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You laugh, but there are a number of us on the boards right now with 4-5 month old pups. I'm sure I speak for more than myself: what do you do when your darlin' baby BC is just plain being bratty? I'm sure this is the age when a lot of them end up in rescue, sadly.

 

Last evening a couple of friends came over for dinner. Kaylee knows them from a camping trip and visit to their house. She forgot all the manners she ever learned, jumped all over them, mouthed them to the point of nipping, in spite of them both giving her good attention if she sat calm for a second. I had to put her on leash, in the house, and finally got her interested in her hoof chew. She nipped me too hard, too. A time-out in the crate while we ate did not improve her behavior, and she tested me at every opportunity, ignoring every request. Back on the leash, she tried the 'sudden lunge' technique a number of times, to try to get it out of my hands. She was a furry terror, and I was embarrassed. Surely we were doing better than this!

 

Should I have grabbed her by the scruff and given her a hard shake? I raise my voice to her, and will occasionally clip her under the muzzle if she's nipping, but I haven't done that before.

 

At puppy class, our trainer has showed us how to have a friend stand and ignore jumping until they sit, then click and reward, and obviously we need to practice this a lot. Trainer suggests hanging out in the parking lot of the hardware store and inviting folks to help train the puppy. This girl gets WAY too excited around new people. She's also nipping fingers when being rewarded, which didn't help the friends' experience of her.

 

She's also showing new aggression in her playdates with her boxer buddy Tyson, who lives next door. He doesn't seem very happy about it, but he loves her and puts up with it. She's growling, gripping the skin of his neck and hanging on like a fuzzy vampire, as well as more typical play. What's enough, and what can be done?

 

Further suggestions would be very welcome!

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Guest WoobiesMom

Well thank goodness you're interested in fixing it! There are 2 pups that age at the dog park who think Woobie's ears are tug swings. The beagle pup taught the lab mix pup and now there's an ear for both. The owners just giggle and say ain't that cute??? I've had to say No, it's not, it's hurting my dog and he might nip their faces if they don't lay off. Only one owner has listened so far and put a stop to it with their dog, but the beagle's momma just thinks it's the greatest thing ever! :rolleyes:

 

When Woobie went thru that stage, I actually had to hide in the bathroom because NOTHING I did short of an alpha roll would make him stop and I was black and blue from the knees down. I would go in the bathroom and ignore him after saying a loud "No!" After a while he seemed to get it and if I distracted him with training or fetch, it worked for a while. Thank goodness for the dog park, it was the place I could take him when he had the zoomies and he'd wear himself out, but it was a rough 2-3 months!

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Yup, Sol turns 4 months old this week and she can turn from sweet fluffy puppy into the puppy from He!! in 5 seconds flat! We had a party Saturday and she was jumping around like a maniac. When she quit listening to me I just put her in her crate. She cried and whined but I told all the party guests to ignore her. 45 minutes later, when she was quiet, I let her out. She managed about an hour of good manners and got nuts again...right back in the crate. I am unsympathetic, if you can't behave like a civilized dog, you don't get to be out with the people and other dogs.

 

Any nips result in a bonk on the nose and a stern 'no' and all interaction is removed, she must lie at my feet until told otherwise.

 

At this age they seem to me to be like human toddlers. I can tell when Sol starts getting tired as she gets more and more obnoxious the tireder she gets. If I put her in her crate or on a leash right by my feet she will almost always go to sleep and wake up as a nice, thinking puppy again.

 

As far as the biting older dogs goes...I am lucky in having a nice older female who has no qualms about putting puppies in their place if they start getting too rough. She will fix most problems. However, if I see Sol getting too rough with other dogs I step in, give her a mild scruff shake and tell her to knock it off. If she does it again she loses her playing privileges and has to leave the park or where ever.

 

Sol is extremely movement oriented and will 'eye' and stalk other playing dogs to the exclusion of doing anything else. I don't want her to be a dog that can't concentrate on anything other than other moving dogs. All she wants to do is 'work' the other dogs. If I catch her 'eyeing' the other dogs she is put in a 'down' and not allowed to move except to fetch her ball. If she drops the ball to eye another dog, playtime is over and she goes up while the other dogs get to continue to play. She is slowly learning the rules and is learning to concentrate on her ball and hold her 'down' while the other dogs are fetching.

 

Whew! Puppies will wear you out! I value my sanity and the sanity of the older dogs so I use the crate and leash liberally whenever I need a break.

 

Olivia

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Oh dear I know exactly how you are feeling right now.. I have been trying and trying to get Bree to quit hanging off of Lukes tail and butt hair... He doesn't care (well I am sure he does but he doesn't do anything about it) she was always coming away with HUGE mouth fulls of his hair... His tail and butt hair is soooo thin now I can't believe it... She got it figured that if Luke her her were a ways away from me she could grab him and I could get at her to give her heck.. So I a lunge whip I have that I have a plastic bag fashioned on the end of and when she would latch onto him I would swish it real hard as close to her as I could get and tell her no. It seemed to have worked. Every once in a while when she gets over excited she will grab him but lets go quick usually before more hair comes out..... But man I'll tell ya she used to latch on so hard that when Luke turned around because I called him she would swing out in the air. I didn't think I would ever get it solved....

 

As far as people coming to visit if she can't control her self and be polite I put her leash on and stand on it short so she has to lay at my feet. I make her sit for people to pet her and tell her to be Mellow and if she cant control the wiggles I remove her from the people and she has to lie down beside me again.

 

Tara

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i know its hassle but the ignoring till they sit really does work. brighid used to be a git for jumping up and it was a lon hard slog to get her to realise that she had to sit if she wanted attention. thing is though, when they do work it out, it becomes almost hardwired in their heads.

i remember walking through the fields and literally walking into a bunch of kids. i was mortified! brighid LOVES kids and dashed up before i had realised what was happening (my fault for not spying the land out properly).

i thought she was going to knock these kids for 6 when she reached the 1st one and SLAMMED her butt on the floor in front of them. no command from me at all! i was sooooooooo proud! she does it automatically now every time she meets someone, with absolutely no prompting!

except for my bloke.....

but he wouldnt listen when she was little and i was explaining what i was teaching her and why..... (oh but she's sooooo sweet and my ickle girly!!!!!)

so he deserves a pogoing red maniac untill such time as he works out what he needs to do, cos i'm not explaining it again!

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Yup, Sol turns 4 months old this week and she can turn from sweet fluffy puppy into the puppy from He!! in 5 seconds flat! We had a party Saturday and she was jumping around like a maniac. When she quit listening to me I just put her in her crate. She cried and whined but I told all the party guests to ignore her. 45 minutes later, when she was quiet, I let her out. She managed about an hour of good manners and got nuts again...right back in the crate. I am unsympathetic, if you can't behave like a civilized dog, you don't get to be out with the people and other dogs.

 

Any nips result in a bonk on the nose and a stern 'no' and all interaction is removed, she must lie at my feet until told otherwise.

 

At this age they seem to me to be like human toddlers. I can tell when Sol starts getting tired as she gets more and more obnoxious the tireder she gets. If I put her in her crate or on a leash right by my feet she will almost always go to sleep and wake up as a nice, thinking puppy again.

 

As far as the biting older dogs goes...I am lucky in having a nice older female who has no qualms about putting puppies in their place if they start getting too rough. She will fix most problems. However, if I see Sol getting too rough with other dogs I step in, give her a mild scruff shake and tell her to knock it off. If she does it again she loses her playing privileges and has to leave the park or where ever.

 

Sol is extremely movement oriented and will 'eye' and stalk other playing dogs to the exclusion of doing anything else. I don't want her to be a dog that can't concentrate on anything other than other moving dogs. All she wants to do is 'work' the other dogs. If I catch her 'eyeing' the other dogs she is put in a 'down' and not allowed to move except to fetch her ball. If she drops the ball to eye another dog, playtime is over and she goes up while the other dogs get to continue to play. She is slowly learning the rules and is learning to concentrate on her ball and hold her 'down' while the other dogs are fetching.

 

Whew! Puppies will wear you out! I value my sanity and the sanity of the older dogs so I use the crate and leash liberally whenever I need a break.

 

I really like your response--you've got a no-nonsense, clearly defined set of rules, and you absolutely refuse to accept rude behavior. You're not "asking" for good behavior--you're REQUIRING it. Good for you!!!

Anna

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I am very gratified to know that my dog is not the only one who grossly misbehaves on occasion. Yesterday was better: you see, I bought a pack of chicken hotdogs. Now I am worshipped. I have totally regained Kaylee's respect: I am the Goddess of the Frankfurter, the Queen of Weiners! And so far, this morning has been nip-free. Amazing!

 

Donna, your description of your Brighid's buttslam was great. We are going to work on that! Kaylee adores children: there were two, ages 4 and 8, at her first home, and they played with and loved on her a lot when she was between 6-9 weeks old. I really do want her to be able to enjoy kids without bowling them over or nipping.

 

I am determined that my girl will be a good canine playmate and not play Tug too hard with her buddys' skin. I'm going to do my best to supervise her play with Tyson. He can't have hotdogs, but just maybe I can get them both playing with a toy: ahah, the flying squirrel! This toy, supposedly indestructable, now has a hole in it that can be worried further, so I'll sacrifice it. It's well-loved: maybe they'll both chase it instead of gripping each other for fun. I'll also try taking Kaylee to visit when she's tired already. I think she also needs to play with some other dogs, some that will correct her a bit. We haven't gone to the dog park yet: it's in the next town over, so we need to plan an excursion. With hotdogs, of course, to get her attention when needed. We're working on recall, which is pretty good when there are no distractions, but other dogs, o, my! Hotdogs.

 

One of my friends has a six-month-old mastiff pup who weighs 50 pounds, half again Kaylee's weight. We haven't introduced them yet, but I think if Luc tries to bodyslam her, he'll have to catch her first! We'll see how she behaves with a much bigger puppy!

 

On Friday we are taking her on a weekend road trip to visit friends who have a ranch, older dogs and retired horses. I expect to spend a lot of time with her on-leash, as she learns how to behave, but it is a dog-friendly place, and I've already enlisted the help of these friends in training her to sit for greeting. And no 'ickle beebee girly' baby talk: it makes her pee, immediately. Followed by rather damp pogo-ing...

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When Ingrid was little she could be pretty unruly with guests. Actually, she still can every now and then. If she got too rowdy to settle in and be petted nicely we would just crate her for about ten minutes or so. If she repeated her bad behavior, she would go back in the crate. It worked well for us because it wasn't punishment per se, we made sure she had something to play with quietly, but it wasn't where she wanted to be at that second either. Good luck Queen of Weiners, I bet she'll get through this phase soon.

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Ohh how I wish Shadow was still nipping.. that took me a day to fix.. but noooo. Shadow has decided not to poop. I can walk her for 3 hours and no poop. 2 times in 4 days, and its not hard or compacted.. she just likes to hold it to frustrate me!! I'll fix her little red wagon tho! The vet gave mommy some puppy sized supositories *evil cackling face inserted here please* Right now we can't let her run around, because she WILL poop on the floor, just not in the grass. :rolleyes: PUPPIES! ARG!!

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Thanks Anna,

 

My other two dogs trained as sheepdogs first before we did any dog sports (they now enjoy agility and flyball but sheep still trump everything else :-) ) and that is how my sheep herding trainer said to raise them. No nonsense. They are wonderfully well adjusted dogs who are social and well mannered. I refuse to accept anything less from this puppy.

 

I think I am going to take the trouble making puppy to expose her to sheep in the next week or so. Just to see how ready she is to start. Sheep work puts a lot of sense in those heads!

 

Olivia

 

PS. My maiden name is Guthrie but I'm from Alabama, way across the country from you.

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Sheep work puts a lot of sense in those heads!

I would love to have some sheep, even some alpacas, but on .12 of an acre, a couple of cats is about the best I can do.

 

I live about 1.5 hrs from a place that trains sheepdogs and would rent us sheep by the hour, but I'd need a lot of training myself for that. I think agility may be the way to go for us.

 

I do appreciate your zero-tolerance stance, and am working on it for myself. (Does sheep work put sense in human heads, too?) I know that I'm not as consistent as I could be, either, and am enlisting DH's help , as well, so our messages are not mixed.

 

We'll get there!

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We're working on recall, which is pretty good when there are no distractions, but other dogs, o, my!

 

Kaylee...Sophie the pirate pup loves other dogs, too. When we go to the pet store she has deigned herself hostess and will proceed to try and get them to join the party. Oh boy can that be troublesome when the dog is unfamiliar....never know what the other dog's personality may be. Sometimes they like to play and sometimes they are kinda surly.

 

Plus, she's ---as you know---still learning how to behave and greet others with tact and gauge the temperature of the room :D .

 

Looks like you and I are having nearly the same problems :rolleyes: .

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Hi, Olivia. I had a feeling it was stockwork that made for the no-nonsense approach. It sounded too familiar. :rolleyes: Let us know how the little one does on stock! I've got one here that I am training that just turned 6 months, and she's really fun. She's just been here a month, and as of yesterday, she can gather the big group (about 50 head) out of the pasture, put them into the sorting pen, stay parked calmly while I gate sort a handful of sheep, then escort them over to the arena. This morning we worked the calves. There's nothing more fun than getting those little ones started!

Anna (the Guthrie came from my ex (his people were from Indiana)...I was originally an Adams)

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Yeah, doing stockwork doesn't have a lot of time for clicker, begging, etc training that I've seen a lot in the local parks. I get a lot of compliments on how well Sol behaves in public, walks nicely on a leash, keeps an eye on me, etc. It's not that I beg for those behaviors, I just expect them and nothing less. If she can't give me what I need then she doesn't get to come out in public. Simple as that.

 

I can't wait to start her. I really liked how her parents worked and so far she has been a little spitfire to live with. I'm sure she's going to give me a run for my money on stock for a while. I foresee a long line in her future :rolleyes: . It's been 4 years since I've started a pup so I'm really looking forward to doing it all over and trying to fix some of the things I did to my older dogs. We'll start on some quite dog broke Kahtadins (I'm sorry I butchered that spelling) in a smallish ring with my older girl to be back up for us then move out to a smallish pasture. We don't own sheep but I trade shearing, foot trimming, deworming, etc work for training time. We hope to be able to sell our house in the near future and move to a little farm where we can have our own flock!

 

Sounds like your young one is doing really well. Nothing like practical work to really make them think and feel like they are accomplishing something.

 

Olivia

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Hey, Olivia! Where do you live? Sounds like your thinking and mine are the same on basic discipline. And working stock, actually. I just have high expectations and the dogs generally seem to rise to the occasion,

A

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I live in Knoxville, TN. It does sound like we are very much on the same page with basic discipline and stockwork. I find that if you set your standards high you are very likely to have dogs rise to those standards where if you expect lower standards you will always get it! :rolleyes: It goes for every venue too. My older girl does agility for me, even though she very obviously thinks it's silly and wonders when we are going to get back to real work, but I still set pretty high hopes for her and she has surprised me several times by getting some weave entrances that I never trained.

 

Poor Carlie (the older dog) is very thunderphobic, very! We were the official sheep dog and handler for the college I went to (had a flock of about 50-60 old, big, cranky Suffolk ewes) and had the pasture fence go down in a thunderstorm. It wasn't that I wanted her to go get the sheep and bring them back but I needed her to. She ignored the storm, got the sheep back, held them while we rigged the fence back up. She shot off for the truck the second the words 'that'll do' left my mouth but she definitely rose to the occasion with grace. High expectations for a dog that hides under the toilet at the least boom but look what I got out of it!

 

Olivia

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I agree totally with Olivia's approach. I'm the same way. Unfortunately, though, I have neighbors who believe that dogs should be allowed "to be dogs" and run wild. ARGHHHH! They've even gone so far as to tell me that I'm being mean to my dogs for not letting them bark nonstop, chase the cars that go up the driveway (that runs beside of our property), lunge at the fence trying to get to stray cats or their dog(on the other side of the fence), etc. I am a firm believer in rules. I'll let them play as hard as they want to and I do spoil them rotten, but there is a time and a place for that, which doesn't include when we have visitors.

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Ignorant people are irritating! I've reached the age where I don't care much for what people think. At least that's ONE good thing about getting older! :rolleyes:

A

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