OT - warning, need to vent!

[Jordi44]

AAAHHHGGGG! My daughter is going to be in the third grade this year, so they sent home a practice test for them to do in Aug. before going back to school to review for the ISTEP tests. Great. The problem - they didn't teach them how to do half the stuff they're now expected to do for the test. We have one of those hip schools where it doesn't matter what you do - just as long as you feel good about it - all those who have experienced this, please feel free to scream here with me. Tell a first and second grader that they don't have to do it - and gee, surprise, surprise, they don't do it. Take the attitude that "they'll learn to do it when they're ready" and gee, they don't ever learn because no one ever showed them how. I swear, this is what we've been told. They are just handed stuff and told to do it if they want; if they don't or can't, it's the parents' fault. We were told this, more or less, too. Add to this a daughter with an attitude - even at 8 - who doesn't believe I know anything - or at least can't teach it to her - and I'm beating my head against the wall. I've tried bribery, threats (which definitely don't work - she's a true redhead), and everything I can think of. We ordered some stuff to do on the computer - and she enjoyed them - the one or two times I could get her to do it. She's very resistant to anything I try to get her to do. ANY SUGGESTIONS?! I'm at my wits end. Private school isn't an option - blowing up the farce they call a school has come to mind. I've often said I'd like to go back in history and find the person who came up with the idea of grooming sheep for show - and sack that idea. That's not half as much as what I'd like to do to the idiot that came up with this "wonderful" teaching method. AAAAAAHHHHHGGGG! Thanks for letting me vent.

[nancy]

Yes, our oldest hit puberty at 18 months, so I know what you mean. Luckily, she'll be 40 in January.

 

I hate the newer so-called methods in teaching. It's test oriented and seems to put all the onus on the parents. Gee, maybe that's why so many mothers home-school.

 

I am sick up to here (as high as I can reach over my head!) with "self-esteem". When it first came up, I informed my kids that what they needed was self-respect. And that they had to earn that - even from themselves. About all you can do is to tell her that, no matter what the teacher says, that it is her own decision what she does and her own fault if she fails. Absolutely refuse to be suckered into guilt for that over which you are not even allowed control.

 

I also told my kids what managers would expect if they ever managed to get jobs. You know, the "do it it you want and forget it if you don't - and blame your parents afterwards" method cuts no ice in the corporate world.

 

Hmm, can you arrange to take the kid to work (or have your spouse do so) as, to her knowledge, a sort of treat. Then let her meet with the manager, prearranged, and discuss school. Sort of set it up so the manager can be totally shocked at the concept and let the kid know that this is not how real life works?

 

This said, I do remember telling my kids that, had I to do it over, I'd have gotten guppies. And that, by this point, I'd have flushed them. All 3 remember that evening.

[Lunar]

Originally posted by nancy:

This said, I do remember telling my kids that, had I to do it over, I'd have gotten guppies. And that, by this point, I'd have flushed them. All 3 remember that evening.

ROFLMAO!!

 

I just got out of school myself - college, but still. I totally understand. I'm one of those (rare?) kids who got great grades. I didn't really like to study, but never really needed to. There were two things that annoyed the snot out of me: one, when teachers would tell me how to learn. "If you don't spend 3 hours a day on this material, you're never going to pass." I didn't study, and I did pass, so they learned not to bug me about it. And two, when they would pass kids who did NOT deserve to. I hated that - HATED it. No one flunked a grade in elementary school, but there were obviously kids who DID NOT deserve to move ahead. It's the whole, "You can't do that to them, it'll hurt their feelings," etc etc thing. I really REALLY think they're doing the kids a huge disservice by not making sure they learn the material, and by passing them when they don't meet the grade. It's only going to hurt them later. They also don't let kids skip a grade, for the same reasons, "They'll be upset not to be with their own age group" - yet they never asked if we would be? So I was stuck in classes with kids who had no clue and had to be baby-stepped through everything and I got SO bored and so frustrated with the whole damn thing I nearly walked out on it all.

 

Like in your case - expecting them to pass tests when they aren't adequately prepared. That is NOT the kid's fault. And I would be hopping mad as well.

 

Other ideas.... well... I don't know the area. I'm from Canada... and where my parents live there are several different schools - they aren't private, they're classified as "fundamental" schools, supposedly going back to more classical methods of teaching. But that's probably regional? My husband, when he was a child, was put into private catholic school - not because of the religion, but because his mother wanted him to get a good education, which he was not recieving at the run-down, poor-neighborhood public school he was at. But that took money, unfortunately - I really don't know how she managed that, they didn't have much.

 

If you're really ambitious you could try to get things changed - get involved with the parent group, talk to the teachers, talk to the principal, etc - let people know the parents aren't happy and try to get it fixed. But who knows if that would actually get anywhere.

[Jack & Co.]

Bless your heart! Is this a school you have selected or is it the one you must attend because of your districting? If you have a choice, hit the road! If you're stuck, I would meet with the assistant principal in charge of curriculum or head for the district superintendent's office. You are the customer and they are not providing you with a quality product.

 

I have teenage sons who are the product of public school and they have received an excellent education so far. Some teachers have been better than others. When we have had lousy teachers, I have hired tutors. I hired Son #2's third grade teacher to prepare him for the 4th grade state writing test since his 4th grade teacher wasn't teaching writing. I hired Son #1's 5th grade teacher to prepare Son #2 for the End-of-Grade exam because he had a substitute teacher who couldn't understand most of the 5th grade math. Mom and Dad could certainly have done the tutoring ourselves, but it helped keep the family peace when an outsider did the teaching.

 

I don't know much about girls, but you are the parent and you have to be the boss. No kid in my house is going to run the show and I don't put up with attitude or sass. Forget the bribery and threats, set some serious rules with serious consequences, and FOLLOW THROUGH. Take her TV, computer, friend privileges if she is going to be rude and uncooperative. Tell her that you have already been a third grader so you know LOTS more than she does. School must ALWAYS come first and fun after-school activities are a privilege to be earned, not her God-given right. If you're lucky, she'll tell you that you're the meanest mother in the whole world and she doesn't like you to which you'll reply, "Good, I must be doing my job right."

 

Good luck! It has taken a lot of work, but my boys are pretty good company and I enjoy them.

 

Edited to add: I'm with Nancy on self-esteem! Don't fall into that psycho-babble trap; there's nothing wrong with some guilt and self-disgust!

[MaggieDog]

The difference between school districts can be great - is there another district w/ a school close enough to switch to? or another elem. school in the current district?

 

When I switched schools from Ohio to Indiana in 6th grade the difference was amazing, and not in a good way. Math is/was a full year ahead in OH compared to IN. I got put in the 'normal' math class and was so bored with the stupid worksheets that were all we did that I was getting Cs and Ds, once I was switched to the advanced class my grades jumped to As. Is it possible that your daughter is just bored w/ the material and needs more of a challenge?

 

And Lunar, I agree with the sentiment about peers that were performing below where they should be due to undeserved passing and lax teaching - drove me nuts in HS especially, luckily I could take AP classes and such to get into a more equal situation.

 

AP history was a dissapointment for me though - we didn't really get past the 1920s!!!!! All the interesting stuff is after the 20s! My mom ended up talking w/ some teacher friends and semi tutoring me herself; we ended up watching some movies and such and discussing the events they covered along w/ some field trips to historical places. I enjoyed the one on one time and special focus on the more interesting events.

 

My mom was always involved in my school and that helped a lot I think; she really went to bat on some curriculum issues over the years.

[Carson Crazies]

We have one of those hip schools where it doesn't matter what you do - just as long as you feel good about it - all those who have experienced this, please feel free to scream here with me.

I'm screaming with you. I don't have children yet, but I'm watching what this style of teaching and this mindset has done for my now 18 year old sister. It teaches kids that (basically) if they don't like it, or don't want to do it, they don't have to. It teaches them its OK to quit. It teaches them that if it doesn't feel good, don't do it.

 

My sister has now walked off of two jobs. I'm concerned. I'm the bad one because I laid it down - but I'm OK with that... someone has to be real about it. I worry that this mindset and style of teaching is NOT teaching our children responsibility.

 

I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. Private schools are very expensive, public schools can be either good, bad, or anything in between. Home schooling is a great option, but not so great if your child is convinced you can't know anything.

 

Maybe the powers that be should be lined up and whacked with a ruler. Worked for me in Kindergarten.

 

Just wanted to let you know we're behind you.

[heartdog]

I agree 100 % . The public school here teaches them to pass standardized tests. We have chosen to homeschool and are having a blast and my son is doing great. We use a full curriculum called Oak Meadow. We chose full enrollment with them and have teacher support. We belong to a great homeschool group that does fun trips and educational event and have plenty of socialization through the homeschool group in our area. I got so tired of making noise to the school district :mad: and I don't want my son to have to wait for positive changes to be made so we decided to homeschool. Very scarey at first but it works and fits with our lifestyle. I work at home-I am a dog artist.

As part of the curriculum the children are expected to start their own business. My son has hens and started an egg business and is doing very well. He cares for his birds, keeps his books, does record keeping, etc. He makes a nice little income from it. He raised capital for start up himself by doing odd jobs. Now to me that is part of a good education- developing entrepreneurial skills. When I graduated high school I didn't even know how to write a check! Oh ,and he is almost 8 years old!

 

Deborah

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HeartDog Studio

Art of the Dog~ For the Love of the Dog

[DebC]

I am not screaming as loud as I used to. The new school district we moved into is MUCH improved over the old one. I'm sorry, but all that 'don't damage their self esteem, and everyone's a winner' is starting to get old....losing now and then is NOT a bad thing - builds character!!!

You haven't lived until you sit in the guidance counselors' office and hear "well, the world needs good ditch diggers, too..." :mad: BTW,son #1 is doing OK in college now. And I give a great big raspberry to that guidance counselor

[skd]

Hi there,

 

First, let me say right off the bat, that I was a public school teacher for a number of year, and then became a reluctant home schooler who then, over time,became a soapbox radical about it. I do have the utmost respect and sympathy for most public school teachers. My respect for the institution wavers, at best.

 

Not only is your daughter's acadamic progress at risk, but her approach to life is being molded by experiences and attitudes she is exposed to at school. I don't usually give unsolicited advice, but if she were mine, I'd remove her from the public school system.

 

I was a public school teacher for years, and was alarmed that parents did not have a clue what was happening to their children in school...or did not want to know. Kids are being sent off to a war zone every day by their parents. I could share endless stories of failing, belligerent, or clinically depressed children who've been removed from public schools and very shortly become happy well adjusted kids who've excelled academically and socially. Parents often notice a de-escalation of tension in their child within 2-4 days of removal from school.

 

Some home schooling parents believe that the general public has been brainwashed into believing that children must be raised under the influence of many peers in an institutional setting. Sounds radical, but: Do you trust the government to mold the values and intellect of your child for 7-8 hours or more per day? How many eight year olds would you trust to raise your daughter properly? That is exactly what is happening.

 

She needs to be removed from the environment that nurtures her negative behaviors and ensures lack of academic progress. Could keeping her home be any worse?

 

Sheryl

[D'Elle]

I am sick up to here (as high as I can reach over my head!) with "self-esteem". When it first came up, I informed my kids that what they needed was self-respect. And that they had to earn that - even from themselves

HEAR, HEAR.