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I am fairly new here too, but I was doing some research on spaying/neutering because of my own puppy I just got, and I ran across this -

 

A Female, should NEVER be bred on her first heat,(she has immature eggs) and preferably not her second either. The rule of thumb that works best is to breed on the third season, or at 1.5 to 2 years old, and after all health tests have been passed.

If I were you I would be prepared for some big potential problems and would be making a vet appt. now to either get her spayed, or talk to your vet about what to expect when it comes time for her to have her puppies.

 

Also, while some of the posts do come across as a bit harsh, I totally get it. Most of the people on these boards have 1 to infinity resuce dogs and see the terrible tragedy of unwanted/unplanned litters everyday. Also, just going into petsmart on the weekends and seeing all of those precious puppies in cages needing a home (from the local rescue who brings them every weekend) makes me so sad. I almost feel guilty walking my happy dogs through there. If you do allow her to have the puppies, please make sure you are willing to take the puppies back if they don't work out in their new homes. Sentencing a pup to death just because they were born is a horrible thing to do.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide,

Tammy

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Sherry,

Upon re-reading your original post I see that apparently Candy is now quite close to whelping and as someone else noted, a vet may not be comfortable spaying her now. I think you should still schedule a spay as soon as the pups are weaned. Although I heartily disapprove of your actions to this point, now since you apparently are allowing this pregnancy to come to its conclusion and just in case you are still reading this thread, here is a breeding and whelping timeline that I found very helpful: Liza Lee Miller's article on breeding and whelping

 

She includes a list of things you should have on hand for whelping--get everything she lists, you'll need it. Do have your vet check Candy now to make sure there's nothing abnormal going on and just to make contact in case you need to call during whelping (which doesn't always happen during normal office hours). If you have your own vet actively involved and something goes wrong, you might be able to save yourself an e-vet visit. Find someone who has whelped a litter before to be your buddy--such an experienced person can be a godsend. Do have an approriate whelping box so that Candy doesn't inadvertently crush the puppies when she rolls over. Do have milk replacer available. And stacks of newspapers. Well, I can't really add more than what is in the link.

 

For Candy's sake I hope it's an uneventful whelping. For the puppies' sake, I hope you do your homework and make responsible placements.

 

J.

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As Jesus would counsel us, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone..."

 

Last time I looked breeding a mixed dog wasnt sin. (I think it should be :rolleyes:) That is completely different than what happened here. I firmly believe this wasnt a "mistake" as if it was one, it could have been fixed before now. But instead, this "mistake" is going to add more mixed puppies to the world that is already way overpopulated.

 

That said... I really really hope you take the right steps in finding homes and caring for your dog Sherry. I just can not believe you're willing to put your 9 month old puppy in danger like this. I pray for your kids sake that she doesnt have horrible complications.

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Guest LJS1993

I can understand the passion, however I think some people need to take a deep breath, step away from the computer, and put things in perspective. Attacking people continually in addition with discounting the opinions of other members is neither kind nor going to help the situation.

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As I stated, I offered my opinion. We are each entitled to our viewpoints; and ad hominem attacks will certainly not persuade me to reconsider my position.

 

Fortunately, I'm not out to persuade you of anything. I do, however, hope that anyone else reading this thread gets the point that something that is ENTIRELY PREVENTABLE, and if not prevented, COMPLETELY FIXABLE after the fact, but was not, is certainly no "accident."

 

In this case, we replace the word "accident" with "I-bred-my-dog." Because that's what happened.

 

RDM

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Yeah. The whole have compassion, learn from mistakes thing is fine- but here's the thing. This mistake (as Mr. Snappy already said) happens constantly. If you haven't learned to spay your dog from going to the rescue to get her in the first place, then shame on you. My most recent dog (the one I posted about in the shy puppy thread) wandered into my back yard and brought me plenty of vet bills. That's okay, we're happy he's here. So there's one unwanted dog that's not going to wind up in a shelter. But do you know what I see if I drive past petsmart on a saturday afternoon (which the husband does not encourage me to do)? About fifty more dogs waiting for homes. They're like shark's teeth- even if you pull one out there are several dozen more behind it. It's not just frustrating, it's not just infuriating, it's heartbreaking, and it's overwhelming. It makes me crazy. I have all of the respect in the world for responsible breeders, and I respect everyone who supports them and goes on to do great things with the dogs they have contributed to the world. But I personally will never go to a breeder, there are just too many dogs waiting to go home elsewhere. So when someone posts something like this, and you have the opportunity to get through to the sort of person who is creating the mess that you and so many others feel obliged to clean up- I don't see how I or anyone else could not come across as angry, or why we would bother. Sorry.

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I suppose it's useless to say anything at this point but please, please, get those pups spayed and neutered before you place them, let this mistake end with this litter and not cyle through. To take you at your word, it was a mistake, and the only thing you can do is ensure that the mistake ends with you, is not allow these pups to leave your hands capable of reproducing into the hands of others who can make a similar mistake.

 

I agree that late spay/neuters have their benefits in certain circumstances but in your exact situation, the early spay/neuter benefits far outweigh the fallout of placing intact pups as you clearly do not have the experience necessary to take the proper precautions.

 

Have a good vet on call as whelping time comes close, your female is very young and may need help. Don't fail her. It's us to us to set our dogs up to succeed or fail.

 

Good luck, I know this thread is probably a hard read for you but it would be a much worse world if people didn't care enough to get upset.

Maria

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Sherry, hindsight is 20/20 so I'm sure you didn't need to be told much of the things people have been so anxious to tell you. You admitted you made a mistake and I don't see any reason not to believe you would do it different if you could. Many an accident could have been prevented with better care, but that does not keep it from being an accidnet. It is an unfortunate thing that happened unintentionally. I hope that none of the people casting stones have ever let their dog down. I know I have, and if I could do it over, I would do different.

 

I think you should have the dog spayed if it is not to late. If you can't, you should start contacting all your firends and relatives to start trying to find people who want a puppy. Start now, and ask those people to think of people they may know who would want a puppy. If you can get homes for all the puppies from people you know well, impress on them that they need to get their pup spayed or neutered, or they could end up in the spot you are in. If you end up having to let pups go to strangers, charge $100 for each one and say you will refund the $100 when they give you proof the pup has been spayed w/in 6 months. Then get a book out of the library about dog breeding so you will know what to expect as things get closer. It is a good suggestion to find an experienced person to help you if you can.

 

Good luck. You are not responsible for all the evil in the world.

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They're like shark's teeth- even if you pull one out there are several dozen more behind it. It's not just frustrating, it's not just infuriating, it's heartbreaking, and it's overwhelming.

That was very well put.

 

Let's just leave the breeding to those who will do it carefully and right. Even when the best working breeders are in charge, sh**t happens and it can be expensive and harrowing.

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I don't know what area you're in, but some rescues will list your puppies as a "courtesy listing" on their website, and some of them will use their volunteers to do a home visit/check out references of potential adopters for you, but the pups stay with you until they're placed. I'd suggest contacting rescues in your area and see if one will work with you to find good homes. Even if a rescue doesn't normally offer this service, maybe you could offer them a donation in exchange for helping you.

 

The above is written on the assumption the bitch is so close to whelping that your vet won't spay her. If your vet will spay her, that's my first suggestion.

 

I have a 9 month old pup, and if she were in whelp I'd be terrified for her. In your place, I'd be learning all I could about canine midwifery, and especially how to recognize danger signs early. Do you have good access to emergency vet care 24/7?

 

I get the impression you got this bitch from a rescue. Going back them for help would be a good idea. If nothing else, they need to know one of their animals is about to reproduce.

 

OK - there endeth my constructive advice. The OP may wish to quit reading at this point. I am particularly frustrated with the OP's statement that she decided to leave her bitch intact because of advice she read on this board. Situations like these stuff more arrows into the quivers of those in favor of mandatory spay/neuter laws by demonstrating that even people who know better aren't capable of preventing their intact animals from reproducing. I have an intact nine month old puppy bitch, and the only time she is out of my sight is when she is crated in her bedroom with the doors closed. I have had an intact Lhasa for twelve years, and he has never reproduced. It's just not that hard to keep one's animals from reproducing. Really, truly, it's not. It just requires forethought and caution. Argh.

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There were a couple of people who posted some very good information, and I hope the OP can pick it out amidst the sea of other comments:

 

“I don't actually believe you.” (RDM)

“I do not for a second believe this was a mistake.” (SmileyZookie)

“This stunt is incredible.” (Journey)

“eta: forget it, deaf ears.” (WoobiesMom)

“sounds like a child talking”(Alaska)

“That's just stupid.” (WyoBC)

“Maybe your [sic] just not ‘dog smart’ enough to own a dog right now.” (WyoBC)

“The OP's bitch got pregnant on purpose” (RuffMutt)

“We're all just talking to dead air” (psmitty)

“I think the OP's being disingenuous and far from open.” (Mr. Snappy)

“not the brightest match in the book (dog-wise).” (Tip)

 

“… I doubt it'll make much impact but at least it was said…” (WoobiesMom)

After reading all the comments above, I doubt it, either, unfortunately.

 

“…driving her away with hostility will only continue her ignorance…” (Tip)

You’re absolutely right. Too bad this falls on deaf ears because of your “brightest match” comment.

 

“…are hard-working rescuers who always get stuck cleaning up behind folks who produce unwanted puppies and then hand them off to shelters or rescuers...” (Jack & Co.)

But it in no way gives us rescuers a license to treat people the way this OP has been treated by many of the posters here. (Granted, some are leaders, but most are followers. I’m not sure which is worse.)

 

“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone..." (Bustopher Jones)

Amen.

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Geesh I'm really glad I didn't come here for advise when I accidently got pregant with my second child.

 

I just watched a movie the other day, The Lord of the Flies. You guys gaining up on the op reminds me of that movie. No matter how well meaning the "group" is, if given the oportunity to pounce, they will.

 

Even if there is truth in anything anyone said, deaf is what I'd be, if not just anyone, but almost everyone jumped my shit the way you guys jumped on hers.

 

Hope the op finds what she needs and still continues her journey.

 

RDM...I know you do way more than most will ever dream of in the name of rescue. And I thank you. But that isn't a good enough excuse for such shitty words.

 

slinking off to the other side of the island now....

Kristen

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RDM...I know you do way more than most will ever dream of in the name of rescue. And I thank you. But that isn't a good enough excuse for such shitty words.

 

Really Kristen? What "shitty" words were those? The ones where I said the dog (rescue, PUPPY) should have been spayed already, and if not spayed shouldn't have been walked by a child while in season and been bred, and if that then had to happen, the dog should immediately have been spayed instead of Sherry HOPING IT DIDN'T TAKE??? You have, I take it, some strong objections to any of these truths?

 

I admit I don't see why you'd find any of these sentences unreasonable.

 

Or was it the whole paragraphs of advice on raising and placing puppies you object to Kirsten? (Maybe I didn't use enough foul language in my post to satisfy your sensibilities? )

 

Here's the thing. The discussion pendulum has swung full circle to the predictable part where people start jumping on the opposing bandwagon because they have forgotten what the actual topic was about (irresponsible, completely avoidable, potentially intentional - and if not intentional, certainly subconsciously permissible - and completely redeemable, breeding of a 9 month old rescued mixed breed puppy) and now have decided to fight for the little guy. I almost had a pool going as to when this faction would start chiming in, down to the hour. It'd be laughable, if it wasn't so sad that we are forgetting that someone has just forced their rescued puppy to have more puppies in an country where hundreds of thousands of puppies lose their chubby little lives every year in gas chambers and the like. (Your bloody country still has NIGHT DROP and roadside once-a-week-shoot-'em cages. Your problem is BIG. Recognize it.)

 

I do not apologize for leading the charge and I do not apologize for what people said afterward. Those people are responsible for their own posts and thoughts. But I also did not call her a bad mother, a sorry excuse for a human being, a child, stupid or any of the things that the underdog team is so irate about. Nor did I offer any opinions on those sentiments. I pointed out that this was preventable, and that a fix was possible. I gave her advice, but didn't follow it with hugs and kisses admittedly. I asked no one to defend my position and fully expected people to disagree with me and said as much. Because I STILL don't think this was entirely accidental and funnily enough, as has been pointed out many times in this very thread, we are all entitled to our opinions and to express them. My OPINION is that this was no mere accident.

 

So if you would like to disagree with something specific that I said, I am open to debate. If you want to vilify me and make the gang leader of some kind of mob mentality, that's dirty fighting Kristen. It's also worse than lame, as far as discussion or debate goes. I had the integrity to validate my opinion and also to offer the advice she sought. You, OTOH, posted to shame people, call them sheep and use profanity and accuse me, baselessly.

 

What happened between my post and yours is not my responsibility. And to come full circle, I am not the one letting my mutt puppy have more puppies, which is the topic, actually. So if you would like to debate the merit of my posts I welcome your discourse. Otherwise, stay on your "side of the island."

 

RDM

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So, how close to term is it safe to spay a pregnant bitch?

 

Depends on the risk to the female to deliver. At 9 months a small, mixed breed female is quite likely to have serious, life threatening complications during whelping.

 

As a tech, I saw them spayed up to the 9th and final week. At that point the pups haved to be individually euthanized as well. It's not pretty, but neither is homing and placing a large litter of unwanted mixed breed pups frankly. And if the option is that you may be putting the mother down as well...I see little choice.

 

RDM - brava! There is no need to sugar coat the truth.

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You know, I am all about trying to be little Mary Sunshine. (I know, I can see RDM rolling her eyes cause I was a moron on another thread but bear with me). I really do try to stay upbeat and positive, and I am right there with those of you who pointed out that people are way more likely to "get" the lesson, the point, whatever, if it is taught with love and patience.

 

That is such a beautiful sentiment and thankfully, it's true.

 

Sadly, it's also true that some people need a whack upside the head with the clue stick. Negative reinforcement does work. There it is. There is room for all kinds of lessons.

 

So the OP has gotten a little of both. Hopefully something will stick.

 

In the meantime, maybe since it's possible the rescue Candy from is not doing it's due diligence, is it possible to dig up other resources in the area? Like maybe, a vet who does late term spays? Or, maybe the rescue Candy is from really does need to be made aware of the situation (by Sherry) and they can help her figure out what to do next?

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I personally have a female puppy right now and you know what? As soon as she's old enough I'm running, no walking, to the vet to have her spayed.

 

Why? Cause it's right thing to do? Absolutely.

 

But also because I fear RDM may walk from BC to Newfoundland and pummel the stupidity out of me if that ever happened. :rolleyes: lmao!!

 

*pictures RDM putting on superhero suit with big R for rescue on it and heading out the door*

 

"where ya goin RDM?"

 

"Newfoundland. Some idiot let her puppy get pregnant."

 

:D

 

Ah, I kid, I kid! RDM, keep it up girl, keep it up. I love how you never back down. If you ever decide to teach a class on it, lemme know, I'll book the flight to BC :D

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Depends on the risk to the female to deliver. At 9 months a small, mixed breed female is quite likely to have serious, life threatening complications during whelping.

 

As a tech, I saw them spayed up to the 9th and final week. At that point the pups haved to be individually euthanized as well. It's not pretty, but neither is homing and placing a large litter of unwanted mixed breed pups frankly. And if the option is that you may be putting the mother down as well...I see little choice.

 

Yikes. :rolleyes: Good point.

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Sherry, if you are still reading this add one more vote for getting your pup spayed now and aborting the pregnancy. It's the right thing to do to protect the wellfare of your dog. 9 months is far too young. If you really didn't want her to get pregnant in the first place, go get her spayed. If you did then you are being cruel not only to Candy but to the pups she could have.

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I don't think Candy came from an actual rescue. ISTM that in the original post asking if she was a mix Sherry said she was rescued, but it was from a farm situation and not through a formal rescue group. So I don't think there is either a rescue at fault or one that can be turned to for help now--I mean there are rescues she could turn to for help, but there wasn't a rescue from which she originally got Candy that she can ask for help now.

 

Sherry,

I don't know of any rescues in Arkansas, though there may be one or more. Mokan may be able to help, and there is a rescue group in Nebraska as well. If I were in your situation, I think I would ask a rescue for help as they will be much mroe experienced at vetting possible homes and placing dogs than you are. They will also make sure the pups are neutered before going to new homes.

 

Yes, it may be pushing a problem off on a rescue, but frankly I'd rather see the pups have a really good chance of landing in responsible forever homes, and a legitimate rescue group is the best chance they have.

 

J.

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This thread particularly hits me today :D A friend of mine's son had/has two Border Collies. A 2 yrr. old female and had an 8 month old male. The male got hit by a car and killed :-( anyway they called me to see if I knew anyone with pups. During the conversation he told me that he had planned to breed the 8 mo. old male to his bitch, before he got killed :-( He told me he wanted a good stock dog (he has no experience with stock dogs) well I gave him the speech of course...told him first of all you don't breed that way, unproven dogs etc...and that instead of a pup, which would be a crap shoot as to whether it would work or not, how about an older or started dog....good! he agreed. Well a friend of mine had a young un papered Border Collie that he'd started on sheep but thought would be more suitable for work on cattle...well long story short the kid went out and saw the dog, had a long talk with my trainer, thought we were all on the same page :D they both agreed he would have the dog cut...my trainer gave him the dog. This morning the mother calls me and tells me, oh guess what? You guessed it :D He let the dog breed his bitch ;-( 'Accidently' :rolleyes: he knew she was in, but he thought she'd gone out, and he woke up to 'strange noises' (both dogs sleep in the bed with him evidently) I was just livid. WTF is wrong with people? Hind sight we should have just cut the dog first before giving it to him...but you think you could take people at their word. Just makes me sick.

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