Two Questions...

[bailey44]

Hi folks,

My 6 month Bc is coming along well, but a couple of issues have come up. One, when she is off leash in the park, it used to be that I would say "O.K" when the session was over and then call her to me and she would come. But now when she knows we're done, she doesn't want to come to me. So I've resorted to calling her close to me like we're still playing, putting her in a down stay and approaching her to grab her collar so I can leash her. This feels like cheating to me, but she has scared me a few times-- running off after the session. I feel like I'm tricking her and maybe not doing the right thing. Also, we have always asked her to "give' her toys, and she does this well, dropping it on the floor. However, she will NOT give toys up from her mouth if we have a hold on it--unless we use the "mean voice." I think she should be more polite!! Maybe I'm overthinking some of this, but Polly is our first border and I want to try to do this right. Is this just teenage stuff? Thanks in advance for your help, I SO rely on this board for advice! Charlene

[Keegan's Mom]

Charlene,

 

I would recommend using a long line while playing. This way when your session is done and you say "O.K." you can make her come to you and leash her to leave. This would reinforce the behavior that you started and you would like to continue.

 

As for the command "give" I have several recommendations as both our dogs do it differently.

 

For Tess, I can tell her "drop it" and she drops it with enthusiam. If I have my hand on something I want her to let go of...I tell her "Off". We do the same thing with Keegan although he does not have a good "drop it" command. However, he has a perfect "off" command so I tend to use that for him when I actually mean "drop it"...but only with him.

 

I taught off by clicker training. I would put a piece of food in front of their face and naturally they would try to get at the piece of food. If they backed away from the food even a little bit and just for a little bit (your timing has to be very good) I would click and they would get the treat. After they start to get the idea, I put the command "off" with it. You don't have to use "off" if you use that to mean something else...but that is just the word we use because they are allowed on the furniture so we don't use "off" to mean get off the furniture...we use "off" to mean "let go".

 

So after a while we just transferred this behavior to toys.

 

Hope this helps and I have explained myself clearly but feel free to ask questions.

[Beth G]

Sounds like the rebellion age. Mine are doing that too...lol. They are 7.5 mos old. I think it is related to the doggy "teenage years" phase they go through at this age. They just probably need some brush ups on obedience. Lord knows mine do.

[bailey44]

Thanks for your help. I knew I needed to do something different--one day she ran off after a session and I thought I would NEVER find her, but she had actually just dashed into a neighbors garage and was lying on the floor licking their old hound's face! (He seemed most pleased!! He probably thought he was dreaming!) But that was so dangerous--that's when I started "cheating" with her. She is not food driven, so trying the tempting with food for her to give up a toy has not worked. Even if it's a new treat, she soon tires of it and starts her snarky stuff again. I'll have to think more about that one. It would help more if she wasn't smarter than me. lol Charlene

[Jabawaki]

Ok, here?s my 2 cents as unpopular as it will be.

 

Simple. Don?t let your dog off the lease!!

 

I am a proponent that dogs should always be on a leash in public. Why? It?s a danger to them, others, and other dogs if they are loose.

 

Dogs can be unpredictable.

 

I was walking my dog on a leash, with my wife and 8 month old. Yeah, someone with a loose dog and guess what. He ran away from the owner and attacked my dog. 1 foot away from my 8 month old all hell broke out.. I grabbed this stick and fended off the other dog that was easily 70lbs. I can only think about what would have happened if the stroller was knocked over.

 

The owner comes running up to me and beechin? at me. Yeah, it?s my fault because I was protecting my baby.

 

This is the kind of irresponsibility that drives me crazy.

 

Where I live, most trails and open spaces don?t allow dogs because they upset the wildlife.

 

Some people don?t like dogs. And it?s their right to do so. It?s annoying when you are minding your own biz in a public place and dog invades your space, or worse trys to jump on you or touch you.

 

If they run off as you described ? there are cars, snakes whatever.

 

You can avoid most of the issues by simply keeping your dog on a lease when not in your home or yard. If you don?t have yard, then you need to find a secured area to train. Not a park where other people have the rights to come and go ? and parks attracts kids (see story above).

 

I diligently clean up after my dog, and keep him on a leash, out of respect and protection for others.

 

My opinion is that it?s irresponsible and annoying to have a loose dog. We live in a society where everybody thinks they have the right to do whatever they please regardless of the impact to others.

 

Sorry, if I offended anyone. I'll get off the soap box.

[bailey44]

Jabawoki,

I'm so glad that you and your family are o.k. The park where I bring Polly is a private one in our neighborhood. Everyone knows her and we all get along very well. This has been a wonderful situation for socializing the puppy--especially since we don't have small children or other pets. The children love her, and they take turns playing fetch with her. When we are at a public park, I would NEVER take Polly off leash, for her safety as well as others. I'm so glad that you clean up after your dog--I think most of us do that, and I also think that we try to assess our dogs in regard as to where they are in their training, and then try to change OUR behavior to make it all work. That's where I'm at right now. Charlene

[Bordercentrics]

I basically agree with Jabawaki. I walk my dogs on leash in a different park every day. I use a flexi to give them more freedom. We do have leash laws in the city and county; there are no off-leash dog parks here.

 

I have seen people with well behaved, well controlled dogs off lead and I don't have a real problem because they don't bother my dogs. I have also seen many wild, out of control dogs that acted agressively or were just inappropriate jerks that I had to yell at so they didn't come near my dogs. I also carry pepper spray in case we meet an agressive dog that's off the leash.

 

Also, I must admit that my Border Collies are not well enough trained to be off leash in parks. They are both into chasing - birds, squirrels, etc. and I don't trust they would come if they were after a squirrel that ran across a busy street. I'm just not willing to take the chance. My elderly Bouvier, OTOH, could be off leash anywhere and everywhere, but he doesn't care if he is on or off lead - he just wants to sniff.

[bailey44]

At this point, Polly doesn't seem to be a chaser. She is sweet and passive with other dogs. We just got back from the neighborhood park that I was talking about earlier. There's a pond there and about 12 geese were hanging out around it. These geese were 20 feet away from her and they might as well have been rocks. BUT that's because she was playing with the ball and was so focused. As I said before, my problem is that when she knows the game is over, I have trouble getting her to come to me. Tonight she came right to me. Go figure. I think I'm going to use Rachel's idea and put her on a long lead until we firm up the recall--she's just not reliable right now. Thanks everyone. Charlene

[MrSnappy]

Should we not separate the two issues here?

 

Dogs off leash being someone's pet peeve versus a training issue (that someone's pet peeve is not addressing)?

 

You've gotten some good advice for recall. In our house, recall is not optional and all dogs learn it in a matter of days. One thing I do is call my dogs to me frequently so that not every recall means the game is over. For some dogs, releasing them is reward for recall. A long line for now while you are reinforcing it is a good idea.

 

RDM

[Lunar]

(Agrees with RDM)

 

Charlene - When do you call her to you? Is it only when you are leaving? In that case I think the problem is pretty simple - the dog's learning that when you call her, it means time to leave (not a happy thing). I conciously call my dog to me all the time while we're outside - to play, to get a cookie, to get a toy. While we're in training I don't call her to me for unhappy things, like getting into the truck (which she hates). Just a thought.

 

And yes, agree with long line while she is rebelling and still learning.

[urge to herd]

RDM and Natalie have got the right idea. You can start by calling her to you in your house, giving her a neck scritch or ruffle, and sending her off again. Then, take it into your yard. Then take it out into the wonderful, wild, wide and exciting world - that's what it seems like to a puppy, anyway.

 

Use food treats intermittently. Keep doing the call/fun thing/release in the house until she's trotting to you happily 90% of the time, then move to the yard and work towards the same 90%. Do keep her on a long line whenever you're not in a fenced in place with her, public or not.

 

Adolescence can be lived through!

 

Good luck, let us know how you get along.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[Catu]

I agree with Lunar, but would like to add to do not tire your dg calling it every five minutes. Call it from time to time, but not with enough frequency to him to think "Oh, no, she is calling me agaaaaain... would she let me play?" Make it always a super happy moment.

[bailey44]

I call Polly to me all day--for meds, chew bones, to get her leash on--whatever, and she always comes readily and happily. I have sessions inside where we just have her come and she is rewarded with play. When I have a play session with Polly inside, when it is over I say, "O.K" or "That'll do," and she knows that no matter what, that toy is being put away. We HAVE to do that because we learned very early with her that if we didn't control her play time, she would grab a toy and pester us. Also, if we ignored her, it seemed that her anxiety level would go up as she worried about when "someone's gonna come along and pick up this dang toy and play with me!" Or she would grab a toy and start spinning around in circles with it which seemed, well, unhealthy...By being consistent with this, it made her "off switch" come along nicely and I was able to actually get chores and stuff done. When this was transferred outside, and as she has matured, she has realized that yeah, you say the play is over but I don't have to always listen to that if I'm outside. Lunar, you're right, I don't have to call her to me and make it a big deal that we are stopping play when we are outside, I can keep it more low-key. You made me remember something too when you mentioned your truck-she injured her paw and after the bandage came off, the vet said she couldn't walk on cement or asphalt for a couple of weeks, so I would drive to the neighborhood park instead of walking. Well, she hates riding in my jeep and I think the reason she started "stalling" after a play session is because she had to ride home in that dumb ole jeep. I've had dogs all my life but this one is so unique and special! Keeps me hoppin! You are all so helpful, thank you so much.

[Melody]

Scampi is 6 months now and we have taken him to the woods off the lead almost every day, we have taught him when play is over and we want his lead on to say "thats it" and "collar" and he knows its time for the lead to be on or off!

 

My puppy class trainer advised that its unfair to walk your dog on a leash at this age as it would be pointless if they cant have a run about.

 

We find the quiet times to go in the woods (non escapable) or the beach and equipped with a ball he isnt focused on anything except the ball.

 

if there are people around I would leash him anyway as dogs can be very unpredictable especially at this age.