Jump to content
BC Boards

Mandatory Spay/Neuter Laws


Recommended Posts

Case in point...if a person has 35 litters and the local law enforcement says they must have clean water, abundant food, kennel space as required by law, shelter, sick animals must be treated by a vet, and record of Rabies vaccination for every dog on the property or be fined. Most places operate on a shoestring...so they pay up, or get out. Most would get out.

 

I know the guy north of us with 300, yest THREE HUNDRED, breeding females on 3-5 foot chains in the broiling sun would be out of business. He'd certainly make less money...perhaps he'd find watermelon truck farming more to his liking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 121
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Enforcing the law would help but in my neck of the woods, I think staffing is a problem. You would be surprised how many people don't even take their dogs in for a rabies shot! Everytime I hear about a dog that has to be put down because it was attacked by a rabid animal and the dog wasn't up-to-date on it's shots, it just makes my blood boil. I love living out in the county but it has definitely been an eye opener.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Around here we have acreage minimums for horses. For example (don't know if my numbers are right here) you need to have 1 acre to have 1 horse, and then half an acre more per horse thereafter. So in order to have 10 horses, you'd need to have 5.5 acres of land.

 

I wonder if something like that could be used to crack down on some of the puppy mills. Say 5 dogs allowed per half-acre... although if some of these guys have big farms and just keep 300 dogs in the barn I guess that doesn't really help. Oh well.

 

 

You know, Missouri state law says that all licensed breeders are subject to yearly inspection and in fact are supposed to be re-inspected by a state vet or whatever yearly. If they enforced that I'm sure it would help some. It might also prevent the ones that do license from licensing again though.

 

I have to say though, that's sort of the way the world works. Every time you make a tougher law, the real criminals find a way around it. You generally at least discourage the casual ones though.

 

Tougher consequences and better definitions for puppy mills, with real enforcement, investigation, and prosecution, would do a world of good. TV publicity would also help, just like dogfighting is getting right now. . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WoobiesMom

Amen. Maybe if a famous athlete or celebrity is found to be running a puppymill, then things will get some attention! I SO want to go and boycott the new puppy store that has opened up in my town! Or print off a copy of IronHorse's description and the Craigslist posting and stand out in front and hand it out to patrons before they go in.

 

I'd probably be the one arrested for loitering or somesuch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does this sound like a puppy mill to you?

 

I went around last summer looking for a dog. I read an ad in the paper that stated it had many different breeds, rescues, and phone #. I called and the lady on the phone told me to come out to see what dogs they had. it was around 20-30 minutes south? of Fort Collins, CO.

When I got there, down a long country road, the lady made me spray my shoes off with a solution. She asked me what breeds I was interested in, that she would bring them out to me. she started making TONS of suggestions. I asked if I could just walk through and see all the dogs and she refused for disease purposes??

 

Anyways, I didnt know what kind of dog I wanted. I told her I was interested in Rat terriers, & border collies/ australian shepherds. She brought out like five fox terriers and an austrailian shepherd. she said they were rescued from a pet store that was closed down and the dogs were found starving. all dogs were $100.

 

well, the aussie was beautiful (but shaking horribly) and I started to play with her. meanwhile, the phone rang and I overheard an excited conversation. "OMG, Mitzie's having puppies? What kind? Of course we'll help you sell them!"

her tone was happy, and I started thinking, what do you mean, what kind? why is she excited about a dog having mixed puppies? I noticed at this time the aussie was pooping pussy diareahh...... intuition started screaming- run away run away.

 

as I left, I looked out my window going down the drive. the property was surrounded by a tall fence and I looked hard and through the slats I saw hundreds of cages.........

 

from time to time I think about that beautiful australian shepherd. what happened to her, should I have bought her, was the lady telling the truth? who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, Tip. IMO, that is a puppymill. Do you still remember where she's located at? Maybe a call to the authorities can help the others. But I have to admit, after reading the link WoobiesMom had, it makes me wonder about the so called authorities.

 

WoobiesMom, you gave me an idea. You are correct when you say if a famous athlete or celebrity got caught running a puppymill it would get some attention. Writing a congressman is a good idea but why stop there? Why not also write famous athletes and celebrities? Ryan Newman, the NASCAR driver, along with some other drivers, is into animal rescue. They have the money status to be heard. If they started getting letters from people who are concerned about puppymills, maybe, just maybe, they will speak up when they have air time?????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does this sound like a puppy mill to you?

 

I went around last summer looking for a dog. I read an ad in the paper that stated it had many different breeds, rescues, and phone #. I called and the lady on the phone told me to come out to see what dogs they had. it was around 20-30 minutes south? of Fort Collins, CO.

When I got there, down a long country road, the lady made me spray my shoes off with a solution. She asked me what breeds I was interested in, that she would bring them out to me. she started making TONS of suggestions. I asked if I could just walk through and see all the dogs and she refused for disease purposes??

 

Anyways, I didnt know what kind of dog I wanted. I told her I was interested in Rat terriers, & border collies/ australian shepherds. She brought out like five fox terriers and an austrailian shepherd. she said they were rescued from a pet store that was closed down and the dogs were found starving. all dogs were $100.

 

well, the aussie was beautiful (but shaking horribly) and I started to play with her. meanwhile, the phone rang and I overheard an excited conversation. "OMG, Mitzie's having puppies? What kind? Of course we'll help you sell them!"

her tone was happy, and I started thinking, what do you mean, what kind? why is she excited about a dog having mixed puppies? I noticed at this time the aussie was pooping pussy diareahh...... intuition started screaming- run away run away.

 

as I left, I looked out my window going down the drive. the property was surrounded by a tall fence and I looked hard and through the slats I saw hundreds of cages.........

 

from time to time I think about that beautiful australian shepherd. what happened to her, should I have bought her, was the lady telling the truth? who knows.

 

Well from the info you posted there sure are Red Flags that would indicate puppymill.

 

You say this was last summer?

does she still run ads?

And what kind of "solution" did she spray on your feet?

If some stranger was spraying something on me I sure as hell would be wanting to know exactly what it was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cant remember exactly where it was but I just checked the Fort Collins Coloradoan newspaper online to see if there was still an ad and there wasnt. I think she may have said it was bleach water? I cant remember. they had a little office so I think I didnt think puppy mill till I was already out the door. (Im a little slow sometimes) I also cant remember exactly where it was but I will try to remember to look online again this sunday, as it is monday and there arent many ads listed today.

 

the whole thing is a little fuzzy because last summer I was grieving the loss of a friend, and had decided to get a dog to help with my grief.

 

Im glad somebody else sees this as my husband totally didnt get it and yelled at me for not helping the poor australian shepherd I told him about........

 

one last thought: I also thought it was strange, when I asked her what the name of the pet store that had closed down or where it was she ignored the question and walked away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly did not wish to sidetrack this thread into a topic about puppymills.

I was only wanting to point out that just because a breeder is "legitimate" doesn't make them a good breeder.

You can use the search option at the top of this page to view a great deal of great information dealing with puppymills.

Or you can start a new topic about puppymills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WoobiesMom

I think you're right about the celebrity angle. I'm going to start googling and figuring out how to contact celebs I've seen working on animal issues. Sarah McLachlan comes to mind, I see a commercial with her on Animal Planet alot. I think the celebs who buy these designer mix Puggles and Labradoodles should be sent a message as well (Jake Gyllenhall). The Awesome BC archived thread made me want to scream. :rolleyes: I think I'll spend the weekend composing some letters to the Missouri Agriculture people as well.

 

I'm definitely plastering my car with puppymill posters and parking it right in front of that petstore that opened in my town while I go eat sushi.

 

Sorry to continue the sidetrack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're right about the celebrity angle. I'm going to start googling and figuring out how to contact celebs I've seen working on animal issues. Sarah McLachlan comes to mind, I see a commercial with her on Animal Planet alot. I think the celebs who buy these designer mix Puggles and Labradoodles should be sent a message as well (Jake Gyllenhall). The Awesome BC archived thread made me want to scream. :rolleyes: I think I'll spend the weekend composing some letters to the Missouri Agriculture people as well.

 

I'm definitely plastering my car with puppymill posters and parking it right in front of that petstore that opened in my town while I go eat sushi.

 

Sorry to continue the sidetrack.

 

A suggestion fwiw,

I don't know how familiar you are with the animal rights group known as PETA.

I do know that their membership reads like a Hollywood Whos Who, it seems to be the "fasionable" thing to do for many celebrities these days.

Before attempting to enlist the support of celebs you may want to take a hard look at PETA and just what their agenda is.

 

Personally I am adamantly OPPOSED to them.

(I am an advocate for genetic diversity in the world that I live in)

 

As for posting letters to the Missouri Dept of agriculture goes let me help by giving you the address;

Missouri Department of Agriculture

Animal Health Division

P.O. Box 630

1616 Missouri Blvd.

Jefferson City, MO 65102

 

 

As for going after this new petstore in your town.

Speaking from personal experiences over the last couple of years I have found the old saying "you can catch more flies with honey then vinagar" rings true.

You may want to concider some "undercover" work to collect intel prior to setting up your "machine gun nest" out front tipping you hand so to speak, sometimes this "direct" attack approach will backfire in your face and actually wind up giving your adversary positive and profitable publicity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WoobiesMom

Thanks for the address. I do know PETA is pretty militant, I wasn't thinking that angle. More the avenue of the ones who do SPCA ads and the like. Betty White, Bob Barker, etc., I don't think they're PETA members. :D

 

I have been in and done some asking with this store. It's recently opened right next door to a store that closed after gaining a rep for selling dogs that had a habit of dying within a month of their purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if the woman claiming to be the owner is just a front for the owners of the previous store or a daughter or something. The former owners were older.

 

They say they don't believe in puppy mills, BUT they don't provide papers and swear their animals come from USDA certified breeders in the midwest. They won't let you see any documentation about where they come from, so that's a HUGE red flag for me. When I asked if they knew about the USDA breeders in Missouri, etc., they said Oh they're not from there, we would NEVER buy from a puppymill! When I asked, so where do they come from, the owner said she has a policy of not revealing that because someone may contact the breeder directly and she does have to make a profit! GAG!!! They're also selling designer mutts for $695 a head. One was a bizarre combo I'd never even heard of -- a papillion and lhasa apso??? Oh yes, they said, very cool and going to be the lastest craze! Gimme a break!

 

My daughter's warning all her friends via myspace not to buy from there. A couple had requests in to their parents to buy from there, Mady's directing them to the shelter she volunteers for. Luv my kid! :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They say they don't believe in puppy mills, BUT they don't provide papers and swear their animals come from USDA certified breeders in the midwest. They won't let you see any documentation about where they come from, so that's a HUGE red flag for me. When I asked if they knew about the USDA breeders in Missouri, etc., they said Oh they're not from there, we would NEVER buy from a puppymill! When I asked, so where do they come from, the owner said she has a policy of not revealing that because someone may contact the breeder directly and she does have to make a profit! GAG!!! They're also selling designer mutts for $695 a head. One was a bizarre combo I'd never even heard of -- a papillion and lhasa apso??? Oh yes, they said, very cool and going to be the lastest craze! Gimme a break!

 

Sounds like a Hunte mill outlet to me.

Sic em!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WoobiesMom

Thanks Brenda! I am going to do some checking and take your advice IronHorse. I think I might take some info in and ask the owner if she's aware of some of the issues with USDA facilities. MAYBE she's clueless, I'll give a person the benefit of the doubt. And I'm going to try to encourage her to just sell the accessories and not the animals, maybe work with a shelter the way that our local PetSmart does. I'll try the peaceful route first, but who sells a puppy for $695 - $1000 and doesn't provide any paperwork? I was getting upset so I left before I could ask about health guarantees, etc. The former store in that location only gave refunds if the animal DIED WITHIN 7 DAYS OF PURCHASE! Turns out my daughter's stepmom bought her first designer toy dog from the former store and it died w/in a couple of weeks and thousands of $$$s in vet bills. When she tried to deal with the owners, they gave her nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laws are to preserve life--not control all general behavior.

 

MSN is akin to making driving illegal due to the harm caused by drunk driving. Driving a car is not a problem until a person drives it irresponsibly. Littering is caused by lazy and slothful actions--hence there are litter laws which fine such actions, not mandate against using packaging. Dog breeding is not the root cause of all of the problems mentioned in this thread.

 

Diminishing the rights of responsible people, whose behavior is reasonably acceptable, moral and legal, is a costly diversion. Ignoring continuous behavior that is problematic is costly indifference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laws are to preserve life--not control all general behavior.

Debatable

 

MSN is akin to making driving illegal due to the harm caused by drunk driving. Driving a car is not a problem until a person drives it irresponsibly. Littering is caused by lazy and slothful actions--hence there are litter laws which fine such actions, not mandate against using packaging. Dog breeding is not the root cause of all of the problems mentioned in this thread.

 

Diminishing the rights of responsible people, whose behavior is reasonably acceptable, moral and legal, is a costly diversion. Ignoring continuous behavior that is problematic is costly indifference.

 

Very well stated :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long thread. And of course I am late due to my compter issues... :rolleyes:

No it should not be criminalized. Not one bit.

At some point people have to be responsible for their own stuff. I own my property. That is if you consider that if I do not pay my property taxes they can take it away from me. So do I really ever own it?

I own my dogs. I need to do the right thing and be responsible. Laws will not take care of irresponsible people anyway. They will make life harder for the responsible folks.

Laws are not for people that abide by them but for the ones that don't.

I would much rather see things like continued ed classes offered for credit towards licenses, rabies shots, or even spay and neuter of non-breed worthy animals that come ouf of good programs so that the breeder can safely place them.

This is not to reward breeding (i.e. up the profit margin) but to reward the concept of learning about breeding, participating in breed related events etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A suggestion fwiw,

I don't know how familiar you are with the animal rights group known as PETA.

I do know that their membership reads like a Hollywood Whos Who, it seems to be the "fasionable" thing to do for many celebrities these days.

Before attempting to enlist the support of celebs you may want to take a hard look at PETA and just what their agenda is.

 

Ironhorse

I think I mentioned PETA in an earlier post. I wasn't saying I think we should get them to help. I was mentioning them to say we should see how they grew to the size they are. How'd they get all that celebrity support? If the celebs really knew what was what I think they'd jump ship if only to save their own reps.

I just can't figure out how they got such good coverage? Was it all neg. that got them there? If so maybe we can use the neg. energy of the puppymills themselves to get to the same spot in the light, only for better reasons.

 

Woobies mom....you are or should be a poster child. Keep going! It's one dog or person at a time. Hopefully we'll get there sooner that later.

 

Kristen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...