Change color

[DixiesDad]

I'm familiar that horses can change color. My wife's appaloosa was solid black with a few white spots on her rump when she was born. By the time she was 1 year she was white all over wth black spots. A black leopard.

Well Scout was black with white markings when we found the pups. Now he looks like some of his coat is going grey. My wife thinks he may be a tricolor. Is this common

 

This is what he looked like last Sunday

 

 

I'll try to update his pics tomorrow.

[Guest WoobiesMom]

I think pups can change alot as they grow. Especially when there's questionable parentage at work. Here's what Woobie looked like when he was found:

 

 

And a recent pic:

 

Notice he retained that adorable spot on the side of his nose. I hope Scout does the same!

[Mudpups]

Maybe he is blue and white rather than black and white? Taj's brother was blue, in reality a very dark steel grey that looked black unless you compared them side by side.

[OurBoys]

Maybe he is blue and white rather than black and white? Taj's brother was blue, in reality a very dark steel grey that looked black unless you compared them side by side.

 

OK, so I have to ask....DD, please forgive me....As you can tell from JJ and Jake's pictures below, they are b & w. When we are outside, their black looks like it has a blue tint to it. I thought it was just me but DH mentioned it the other day. Could their black fur be so black it has a blue tint? Indoors you don't see it.

[juliepoudrier]

Brenda,

I think what Dixie's Dad is referring to is a greyish cast to the coat. The blue color is dilute black (black coat acted on by a dilution gene), so it's not really the same as the shiny blue black that you're seeing in your B&W dog's coats.

 

Dixie's Dad,

I don't have enough experience to tell you whether a blue pup looks black when it's born, but I think when compared to the other pups in the litter that it would be different enough even at birth to be noticeable, but I'm not an expert, so my thoughts on the subject could be completely off base.

 

J.

[OurBoys]

Thanks, Julie!

[Laura (Cady and Koda's mom)]

I have a black and white girl and also a blue tri boy (plus a red/white boy). I saw both of them when they were young, the blue tri when he was only a week old. The different color was very obvious when they were next to eachother. There were several black and several blues in his litter. The tri portion was harder to tell when very young, but by about 5 weeks it was pretty obvious in my pup. The breeders on the board maybe can tell you more about that.

This was part of my blue tri boy's litter at 3 weeks

(from the left black, blue, blue, black, blue, blue)

 

My blue boy did get a few lighter hairs as he got older, but other than the tri showing up more, he's basically still the same color.

 

Has your pup been in the sun more or swimming? Just a thought.

Not sure this helps, but that's my experience....

[AKB]

Ingrid changed color in a few places- a few months after she lost her puppy coat she started to get sort of a sable and white ticking round her eyes and on her hindquarters. It looked very odd at first. Around her eyes it looked like she was losing her fur.

[gypsy84]

Gypsy is a tri and her brown definitely lightened up, but other than being replaced by brown in some places, her black stayed black. She has a lighter grey undercoat around her hind end and behind her shoulders, but her outercoat has always stayed the same colour.

 

Here's a couple photos for comparison:

 

3 months old

 

9 months old

[NorthfieldNick]

Nick is a blue-and-white, and he's kind of a mud brown color (oh so lovely in the Pacific Northwest). He has this greyish-purple cast to his coat, especially the undercoat. I got him at 2, but in the puppy pictures I was sent, he's very grey.

 

Him now (note the crook in the background):

[mbc1963]

I used to have a shepherd/husky mix who started out with a mostly black face and ended up with mostly tan face - we used to be surprised to see her early pictures, years later, and see how much she'd lightened. So... I guess the trend is for a bit of black to lighten as age comes on?

 

Mary

[Pipedream Farm]

Here is a photo of Peg's female pups at about 1 day old.

and another showing the difference in color with a sister.

 

One is NOT black; that is BJ. BJ is tri and probably a blue tri. Her coat is not black; sometimes it looks dark gray and sometimes more brown/dark red. The lighting affects how her coat looks. This is a more recent photo of BJ

 

Mark

[Pipedream Farm]

There are a few places to check for tri coloring (brown or tan), when it's not obvious; under the tail around the butt is one.

 

Mark

[sleeping]

I was wondering about this, cause charlie's ears seem to be turning browner and browner.

[juliepoudrier]

I was wondering about this, cause charlie's ears seem to be turning browner and browner.

Well, just to add to the confusion, in black dogs the red pigment is also present; it's just masked by the black. As the black hair ages, the black pigment can fade a bit and leave the hair looking reddish/brown. If Charlie's ears are turning brown, as in tan, then I would guess it's tri showing up, but if it's just "brownish" behind his ears, that usually just "sunburned" hair that has lost some of its black pigment.

 

Not quite related to this discussion except perhaps the sun faded part, my Jill was quite blonde all summer from the sun fading her coat. She has since shedded out and the hair coming back is a beautiful mahogany. So right now she looks rather patchy, with blonde highlights overlaying a beautiful deep red. For a while the only place with the new, darker hair was her face, giving her a raccoon-like look, which was pretty amusing.

 

Tris can also fade with age. If you look at the dog on the bottom right of my signature photo, the bits behind her muzzle appear to be a very pale tan. When she was younger, the hair there was a beautiful rich chestnut.

 

J.

[jamesqf]

Well, just to add to the confusion, in black dogs the red pigment is also present; it's just masked by the black. As the black hair ages, the black pigment can fade a bit and leave the hair looking reddish/brown.

 

This also happens when you use the peroxide & baking soda skunk formula (which really works, BTW). Niki is normally black & white, but spent much of the summer as a peroxide tricolor. Still has a bit of red behind her ears...

[MrSnappy]

Not quite related to this discussion except perhaps the sun faded part, my Jill was quite blonde all summer from the sun fading her coat. She has since shedded out and the hair coming back is a beautiful mahogany. So right now she looks rather patchy, with blonde highlights overlaying a beautiful deep red. For a while the only place with the new, darker hair was her face, giving her a raccoon-like look, which was pretty amusing.

 

This would describe Tweed as well. He stays relatively dark, but he has lots of light bits. Red Dog has bleached out to a tan colour mostly all over.

 

And when Piper got skunked a couple of years ago, she turned pretty brown in lots of places.

 

Also, if you dye a tan dog:

 

and dye her black for a commercial job, and the dye does not wash out immediately as promised, you end up with a dog that looks like this:

 

RDM

[jrid]

I have a friend whose border collie was a basic black and white dog. At about the age of 8 or so he started turning white. When he died around the age of 12 -13 he had hardly a black hair left on him. If I remember correctly, I think he hair started turning white at the tail first and then the color change worked its way towards the front.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

The black turning white is a gene that Beardies, Pyrs, and some other dogs have whose exact genetics is escaping me now (sorry, headachey). That's funny that it would pop up in a "normal" Border Collie.

 

Dilute dogs (blue, lilac) usually get stronger in color as they age, not the other way around. However, agouti grey gets easier to see as the dog ages as it is related to the "wild" coloration where pups start out dark for better camouflage and get lighter as they mature.

 

Tri appears first under the tail. If your dog doesn't have that, they aren't tri. It can be white. grey, light tan, or dark tan, but something besides the base color has to be there. This is not true of saddleback sables, however.

 

I once really offended a handler at a trial when I said with delight, "Wow, your dog is a sable!" It was a male and was flagging his tail around and I noticed he was solid black under there, though he had deep tan coloration elsewhere. She turned on me with great scorn and said, "My dog is a tri - I know the difference and he's not sable!" I think she may have been thinking GSD sable and that I was thinking her dog was not purebred or something. Or that I was a sporty person, though the resentment against that faction hadn't really risen at the time - it was about ten years ago.

 

Or that it was a really stupid thing to say to a handler at a dog trial, which is was, and most likely that's the reason for the handler's irritation. I was actually so cowed by this experience that I never spoke a word to anyone at a trial for the next few years. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[PSmitty]

I came across this dog the other day and wondered about his color. They're calling him red/white, but he looks like something else to me. Is he brindle or sable, maybe? Handsome boy, whatever he is!

 

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/638346