WE did it, but did not mean to.

[stockdogranch]

I'll just agree with whomever said it earlier--SPAY. HER. NOW. It will be costlier than if she were not already bred, but is really the only solution at this point.

Anna

[Laurae]

It's WAY cheaper than a litter of pups.

[Dana Nichols]

Well, I think a great deal of peoples' frustration with your initial post is that there are several comments that revealed you were not adequately dealing with an intact bitch to insure she would not get bred. I'm sure it was probably because you didn't know rather than you actually wanted her to have puppies, but frankly either way, it's why your puppy bitch is now pregnant. For instance, you indicated that you were continually calling the neighbor to get his male dog out of your yard. You gave this as an example of how responsible you were being, but if you were continually calling, then the male dog had access to your yard and was in it several times. If you are going to be safely keeping an intact bitch, you need to have a yard set up that prevents male dogs from getting into your yard & having access to your bitch. It's not your neighbor's dog who will be going through whelping. If you own an intact female who is in heat, you have a responsibility to her to keep her safe from all male dogs. When you have a bitch in heat, no one should be taking her for a walk anywhere, much less around the neighborhood where at least one male dog is running loose. That, again, is not appropriate care for a bitch in heat. And, like several people have said, if you have a 9 month old bitch that you know was accidentally bred, the responsible course is to immediately contact a vet to have her spayed at that point.

 

Another concern is that you sound like you may not realize the possible consequences of your actions even now. It's not just that she's going to have a litter and you'll need to find responsible homes for the puppies. It's that you stand a very good chance of not only losing several puppies during delivery, but also of losing your bitch as well. Whelping is never a simple, clean, safe procedure, but with a bitch who is only 9 months old, it can be downright dangerous. That's why so many people are advocating that you contact a vet immediately to see if you can safely get her spayed now.

[Alaska]

I respect the OP's decision to bow out of this thread. However, since my message to her doesn't seem to have been understood the way I meant it, I would like to try to clarify it for anyone else who is reading and perhaps wondering what I was trying to say.

 

This is what I think the OP was, more or less, attempting to ask the board in her original post:

 

"I mistakenly allowed my dog to get pregnant before she could be spayed. I did not intend or want this to happen, but now it has, and I would like to do the right thing from this point on. I am seeking advice about how to get her puppies into suitable homes as I have never been in this situation before."

 

Notice the difference? The daughter is not part of the story, and I don't see why she should have been.

 

When I read the original post, I saw someone who spent the first 3/4 of the post making excuses for why the dog got pregnant, and, to me, trying to shift part of the blame onto a third party who was not present and who happened to be her own daughter ("you never no what kids are going to do"). I don't believe there was any reason to bring up the daughter, unless it was to somehow relieve the OP of some of the responsibility for this situation. I have seen some parents do this in internet discussions before, and I don't think they realize they are doing it, but if their child were present and listening, I would hope that the parent would simply say that a mistake was made and leave the child's role out of the public discussion. I'm sure the OP is indeed proud of her daughter, and justifiably so. This is exactly why it bothers me when a parent says less-than-complementary things about their own child to strangers who, as the OP rightfully points out, know nothing else about the child.

 

The "tragic mistake" I referred to was the dog's unwanted pregnancy, not, heaven forbid, the daughter!

[RaisingRiver]

Just want to point out that the wait to spay until your dog is done growing theory is not that spaying will stunt your dog's height, but I believe that it spaying early makes your dog grow taller thereby making your dog taller then was intended by the size of the rest of its body. Not a big deal, but for those in sports, looking for a dog to have less injuries, agile requirements, etc, it could make a difference. In general, I think those who are waiting for those reasons *tend* to be diligent dog owners.

[WyoBC]

I can't believe you could let your daughter take an unspayed female out on a walk when she's in heat. That's just stupid. There's far to many homeless dogs in this world. Working at a humane society I see dogs come and go every day that should have loving homes but they don't because careless owners let them run free and breed other dogs.

 

BUT that being said I don't think your a bad mother or bad person. I don't know you. Maybe your just not "dog smart" enough to own a dog right now.

[AK dog doc]

FWIW, the last C-section I did (Monday night around midnight, actually) was done one a dog intentionally bred at the age of one year. Had she not had a C-section she would have certainly died (malpresented puppy, which she was attempting to whelp out sideways; the bitch was exhausted and there was free stool in the amnion, which was ruptured. EXCELLENT for the lining of the uterus. Not). Many bitches that young don't have what it takes to successfully whelp and rear a litter - not to mention that they are not done growing. It's kind of like having kids when you're twelve. Not easy on the mother physically OR socially. I think that people are concerned about the dog. This poses and unnecessary risk to her, totally apart from the unwanted puppy problem.

 

I guess I don't understand where the notion that you can't spay an in-heat bitch comes from... or the notion that you can't spay a pregnant one. We do it all the time. Even if you want to let your dog "mature naturally" (as in, come into heat before you spay - which, BTW DOES make for a smaller stature, not a larger one) you can still spay her if an accidental breeding occurs. Then you've had the "benefits" (?) of the hormones AND you've eliminated the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy. YOU DO HAVE TO PREVENT THE BITCH FROM BEING BRED AFTER THE SPAY, HOWEVER. I put that in caps because it's extremely important.

 

I think that the reason for the agitated posts is that everyone is extremely frustrated. This was an avoidable situation, and if not avoided, could have been (perhaps could still be) rectified before yet more puppies appear in the world. It may not be fun to have people point out that one screwed up, especially when one is already feeling bad about it, but the fact of it is that if one doesn't want to hear people's thoughts on the matter, it's better not to ask for input on an open forum. The sticky at the top of each forum makes the Board's position on breeding pretty clear. It can't be a surprise that people are frustrated, nor that they've been direct in expressing their opinions. I'm reasonably certain that at least a few people have restrained themselves with difficulty from being significantly more - um - FIRM in that regard.

[MrSnappy]

I'm just.so.tired. So tired. My heart just breaks into a thousand pieces, over and over again.

 

Now I know why rescuers burn out.

 

More along the vein of AK Dog Doc's post:

 

Not all it's cracked up to be, breeding.

 

RDM

[AKB]

I'm new- so I hope I'm not too out of line, and I don't want to beat a dead horse but get her spayed now. Getting a rescue dog is great, but if you're just going to turn around and add to the overpopulation problem, seriously, what's the point? You said in your original post something to the effect of "can't have too many, right?" Yes, we in fact can have too many. At any given time, there are over 100,000 dogs listed on petfinder alone. Millions of companion animals are euthanized every year because of exactly what happened with your dog. For every puppy you find a home, think of how many others are languishing in shelters. I love my mutts. I value my mutts. But as much as I love them, the world doesn't need another litter of unwanted mutts right now.

[RaisingRiver]

Even if you want to let your dog "mature naturally" (as in, come into heat before you spay - which, BTW DOES make for a smaller stature, not a larger one) you can still spay her if an accidental breeding occurs.

 

Thanks for clarifying - since my dog is now fixed, I guess I forgot which way it was... hehe. So much doggie info, so little brain

[AK dog doc]

I'm new- so I hope I'm not too out of line, and I don't want to beat a dead horse but get her spayed now. Getting a rescue dog is great, but if you're just going to turn around and add to the overpopulation problem, seriously, what's the point? You said in your original post something to the effect of "can't have too many, right?" Yes, we in fact can have too many. At any given time, there are over 100,000 dogs listed on petfinder alone. Millions of companion animals are euthanized every year because of exactly what happened with your dog. For every puppy you find a home, think of how many others are languishing in shelters. I love my mutts. I value my mutts. But as much as I love them, the world doesn't need another litter of unwanted mutts right now.

 

 

Execllent point.

 

Raising River, you had it right. Prepubertal spay = taller, going through puberty = smaller stature.

[RaisingRiver]

Raising River, you had it right. Prepubertal spay = taller, going through puberty = smaller stature.

 

Oh!! I should probably stop reading the forums after midnight so my brain can process properly, lol!! So yay, I'm not losing my mind!

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

I think it's a moot point by now. The OP's bitch got pregnant on purpose and she'll be damned if she's spaying the bitch now despite all of the useful information people have provided. It's just sad. Really. Sad.

[Jack & Co.]

This whole topic brings back very unpleasant memories for me.

 

When my boys decided that it was time for another dog, we chose to adopt from the animal shelter. Even though we did leave that day with our wonderful Jack, I will never forget the packed runs full of unwanted dogs, barking for our attention, as we left with our new family member. LOTS of puppies were at the shelter looking for their new home----the pretty Labs and boxers were in the front office where they could catch visitors' eyes. The mutt puppies were outside with the rest of the adult dogs where they were exposed to diseases and worms. (I know because I spent $500 getting my little guy well.) To this day, almost 2 years later, my teenage sons still grieve that we weren't able to take Jack's shy sibling with us. Wonder whatever happened to him/her? OP, you do know what happens at kill shelters, don't you?

 

If you choose not to spay, please work hard to find GOOD homes for the puppies. The shelter is a tough place for a baby.

[PSmitty]

We're all just talking to dead air...but if she won't spay her now, I'll advise the OP to make sure the pups are spayed/neutered and that Candy is, as well. Make sure it will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

 

I wish you would go visit some shelters and then come back the next week. Wonder what happened to all those cute dogs and puppies that aren't there anymore? Trust me, they don't all get good homes and fairy tale endings, most of them leave out the back door.

 

And I won't call you a bad mother or imply anything about your child, but you said it yourself: IRRESPONSIBLE. That's you.

[Tip]

im new to this board and dont wish to overstep any boundries. as far as the OP's question my own answer would also be, get her spayed now. I agree with all of the advice- HOWEVER,

 

we can all assume, because of the large amounts of unwanted puppies, that the majority of dog owners are not as knowledgeable or responsible as those of us who make the right choice and spay/neuter. therfore, it is in my humble opinion, that those of us who are smart in this regard must use our wisdom to be teachers. a good teacher does not condemn her student. please, beautiful posters, watch your tempers. this person came to your board, to ask all of you, for help.

 

even if you think, she is a complete irresponsible idiot, driving her away with hostility will only continue her ignorance. i instead, would invite her to knowledge. im not saying to hold back the truth, but to speak it in a manner as you would wish to be spoken to.

 

thats all. (sorry for the rant.)

[juliepoudrier]

Having deliberately bred my best working bitch at age 4 (a well-planned and -thought-out breeding designed to produce excellent working dogs; a litter for which there was a waiting list) and having gone through a difficult pregnancy during which I worried for the health of my bitch the entire time, and where at one point I simply said to the vet "if you tell me it's best for Twist to spay her now and lose the puppies, I'll do it," I find it hard to understand a cavalier attitude to "accidentally" allowing a youngster to be bred. Even when you came back and posted, you latched onto the comments about your daugher but made no acknowledgment to the suggestions that you could still spay the poor bitch. That makes me suspicious that you really did want her bred or at least didn't really care one way or the other. And really, it's not the daughter's fault, but if I were walking my in-heat bitch (just did so this past weekend at a trial), I could certainly keep intact male dogs away from her. A child probably could not. I understand that the child may have disobeyed the parents in this case, but the poor pup shouldn't have to pay the price. However you, the OP, may feel about taking the lives of pups via spaying the bitch, just remember that it could be a better outcome for the pups than the uncertain futures they'll have if you aren't 100% successful in finding perfect forever homes for them. I certainly don't blame your daughter, but I do blame YOU for not doing the right thing--spaying your bitch--once you knew she was bred, or even now. The only exception I would make is if she was due to whelp any day now.

 

And I second the suggestion that you turn the puppies (and some money) over to rescue as soon as they are weaned. Then you can be assured that they will be neutered and placed in the best possible home.

 

 

When I lost Kat when I first moved to the central Piedmont area of NC, the local shelters required me to walk through and look for my dog (who was not there). It was absolutely heartbreaking. I have great admiration for those of you who work in such places--I would probably end up suicidal.

 

And to the OP, perhaps you should keep all the puppies, but only if you can manage to spay or neuter all of them before any more accidents happen.

 

ETA: Tip, I understand your comments, but the culture of this board is pretty clear, and anyone who joins and actually reads the "read this first" post or even just reads any of the threads over a period of time will know this. Sherry hasn't been here long, but she certainly should have known the sort of reaction she'd get for announcing an accidental breeding, especially when there was no evident remorse for it or any seeming concern for the cost to both the bitch and the pups should things not go perfectly and the pups not all find perfect forever homes.

 

J.

[Pippin's person]

I agree that the only real choice at this juncture is to spay your dog (and I'm glad that you are still reading the thread--it's hard to be told so bluntly about the mistakes you've made, but that is one way we learn both how to fix them and how to prevent similar mistakes in the future).

 

However, from what you've said about hoping nothing happened but now knowing that she's pregnant, I assume that she's probably going to whelp soon. Once the dog is "showing" enough (since I'm assuming you didn't have her palpated by a vet, right?), I think that the whelping is probably close. (I'm not a vet, though, so I could be wrong). I have no idea what the relative risks are for spaying a dog that is close to whelping.

 

Please go back and read RDMs original post very carefully and take detailed notes about what whelping and raising a litter of puppies will entail. Start enlisting help of all sorts now.

 

My neighbor adopted a dog (a pit mix) from a rescue organization and, on her vet's advice, waited to spay her for two weeks to let her get acclimated to her new home. When she brought the dog in two weeks later to be spayed--surprise, she was pregnant (it's a long story about how an unspayed bitch was available for adoption through a rescue, and it's not my point, so I won't tell it here). The vet estimated the whelping was about a week away and that was pretty much true. The vet did not feel comfortable spaying a dog that close to whelping. The puppies came Valentine's Day.

 

The female was about a year old and had been a stray for who knows how long. My friend bought about $300 worth of books about whelping puppies and read every one. She cried several times at the knowledge of all the things that could happen to either her new dog or to the puppies.

 

She had several consults with her vet about what to expect and do. She posted on forums and got advice. She built a whelping box and turned one of the rooms of her house into puppy central. She had a dog sitter come and check several times a day while she was waiting for the puppies (that was $25 a visit). Once the dog went into labor, she called us and we were up all night with her and the delivering mother. She called the emergency vet twice for advice when labor seemed stalled and had the car ready with blankets and other items in case she had to bring the dog in.

 

The dog had nine puppies, two were stillborn and one died after about a week. My friend took two weeks off of work to be with the puppies, which she had to do because the mother had almost no interest in them--didn't want to nurse them and generally acted like they were a bother. My friend slept on the floor of the room so that she could make her dog stay with the puppies. It truly was like a 12 year old had had a baby. When she had to run out, she had someone come check on the brood. So, that's something you should start getting ready for. I don't know how much she paid on vaccinating, de-worming, etc. the pups--but it wasn't a pittance.

 

As soon as she knew Monty was pregnant (and after her shock), she sent regular e-mails to everyone she knew asking about people interested in a puppy. She sent pictures of the puppies once they were born and regular updates. From the time the pups were born, she enlisted all her friends and neighbors to come over and handle them, talk to them, cuddle them. (She decided to take a calculated risk that they wouldn't get parvo or other awful diseases because as pit bull mixes, she wanted to make sure they were well socialized to people). She made sure people with a variety of physical characteristics were with the puppies. She also enlisted neighbor dogs to come over to help socialize them to other dogs. (ETA--that is once they were old enough to go outside--they were about 4 or 5 weeks old then).

 

Every puppy went to someone she knows very well and she offered to cover the costs of spaying/neutering and also offered free dog sitting for the life of the puppies (they are now almost four and she has kept her word--one of them is with her about once every two months). She has regular contact with all the owners and keeps track of how the puppies are doing. Of course, she promised to take them back at any point if there was any trouble. (ETA: The puppies went out under a standard contract that she got on-line, I think--but she did not sell them since she had already decided that she'd only place them with people she knew or friends of friends)

 

Obviously, the world didn't need this litter of puppies, just as it doesn't need the one that you've allowed to occur; however, if you will not spay Candy now, then you truly have to do everything you can at this point to ensure that these dogs are properly vetted, socialized and placed. And placed with people you can keep in contact with in case there's a problem. I personally am not an advocate of infant spay/neuter, but that is certainly something you should consider seriously at this point. And you have to prepare yourself for the various eventualities that could occur--including having a plan in place to help Candy if labor stalls or if she doesn't want to care for the litter because she's too young. Definitely have milk replacer on hand.

 

And, as one means of trying to work out the bad karma this has caused, if it were me, I'd write a HUGE check to the rescue I got Candy from--or some other organization that does the heartbreaking work of dealing with litters like the one you're about to put on the ground.

[Jack & Co.]

Tip, since you are new, you probably don't know that many of the "beautiful posters", as you called them, are hard-working rescuers who always get stuck cleaning up behind folks who produce unwanted puppies and then hand them off to shelters or rescuers. I'm sure RDM and The Ruff Mutt Gang can provide more details on this neverending job if you need them.

 

Possibly you mistook "temper" for "passion" and "frustration".

[MrSnappy]

im not saying to hold back the truth, but to speak it in a manner as you would wish to be spoken to.

 

I would hope, that if I did something so sublimely irresponsible as allow my child to take my rescued mixed breed PUPPY - whom I had failed to spay in a timely manner - out for a walk to be bred by a passing dog, and then sat around with my head up my arse pretending it wasn't happening until the pups were nearly on the ground, that my peers would not only tell me in no uncertain terms what a selfish, moronic and short sighted thing I had done, but would also bodily shake me until my teeth rattled in my head.

 

You get out of this world what you put into it and frankly, the OP has contributed to a massive subculture of the population who is directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of dogs in North America every.single.year.

 

If all she gets is a tongue lashing from people, she's getting off pretty easily, all things considered.

 

RDM

[OurBoys]

I don't believe Candy was adopted from a reputable rescuer. I was wondering why she wasn't already spayed before being adopted or at least had a contract insisting it be done. After going to the link Alaska provided, it sounds like Candy was a victim of irresponsible breeding. Poor thing, and now this.

 

I believe the OP just is not 'dog smart'. I don't question the OP's being a good mother but if she was 'dog smart' she never would have let her daughter take Candy for a walk in the first place. What if the male dog was already of an aggressive nature? We all know how much more aggessive a male gets when they get around a bitch in heat. Her daughter could have been seriously injuried if she had tried to intervene.

 

How do you educate people who don't think it's a serious subject unless they find themselves in it? Why don't they have commercials on TV showing in detail what happens to these poor animals? Why can't they have a class in school teaching responsibility of pets in elementary schools (along with balancing a checkbook and managing money in high school)? Only in a perfect world, I know.

 

Rescuers and dentists are the only people I know who try to work themselves out of business. The OP should give a fat check to the closest reputable rescue service near her.

[BustopherJones]

Confucius said, "Things that are done, it is needless to speak about; things that have had their course, it is needless to remonstrate about; things that are past, it is needless to blame." If people did not make mistakes, God would not have put erasers on pencils. We have an opportunity to learn from another's mistake, and that this is in part what this board is about. Sherry was open and honest with her mea culpa; at this point, she is looking for guidance. We would be wise (and compassionate) to offer kindly advice, as hopefully we would to any other participant on this board. As Jesus would counsel us, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone..."

 

But then again, that is only my opinion...

[sandra s.]

Very well said Bustopher, thank you. I was trying to find a way to say the same.

[MrSnappy]

We have an opportunity to learn from another's mistake, and that this is in part what this board is about.

 

Oh baloney. Thousands upon thousands of people make this "mistake" every year. Someone's making it right now as I type, I'm sure. One can learn from the mistakes of others and not repeat those mistakes themselves. If you need a baseball to smack you in the face before you believe that baseball's hurt, you're just a poor learner.

 

Sherry was open and honest with her mea culpa; at this point, she is looking for guidance.

 

Well I guess that's one of the many areas you and I differ. I think quite the opposite - I think the OP's being disingenuous and far from open. Her staunch refusal to even acknowledge the advice that she have her dog spayed as a fix to her 'mistake' speaks to just how "open and honest" she's being.

 

RDM

[Tip]

jack & co, very true whats said. but when I am angry at my son, I may be passionate and frustrated because I am afraid of his safety. but I am careful to show him that I care, not just that Im mad.

 

all im trying to say, is that (very sorry) the OP is obviously, not the brightest match in the book (dog-wise). if she were, she would have spayed. she would not need to know how to find good homes. she would not need to post and ask this. so, although the rescuers who are awesome enough to make such a great sacrifice to help clean up the messes of the ignorant & irresponsible, here we have a woman who is asking for help. chances are she will need much, much more help but probably will not risk asking for it here, which I consider unfortunate because there are so many cool people here who are filled with knowledge. (which I plan to soak up some!) it is also unfortunate because now there are many more dogs under her care.

 

RDM, bless you for your passion. I know it hurts you because you care so deeply and every word you speak from your heart. you are right, a tounge lashing alone is getting off easy. I shouldnt interfere, perhaps its exactly what she needed. (forgive me, incurable optimist I am)