Someone please explain this to me!!!

[Nik]

Not that it's an important issue or anything...more out of curiosity. I could just be over thinking it also but here is the scenario:

 

My dogs want to please me (although they do tend to show their stubborness quite often) most of the time. I'm leader of the pack I guess you could say. And here's the order of the rest of the dogs.

 

Gracie (who is 1/4 of Pache and Navi's size) seems to be leader when it comes to JUST the dogs. Basically what she says goes most of the time. I have seen them both grovel in front of her on occasion.

 

Then Pache, who tends to try and be top dog by taking toys when he wants them...blah blah the usual stuff that leader dogs do, but Gracie still has the upper hand. Oh and Pache can be somewhat of a ticking timebomb at times too. I have to read him very carefully and put a stop to his bossiness (when it gets to that point), otherwise his temper can show quite easily. (I think he may have fear issues).

 

Then Navi who just wants to be by my side at ALL times. He tends to only show resource guarding (Me in this case) when the others want my attention or DH or kids.

 

With that little bit of background out of the way let's get down to the nitty gritty. Pache can take anything (stick, chew toy, etc.) he wants from Gracie w/o her putting up a fight. BUT he will lay there and let her hunch him w/ no thought whatsoever about trying to stop her. She can also correct him if he's doing something that she doesn't think is very nice and he just cowers to her most of the time when she does this.

 

Now Navi WILL NOT stand for Gracie trying to hunch him at all. And she pretty much knows better than to even try. But he will cower to her in the same way that Pache does on anything else. It takes alot for Navi to lose his temper w/ the other two but he also doesn't back down very easily when he does. He's the more playful of the 3.

 

I just had one of those moments while watching all 3 interact together that I really appreciate each one for their own personalities, but at the same time awestruck at the differences that each one tolerates w/ one particular but wouldn't tolerate w/ the other.

 

Please by all means put your thought out their on this kind of interaction and what to make of it. I'm interested in how someone on the outside of our pack would explain this.

[Tassie]

Interesting observations, Nicki. I do think the 'hierarchy' is a somewhat fluid thing, and can depend on context. With my 2, my girl is boss dog in most ways - she will give 'the look' to prevent Fergus (1/3 heavier) from going womewhere she doesn't want him to go, but in some contexts, she acts submissive.

[Kitch]

With my two (soon to be back to just Dublin on Friday) there is a weird relationship. Dublin is obviously the dominant one. Mick won't even think about trying to take food or toys from Dublin and defers to Dublin on how to respond to new situations. Dublin has humped Mick and Mick just stands there.

 

Dublin often tries to get Mick to play tug and wrestle with him but this usually makes Mick uneasy. As soon as Dublin tugs on the toy, Mick usually releases it and steps back. This frustrates Dublin to no end. They have had some tugging sessions and wrestling sessions but these are relatively rare.

 

In other ways, Mick will barrel past Dublin on the stairs or doorway and cut Dublin off in his general exuberance. You can almost hear Dublin sigh at this point and he pauses to let Mick get by. It isn?t important to Dublin to be first out the door ? maybe because before I had my backyard fenced, I was *always* the first one out and Dublin is used to waiting??

 

Dublin will not even make direct eye contact with my cats and goes out of his way to avoid disturbing them. He always knows where they are in relation to him and will not get a toy, etc, if it is too near them. If they go after him, he immediately runs to me and cowers. Mick, OTOH, is generally oblivious of the cats? location and thinks nothing of barreling through them if he needs to get to a toy, etc. When they take offense and go after them, he turns and goes right back at them. He doesn?t hurt them or even make contact but he doesn?t take their crap either. (This has been a great learning experience for my cats and they have become less bullying ? I don?t know how long this change in attitude will last once Mick leaves?).

[Kitch]

Double post...

[Beth G]

Ny two have that same weird relationship. People tell me it is because females can get away with more. Don't know if it's true...?

 

 

Poppy is the dominant one but Pepper sure does get away with alot.

[Bordercentrics]

I think in general the males tend to be quite indulgent with the females, to the point that the females often appear to be in charge. But through the years, I have observed that if things get serious, the boy takes over, especially if protecting his girl is called for.

 

Kathy Robbins

[Kat's Dogs]

I know that size means nothing - the 10 pound shih tzus is WAY above the 30 pound border collie! If Dazzle wakes up Popcorn (the tzu) by stepping one her (it happens often) Popcorn will growl and Dazzle goes all to pieces trying to roll over for her!

 

It is interesting where even though we people are the leaders, the dogs still have order after us. Our order is Popcorn, then Peanut, and last Dazzle. Popcorn is oldest, Daz is youngest. So our hierarchy seems to be just decided by age.

 

I would think that is common way to decide pack order, more than male/female. But I don't know.

[Luke and Abbys Mom]

Yup I agree with Kathy Robins... I have a 5 year old female BC whom I adopted 2 years ago and a 9 year old Male (fixed) Rottie who is a sweet boy but........... NO ONE and I mean NO ONE enters is dog house until Abby came around... Well Xan isn't even allowed in his OWN dog house anymore. and he LETS it HAPPEN! I think though if push came to shove and she pushed it he would tell her what for... But is is for darn sure that if the other male dogs we have (Jake 9yr BC, Max 18 yr GSD/wolf and Luke 12 week old BC) were to think they could tell Abby what to do Xan would put a stop to it and stick up for his girl! (even though she is a crank pot and kicked him OUT of the dog house! hahahahaha)