me those sheep. That signified a big change in her- where she saw that she was really working for me, and it was not all about the rote stuff. I strongly believe that good sheepdogs are born with an innate sense of "sheep sense", and when you send your baby (not just in age, but also in training) out to get those sheep, that sheep sense takes over. It ain't about the training then. That's when the spirit of this whole thing hits you, and you realize just how precious this stuff is. So, keep doing what your doing, up the ante once in a while, and he will probably surprise you often.

As for laying down at the top - what Julie says Lucy vacilates between beeeeautiful lifts, and then, sometimes when those sheep want to stick like glue to the hold out, then it is still okay at first, but then she gets pushy at the start of the fetch; I suppose to release that tension. Her lifts in general though are good- she just needs to let them come to me- and not push them to me

 

Nick & I sorted ewes & put in rams today (a month later than I had planned, but life got in the way). Seven ewes wandered off while I was sorting the ram that was going to breed them, it was the end of the day, and I just didn't feel like walking all the way down the field to get them. So I got brave. Up to this point, I haven't sent Nick (who was 3 in June) on an outrun much longer than about 25-50 yards. Short runs- most of them are more like large flanks. Today, it was about 100 yards, and he had to go over a hill in the middle where I couldn't see him. Like I said, end of the day- I was tired! So away he goes (literally). And I wait. I see him go up & down the hill. And I wait for what seemed like ever. Then here come the ewes trotting nicely over the hill! Oh, I almost jumped up and down! Nick usually rushes the sheep, but he had these ewes going at a nice, even trot. It was lovely!

 

He's really a great working dog- I have no intent on trialing, although he could do it- I'm just not into it. I still get so worried about penning... my old dog, who is now a happy pet, really was not a "worker." He'd quit, ignore you, leave the field... Not Nick! He had the ewes penned in no time, with no dallying, no fussing, no letting anyone squirt out past the gate. Such a relief!

 

Now the question: I've seen a lot of folks stop a dog at the lift. The guy I bought Nick from said he did it. Whenever I stop Nick, however, when he gets going again, he's so anxious (I guess) to get the sheep going he rushes into them & they go flying off. If I leave him be & let him keep moving, everything is fine for the most part. We still have some work to do... Any reason that a dog should be stopped at the lift?

 

Thanks! I'm a serious training newbie... number one reason I didn't get a puppy.

[Sue R]

I'm a serious training newbie... number one reason I didn't get a puppy.

 

That sounds very smart. I wish I had done something like getting an older, trained retiree or a well-started farm dog, but I didn't. I wouldn't trade the dogs I have for anything, but I could have (and should have, if I'd known) done a better job at starting *me* and therefore at giving a youngster a better start than I have done with mine.

[NorthfieldNick]

Oh, yes. When I needed a new dog, I talked to a friend of mine who used to trial & train. He's good friends with Pat Shannahan (I was at Pat's farm getting a ram once, but he wasn't there). Pat had seen Nick at a clinic & really liked him. I made it very clear that I wanted a started dog. I'm willing to put some work into a dog, but I did NOT want to start one! It was the best decision I've ever made. Not only is Nick a great worker, but he's a great dog all around.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll just keep doing what works