The HrrGrr Chonicles. . .

[Tassie]

Well done, Kelly - that sounds like huge progress!

 

at the dog turd thing - my girl did one the other day at a friend's place - couldn't find it in the long grass, but my friend said "Never mind - I'M bound to find it with my shoe"

[KellyR]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fKAVx-UYtOU

 

Well, its not exactly thrilling, but it is a good example of how well he's doing. Not too shabby for a dog that only 2 weeks ago couldn't be leashed or walked at all.

 

He's also decided that he needs to follow me from office to bedroom to bathroom a lot. Its not exactly a graceful transition, but more of a headlong crash into the next room with an emphasis on getting to his known safe spot. I'll take it, calm will come after the snipping and with age.

 

Enjoy.

[Rockstar]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fKAVx-UYtOU

 

Well, its not exactly thrilling, but it is a good example of how well he's doing. Not too shabby for a dog that only 2 weeks ago couldn't be leashed or walked at all.

 

He's also decided that he needs to follow me from office to bedroom to bathroom a lot. Its not exactly a graceful transition, but more of a headlong crash into the next room with an emphasis on getting to his known safe spot. I'll take it, calm will come after the snipping and with age.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Wow, he's doing GREAT! And I love his face, he really seems to want to learn! What a cutie.

[mbc1963]

That's excellent!

 

Early on, my dog was quite nervous when we'd be leash walking out on busy human streets. I'll never forget the thrill I got one night after a few weeks when he looked back at me from his leash and did that "relaxed grin/relaxed ear" thing dogs do when you're walking them - they seem to want to say, "Oh, you're out here, too - I forgot! Cool!"

 

HrrGrr looks like he's just a day or two away from giving you that grinning, happy face. Enjoy it!

 

Mary

[Vail]

He is looking up at you a lot. I think that means he's looking at you for leadership.

[AKB]

Look at him walking on a leash! That's great. It sounds like a good thing that he's following you from room to room too.

[Tassie]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fKAVx-UYtOU

 

Well, its not exactly thrilling, but it is a good example of how well he's doing. Not too shabby for a dog that only 2 weeks ago couldn't be leashed or walked at all.

 

He's also decided that he needs to follow me from office to bedroom to bathroom a lot. Its not exactly a graceful transition, but more of a headlong crash into the next room with an emphasis on getting to his known safe spot. I'll take it, calm will come after the snipping and with age.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

H*ck yes it's thrilling - that's fantastic. Well done to you and that good dog you have there, Kelly. (Need thumbs up emoticon )

[KellyR]

H*ck yes it's thrilling - that's fantastic. Well done to you and that good dog you have there, Kelly. (Need thumbs up emoticon )

 

 

Hows this?

 

He's officially learned his name! When called he looks, when spoken he glances back. He's learning the command 'wait' when walking as well. He pulls less and less as we approach the park and when we return to the house. I'm incredibly happy with his progress, he's getting more comfortable with eating & drinking in my presence. I mean, the 7th is only 3 weeks. And I'm very grateful for the advice and support from the BCBoards.

 

I'll keep you posted!

[Guest WoobiesMom]

That's so fantastic! Heck, it took Woobie MONTHS to walk on a loose leash, much less at my side like that. HrrGrr is a fast study and you are a miracle worker! Kudos!!!!!

[KellyR]

Well, not much new, I haven't been pushing him much. He's a gentleman to walk now, we almost have a painfree system for getting in and out of doorways and he heels perfectly now with only the occasional tug. He's getting 'wait' a little, but stopping still wierds him out.

 

Anyhow, today was the official chip and snip day. He came thru with flying colors. All vaccinated, and no side effects, he ate and drank tonight without complications, so I'm glad for that. All his meds, e-collar, chipping, neuter, vaccines were only 127.50 at Harrison Memorial Animal hospital here in Denver, I highly recommend them.

 

Once this 10day period of healing passes, I hope to start hand feeding him and get him into treats finally and start some real training for him. He constantly gets compliments everywhere he goes so its only a matter of time.

[Tassie]

Thanks for the update, Kelly. Hope HrrGrr recovers well, and continues to make such good progress. How good you must feel getting nice comments about him. Gotta love the way Border Collies can make people smile. Well done to you for your work with him.

[KellyR]

I love it when a plan comes together.

 

Happy birthday me, and HrrGrr was a good boy all day in celebration (hey, this is my fantasy, ok!). He's doing well, walking like a perfect gentleman, once we get off the front stoop. And today, we had 2 sucessful walks with potty breaks!!!! I admit, I missed this morning and lunch by mere moments, since apparently HrrGrr can't read time and waiting til 8 and 12 were simply too much to ask.

 

In the park we had good visits with other pups (that mean assed old biddy from yesterday with the sweet 3 legged lab can go suck an egg tho). And he got steak ends too (I may have found his food weakness FINALLY).

 

I've got a bunch of new pics of him laying on the sidewalk, I'll get them posted up soon for everyone.

[KellyR]

Ok, a little update. I've learned a lot about him lately, first because the rescue person to show him kindness was female

(an idiot tho), he strongly attaches to females around. Example, he also escaped today (jerked his lead out of my hand) and the ran

himself exhausted and the pads of his feet into hamburger, then calmly heeled and followed a random woman into her house where she called me *whew*. He generally likes my mom and other women when they come around.

 

Its been a week since his snip and chip, and he's healing up nicely, so I think its time to start the no free lunch training. I was

thinking, sit with him at breakfast, hand offer food. If he declines for 15-20 minutes, I put it away. Try again at lunch and at dinner.

Like Laurie said, he won't starve himself. Plus, I've found a food weakness of his, he LOVES rare roast beef, hot, warm, cold, doesn't matter. So I've got a supply of it try. Once I can get him to take food/treats from my hand, then the real training can begin, because right now, he won't take ANYTHING from me at all. If it sits he'll eat it after I leave the room but thats not helping.

 

So my little escape artist is home and well and trying. I think the hardest part to overcome will be his fear of men.

[Vail]

The "fear of men" has me worried. My first BC (2yo F), had a known "fear of men" when I adopted her. That fear turned into aggression, which led her to an unfortunate end.

[Tassie]

Glad his little escapade ended well, Kelly. OK, so you know even more about him now. You know that he can trust some humans. I think your plan is still to work step by step - naccepting that there may be some backwards steps - but if he does regress, he'll likely move forwards again faster.

 

Just be amazed at how he's progressed - and I would say, don't fall into a trap of expecting dramatic progress all the time. Time spent building confidence now will be repaid over and over, whereas putting too much pressure on, could cause him a lot of stress - especially as he adjusts to his 'new body'.

 

As far as getting him to trust men - I'd be making use of the really yummy treats - maybe keep his absolute favourites for you and for any nice men you can persuade to help with his training.

 

I'd be having HRrGrr on a loose leash, and getting trusted males to make a curving sideways approach, and walking past him, outside his reaction distance, and gently tossing a yummy treat or two near (not at) him. It's important in the early stages that the males present a sideways body, and not make eye contact (i.e. present calming, non-threatening presence - no front on approaches, no close approaches.) If you can do lots of reps of this, starting with a distance he's comfortable with, and then seeing if that distance decreases over time, I'd say you're well on the way.

 

If you go with this plan, I'd be making sure that the females in his life have much less yummy treats to give him. You'd want him to think that only you, or other males he meets, are the only source of those wonderful goodies.

 

Happy birthday, BTW - you deserve it.

[KellyR]

Vail:

 

Yeah, I'm worried, he doesn't get aggressive around anyone/thing, he just avoids it. I think a more accurate way to say it is that he 'prefers females' at this point. Aggression and nipping earn an immediate take down by the scruff, just like a bitch would correct a errant pup, once he 'gets it', I let him up and act as if nothing happened. It seems to be very effective so far. For instance, when I first brought him home, trying to carry him would usually get me bitten badly. Last night, he started limping on the sore paws, even with his feet wrapped, so I had to carry him. When I FIRST picked him up, he nipped my right forarm 3 times, not very hard, just enough to convey 'put me down asshole'. So I scruffed him in the grass for 3-4 seconds, then picked him right back up and kept carrying him and he was fine the rest of the way home AND into the house. So he's getting schooled in appropriate aggression. I still warn people that approach that he might be fearful and is NOT tame.

 

Tassie:

 

I really am trying to temper myself that only so much progress is going to be available. Today only makes 1 month and when you think about it, he couldn't walk on a leash, potty outside or come room to room when whistled so those things are improvements. I'm trying to take things one step at a time and be mindful AND thankful for his current progress. The next thing is for him to take food from my hand, its the ONLY way to lead to training of any sort, so that is an issue I have to press hard on, everything else can wait as far as I care. Currently he won't take ANY treat or food by hand or in the presence of humans. I've tried peanut butter, liver treats, cheese, chicken, roast beef (most favorable reaction but still not there), hamburger, beggin strips, etc, etc. He has to learn to eat by hand, I can't see any other options.

[Vail]

Aggression and nipping earn an immediate take down by the scruff, just like a bitch would correct a errant pup, once he 'gets it', I let him up and act as if nothing happened. It seems to be very effective so far.

 

Be very careful when doing that.

 

I think that is an effective way of letting them know you're not pleased.

 

But, when my first BC was turning "cujo" in her last two weeks, I was doing that to her more frequently. Then the last time I did that to her, she broke loose and bit me in the face twice faster that I could react. I did have to go to the hospital to get fixed up. (And they did report it to animal control!)

 

I only had her for two months. I am no BC expert by any means. All I am doing is giving advise based on my short experience.

[KellyR]

Be very careful when doing that.

 

I think that is an effective way of letting them know you're not pleased.

 

But, when my first BC was turning "cujo" in her last two weeks, I was doing that to her more frequently. Then the last time I did that to her, she broke loose and bit me in the face twice faster that I could react. I did have to go to the hospital to get fixed up. (And they did report it to animal control!)

 

I only had her for two months. I am no BC expert by any means. All I am doing is giving advise based on my short experience.

 

Completely understood.

 

His violence level is decreasing fortunatly. I've only had to do it three times now in 4 weeks. Once for biting, once to quell a dominance issue about doorways, and the last one, nipping over being carried. My experience is that dogs will bite as hard as they think they can. I do not intend to let it escalate to that level, realizing my training limitation. Part of this is the 'no free lunch' that Laurie and I discussed. He needs to see me as the provider. If that means he goes hungry for a day or two (as much as it hurts to see the puppy eyes he gives me when I put the roast beef away), in the long run the ends justify the means in this particular case.

 

As much as my heart would break if he NEVER becomes a love bucket, I can live with that if I've managed to keep him trained and peaceful enough to avoid being euthanized. I've taken a tremendous amount of injury and bled to save this dog and I'm not giving up yet.

[Tassie]

Kelly, it was so nice to see you step back and reflect on how far you have come with HrrGrr. A month is such a short time in the life of a dog, and you and he have made huge progress. So yes, please, do just take things steadily - especially in the couple of weeks after his neuter, while his hormone levels adjust.

 

Yes, taking treats from your hand will be important in the future - but it doesn't mean you can't progress with training before you get that. A top English trainer I've seen will often throw treats for her dogs for some parts of her training. You can start trying that - I would start with the favourite - roast beef? - ask for a behaviour (sit if he's comfortable sitting at the moment), then give your reward marker - like "Yes" - then throw the treat in front of him a bit, and tell him "Get it". If he won't get it while you're near, then for the moment, just move away till you're outside his discomfort zone while he gets his treat - then rinse and repeat - lots of reps as quickly as you can - and only asking for very simple behaviours. You should see a lessening of the distance you need to be away for him to be comfortable about taking the treat. For the moment, your moving away will actually be part of the reinforcement for the behaviour you asked for, but you're pairing it with the food treat, and what you'd hope is that he makes the connection "Do the behaviour asked for, and good things happen for dogs." And both in providing the treat, and giving him space, you are in control of the reward, so you're building up the training relationship whixh will be the foundation of your life together.

 

Patience is key!!!! JMHO And don't forget to concentrate on the good things you've achieved - remember to positively reinforce yourself for those.

[KellyR]

Crappy but cool cell phone pictures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tassie]

Wow - look at that relaxed boy and that loose leash! And he is such a handsome fellow. You must really feel good about how you've been able to bring him from that poor sad little man cowering in the back of his crate, to this gorgeous looking boy surveying his neighborhood.

 

Thanks for posting the pics, Kelly.

[OurBoys]

Great pictures, Kelly! Thanks for sharing!

[Vail]

Wow. He is such a good looking dog.

 

How old did you say you think he is? I swear I saw his twin sister (est 11mo) at the Denver Dumb Friends League yesterday. I wanted to adopt her, but the person that had a reservation to see her first did adopt her. So I'm still looking.

[KellyR]

Wow. He is such a good looking dog.

 

How old did you say you think he is? I swear I saw his twin sister (est 11mo) at the Denver Dumb Friends League yesterday. I wanted to adopt her, but the person that had a reservation to see her first did adopt her. So I'm still looking.

 

He's about 9mos I hear. All of his sisters were black and white tho, and about the same weight >20lbs. He's a tiny guy.

[Rockstar]

Wow. He is such a good looking dog.

 

How old did you say you think he is? I swear I saw his twin sister (est 11mo) at the Denver Dumb Friends League yesterday. I wanted to adopt her, but the person that had a reservation to see her first did adopt her. So I'm still looking.

 

That is sooo funny, I was going to go and look at her and when I called, they said there was a hold on her, and today-her picture was gone off the website. I hope she went to a great home!