Getting out to the sheep

[Guest Margaret Wheeler]

Hi Lori,

 

Again, welcome and thanks for filling the big expert shoes.

 

Do you have any suggestions for handlers who don't have regular access to a big field as far as helping the dog find the sheep on a longish outrun at a trial?

 

I had this problem this weekend. Lucky for me I had some advice then and there as far as how to handle the problem in the short term. Nell had 4 runs: two in nursery and two in novice novice. She didn't find her sheep at all in nursery but in novice novice she did better. In the first novice novice class I stopped her after she had crossed over and redirected her. She overran the sheep after the redirect but eventually fetched them. On the second run novice novice run she did better. I forgot to check my score sheet, but I think she got a decent Outrun and Lift (although even then I think she was a little uncertain lifting them).

 

Are there exercises that can be done in a smallish field that will help prepare us for this situation?

 

<small>[ July 20, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Margaret Wheeler ]</small>

[Guest Lori]

Hey Margaret-

 

The problem you're describing is a really common one in young dogs. Some dogs are certainly better at "looking" for sheep than others, but there are several things you can do to help your pup get better at spotting them. Some of this may be basic, but hopefully, worth the review.

 

First, have a command to tell your dog to look for sheep, and also an affirmation phrase to reinforce that she's seen them, or at least is looking in the right direction. I start this training as soon as a pup is old enough to know what "sheep" are. When you enter your field to train, make it a routine to ask your dog, "See your sheep?" Do this in your small field, even when it's obvious the dog can easily see the sheep. When her head snaps in the correct direction, affirm "Good! There they are!" (Those are the commands I use.) You're setting up a routine you'll use later.

 

Take maximum advantage of your spectating time at trials to practice spotting sheep on a strange field. Periodically, take your dog to the fence during a run and ask her "See your sheep?" If she doesn't see them right away, or looks in the wrong direction, gently tell her "no....Look." Don't make this a harsh correction, just a quiet re-direction. Be quiet & watch her head. Give her a little time to figure it out. If she looks in the right direction, give her a "Good, there they are!). Then, test it again and see if that head snaps correctly in the direction of the sheep. Remember it's going to be easier for her to see sheep that are moving, so set her up for success when you're practicing the "look" game.

 

When you enter a field to train an outrun, or to go to the post at a trial, give your dog the benefit of your body language to signal where the sheep are held. Take a few extra seconds to get far enough behind the post that you can walk with your dog in a straigh line directly towards the sheep as you approach the post. In novice classes with short outruns, most likely your dog will easily see the sheep, but later, when the outruns are big and tricky, you will have created a pattern to help your dog spot sheep effectively. Do it right, even when you train in your own small field. Before you send her, go through the "see sheep" drill again. If she seems like she doesn't see them from the post, leave the post, and back up several yards and walk straight to the post again. Believe me, eventually having a good routine to set up at the post will pay off!

 

Finally, if you send her and she begins to cross or you see from her behaviour that she hasn't seen the sheep. Lie her down. You'll rarely get an effective re-direct on a confused young dog! By virtue of being stopped on her outrun, hopefully, she'll be looking around. Patience is golden here! Be quiet & WATCH HER HEAD! No point yelling "get backs" and flank commands yet. If she doesn't look in the correct direction, go back to the sheep spotting routine above and tell her to "look". When that head finally turns in the correct direction, send her on. You may have to do this more than once with a young dog. Don't get rattled or embarrassed! It happens to everyone. You're teaching something important here!

 

Hope it helps.

[Guest Margaret Wheeler]

It's all new to me. With Nell being my first dog it seems like I am able to incorporate only a percentage of the good information that kind folks like yourself have shared with me.

 

I used the "See the Sheep" routine today with both Nell and my young puppie Vinnie. I can already tell it's going to be a great help. Thanks!

 

When Nell hears "See the Sheep?", quick study that she is, I can tell that she already associates the phrase with locating them and gathering them. In our field there are all sorts of nooks and crannies so I took her out of sight of the sheep, then as I walked out to a place where she could see them I repeated "See the Sheep?", and then when she spotted them I said "Good, there they are."

 

How does that sound?

[Guest Lori]

That's perfect. You'll be surprised how much you can accomplish in a small field using a little ingenuity! Your goal is just to teach her to look, thoughtfully, whenever you ask her to spot sheep.

 

When you have the opportunity to work elsewhere, you can play around with having someone hold the sheep out of sight, and practice going through your whole "set up & see sheep" routine in a context where she can't see the sheep when she's sent, but will as she continues to outrun. Little exercises like this will build trust and experience and pay off some day on the trial field.

[Guest Margaret Wheeler]

I have set myself the goal of traveling to some new fields for lessons and/or sheep time. This is a challenge because I'm a real "homebody" when it comes to training and would probably never leave my dear trainer's pasture if I didn't know that my dogs need variety to increase their skills. Also, I still find trialing very stressful (even though it is also very fun), and so I think I'll use the resources that I might have spent on trials for traveling to different training spots.

 

 

One thing I'll be looking forward to is trying your "straight line to the sheep" suggestion in various new settings and at the trials I do make it to.

 

I'll keep you "posted" on my progress! Again, thanks so much!

 

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Margaret Wheeler ]</small>

[Guest Lori]

When I was coming up through the novice classes, an experienced handler encouraged me to come to more trials and really pay attention to how the successful Open handlers managed different situations. She said "If you really watch them closely, with an eye towards learning, it's almost like a free lesson." Good advice.

 

These days, it seems more and more trials have gone to formats which run novice classes on one day & Open on different days in order to accomodate big entries. I realize that it can be difficult to commit to an extra day at a trial, but it you can, it truly is a good learning opportunity.

[Guest MissTwist24]

Hi Lori and Margaret,

I hope you don't mind if I expand on your thread to ask a couple fo related questions.

 

First, if the outrun is such that the dog may well see the sheep once behind them but the handler can't see the dog, what technique(s) do you use to determine where the dog is? At a trial a couple of weeks ago dogs sent to the left disappeared for a time at the top of the outrun, say last quarter, and I found myself counting in my head how long it took my dog to cover a certain distance then extrapolated that to the time she was out of my sight so that I would have an idea of when she should be behind her sheep (important in this case because the dog really does need to be stopped or at least slowed at the top or she'll bring the sheep off at warp speed). Are there any other ways to judge where the dog is or is counting time in one's head the best way?

 

Second,if my dog is a naturally wide outrunner and does know to look for her sheep and will take a redirect, need I do anything special to try to prepare for our first go at a really long outrun (~600 yards) in which she will disappear from my sight and also will likely lose sight of her sheep for some part of the outrun? Send her and hope and pray?

 

Thanks!

 

Julie

[Guest Lori]

Hey Julie-

 

Losing sight of your dog for an extended period of time on a long outrun certainly can be anxiety producing! Sounds like you know your dog well and have a good plan. On a field like that, I would try to watch several runs before my own to try to help gauge how long other dogs are out of sight on the outrun. If you can watch other outruns from somewhere behind the post, you may get some clues as to where on the outrun other handlers are catching sight of their dogs, which may help you gauge whether your dog is running the same pattern or is wider or more tight and may need re-directed.

 

For other clues of when your dog is behind the sheep, watch the sheep's heads as they may take note of your dog approaching before they are lifted. Also, watch both the spotter and the set out dog. You may see changes in the body language of either one to signal your dog is getter nearer. A few years ago, I lost sight of my dog on a big outrun and had no idea where she was. Just then, from behind me, I heard someone announcing on a mic point out to spectators exactly where my dog was. (Prob. a good reason for announcers NOT to say that kind of stuff(!)...but I sure took advantage of it at the time!)

 

Also, if you know that your dog tends to lift hard and you usually manage that by stopping her at the top before she lifts, you may want to spend some practice on stopping or slowing her just *after* she lifts to make sure she'll be equally responsive to that in the event all clues fail and you don't have much heads up on her coming up behind the sheep. At least you'll be feel more prepared to bring the fetch under control.

 

With regard to your second question about your first really big trial outrun, hopefully, you will have had chances to practice similarly long outruns on other fields before the trial. Some funny things can show up when a dog finds itself much farther away from its handler than it is normally accustomed to working and best to get a preview on what those might be before the trial if possible! A young dog that has a decent stop, steady, and flanks at 200 yards may not be so responsive at 600 yards.

 

Even on a smaller scale, you can practice working the challenges you know will be part of the outrun at the trial. Does your dog still outrun well when she loses sight of the sheep? Does she steady well at the top of her fetch? Will she flank well off balance to correct a fetch line? If she's doing this kind of work reliably, you should be ready to tackle the big course! Good luck!!