Guest Margaret Wheeler Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Hi Carol, When working in the round pen with Nell, it has been said to me. "She's being sucked into the pressure." Usually this accompanies the advice that it is time to end the lesson for the day. Both times this has been said my brain has been sucked out by the pressure of keeping up with the action produced by sheep + keen young dog and so I haven't managed to do anything but nod mutely. What does it mean to you Carol? Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDavis Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Hi Margaret. I'm obviously not Carol, but I had a question for you on this. I was curious as to what it is that your trainer is trying to accomplish by working you in the round pen. And, what is it that happens when Nell is "sucked into the pressure" -- she starts diving in and chasing, or what? Thanks. <small>[ July 18, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Davis ]</small> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Margaret Wheeler Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Hey Glen! Did you know that my Nell hails from Wisconsin too? [edit]Doh!for some reason I saw WI not WA. Im embarrassed, but Nell's brother Dan lives in Washington so there ya go![/edit] Well the embarassing thing about this is that I'm not quite sure what she's doing when they say it and so when I practice on my own I don't know for sure what I'm looking for. Right now, I am working on getting her to walk behind the sheep instead of always trying to head them. I usually get her to go around the sheep when I say "get" or "out." Then I try to keep her behind them while I walk straight for a bit. Early in my 15 minute practice she starts out pretty wild, with at least one full circle before she settles. Then into about the second five minutes she will lay down, walk up etc. and then walk behind them without going around or even flanking them too much. Towards the end of practice she might be sneaking up closer and closer. The sheep don't seem to be moving any faster, so I'm wondering if this might be what my advisors were talking about. The first person who made this comment was Kathy Knox at the clinic I attended this week, then an open handler I respect greatly and who lets me practice on her sheep told me too. Unfortunately both times I forgot to ask what they were seeing when they said it, and I thought I'd ask Carol because it might be a good thing for all little hats to know. <small>[ July 20, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Margaret Wheeler ]</small> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Campion Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I think we need to have a "dictionary" before I can answer these questions. Pressure is a word used to describe a lot of different dynamics in the dog/sheep/handler equasion. There is the "pressure" the handler/trainer puts on its dog to do certain things, there is the "pressure" the dog puts on the sheep in its desire to control them and there is he "pressure" the sheep puts on the dog by wantng to be somewhere in relation to the field or other sheep and there is the "pressure" of a location itself. The "pressure" of the location and of the sheep trying to be somewhere is the "pressure" referred to in this post. The pressure in this instance is the "draw". The sheep are trying to get somewhere. They are being "drawn in" by something. Picture yourself very hungry and passing a great restaurant with wonderful smells wafting out the door. You are wanting to stop to get some food and your companion does not want to. To get his way, your companion has to block that desire on your part to be in that restaurant. If words don't work, then he must get in front of you to stop you from entering. Same with the sheep and dogs. In our case, we have more complex dynamics taking place in that these dogs are generally bred to "head" sheep. That is—they want to go to the head of the sheep to control them. So in a young dog, there is a lot more raw instint demanding attention than in a trained dog. It is still present in a trained dog, but part of training is to help them mold those desires to enable us to "use" them to control stock on our terms. So the young dog is drawn into the desire of the sheep to be somewhere—it is drawn into their heads. If you have a young dog in a situation where sheep are facing it and you ask that dog to go around them, it won't. It will often "get sucked into the pressure" and go straigt at them or dive straight into them in an effort to stay at their heads. That is what that phrase generally means. People who use a round pen for training usually do to keep the sheep from getting way. You don't have to waste time trying to keep the sheep from running away from an active young exuberant dog that they may be nervous about!! Does this help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Margaret Wheeler Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Thanks a lot, Carol! Yes it helps a lot. I'm guessing that my advisors were seeing evidence that Nell's tolerance for commands was diminishing. I think, they could see that my window for ending on a positive note was disappearing fast and that soon she would dive at the sheep whereas before she had been staying out pretty well. Now, I just need to learn to identify those clues myself. Well, I'll start on that tomorrow. Thanks again, Margaret <small>[ July 21, 2003, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Margaret Wheeler ]</small> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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