stage 3 congestive heart failure

[cody's mommy]

My dear firend's beagle/cocker spaniel was recently diganosed with stage 3 congestive heart failure. She is a mess as she has had Kelsey for 9 yrs now and is already being treated for seizures. Does anyone know anything further that I can help her with this-they prescribed Lasik for her for fluids, but nothing more that I know of...the whole stage 3 is VERY scarey, to say the least, and I want to be able to help her along with this...she has searched the internet and found nothing but heartache and gave up. She will do the right thing by her furry friend, no matter how hard, and all we are finding is a few months with this diagnosis. Will she be in pain if she keeps holding on for treatment? Should she do what she dreads, and spare Kelsey any pain? I need some advice to help her through this horrible, heart wrenching time....thanks so much Kathy

[nancy]

I know nothing about that in cats. Although I'll ask my daughter when we make our Easter call - on e of her cats had heart trouble, but I don't know what.

 

My father had quite serious congestive heart failure. He still drove himself and my mother to my daughter's wedding (from Massachusetts to North Carolina). And made another trip to my aunt's in Virginia. He was having to have fluid removed and get a transfusion about every two weeks. (My parents insisted that the doctor had no idea why either was happening, although my brother took them to an appointment, and sat in, where the doctor explained how this was part of congestive heart failure.) One day, he and my mother went to his regular doctor's appointment, then to one of their favorite restaurants about 20 miles away (does "wet and warm describe food to you?) As they headed home and got to where it was divided highway - four lanes - he had a massive heart attack and died.

 

The good part is that my mother (who never drove, ever) got the car from crossing the median to stopped on the right shoulder, then called 911.

 

Anyhow, sure seems like there can be quite good quality of life with serious congestive heart failure. Don't give up too soon.

[cody's mommy]

I know nothing about that in cats. Although I'll ask my daughter when we make our Easter call - on e of her cats had heart trouble, but I don't know what.

 

My father had quite serious congestive heart failure. He still drove himself and my mother to my daughter's wedding (from Massachusetts to North Carolina). And made another trip to my aunt's in Virginia. He was having to have fluid removed and get a transfusion about every two weeks. (My parents insisted that the doctor had no idea why either was happening, although my brother took them to an appointment, and sat in, where the doctor explained how this was part of congestive heart failure.) One day, he and my mother went to his regular doctor's appointment, then to one of their favorite restaurants about 20 miles away (does "wet and warm describe food to you?) As they headed home and got to where it was divided highway - four lanes - he had a massive heart attack and died.

 

The good part is that my mother (who never drove, ever) got the car from crossing the median to stopped on the right shoulder, then called 911.

 

Anyhow, sure seems like there can be quite good quality of life with serious congestive heart failure. Don't give up too soon.

Thanks so much, she is so upset with woryr over her little girl...she was sure there for me when I lost my Zeus, so I owe her big as she is so distraught right now in doing the "right" thing....please keep her and Kelsey in your prayers for me....

[sea4th]

OK. Admittedly this is a long shot. It's just sharing a personal experience. A few years ago, I worked for a dog groomer. This was after I had switched my Pete to a premade raw food and noticed a dramatic improvement, so i was really on the bandwagon, beating the raw diet drum, so to speak.

 

One morning, we were told by the owner that a long time customer was coming in with her 10 yr. old male cockapoo, who, the previous day was diagnosed by the vet with congestive heart failure, and was told to "just make him comfortable". The owner was in tears. We were told to treat the dog with kid gloves because of his heart condition.

 

It was my job to check out the dogs and collect the money as people came in to pick up their pooches. When the owner of the cockapoo came to pick him up, I cornered her in the lobby and told her of my own experience and basically told her "He has to eat something. What've you got to lose?", and I gave her the info.

 

A couple of months later she came in---to thank me. She had switched to this food, this premade raw. A couple of weeks later, this dog, who could barely make it across the kitchen floor, bounced over to his bowl at mealtime. She and her husband could not believe their eyes. She took him back after about a month or two to the vet who re-examined the dog and said "I don't know what happened or what you're doing, but keep doing it". Instead of a "just make him comfortable" advice, he said that the dog should live another couple of years, and with less meds than he was on before the diet switch.

 

Each individual is different. This was done in a last ditch effort, as I did for my Pete with really great results - and again, the dog has to eat something. I would say it's worth a try. The food is pricey, so it's got to be determined if the cost of feeding this diet is worth it in the end. Only the dog's owner can answer that. It certainly was for me. And it certainly was for the lady with the cockapoo.

 

Here is a link to that dog's story on the Morigins website:

 

http://www.morigins.com/Testimonials.html

 

And good luck to your friend and her dog.

[cody's mommy]

Thanks so much Vicki, I am going into that site right now and forwarding it to her in an email so she can check it out....I knew I could get good answers and advice in here, even if she isn't a border collie!!!! I'll keep you posted on her progress!!!!

[sharkie]

i'm sorry but i can't find anything in dogs but hope this helps. In people, NYHA stage 4 is as high as you can go and mostly rated on exercise tolerance. a stage 3 is when your comfortable at rest but are exacerbated at the slightest physical stimulation. Lasix or furosemide is a diuretic and one of the first types of drugs that you use in CHF (before you go down the line and start using the other antihypertensives). Watching diet and limit salt intake can significantly slow down the progression of CHF and is one of the very first things thats recommended

[cody's mommy]

Thanks Sharkie,

I sent my friend the info from Vicki, and hopefully she can find out about the food and se eif it is an option for her and her baby. As I read through your post, with the info on the stages of CHF, I am wondering if my friend's dog actually classifies a stage 3, though, she isn't out of breath when exercising, she still has the desire to run outside, etc....she is a bit overweight, and all, but otherwise a pretty active dog? But I guess who am I to question a veterinarian...I told her a second opinion may be in order when she first told me all of this anyhow, but it is her call on what she decides as the plan of care....I just hope the best for her....this is her heart dog, the only one she has ever owned, in her life, and she is such a good owner, I feel her pain....

[sharkie]

this staging system is not absolute (nor the most representative one) as there are other factors to classify CHF. the key to CHF is sodium restriction

[gail]

Kathy,

 

You don't say whether your friend has seen her regular vet or a cardiologist for this diagnosis and treatment plan. Have her see a cardiologist asap. There are many drugs available to dogs with heart problems. Also, stage 3 congestive heart failure is her condition. What is causing it? Is it a leaking valve, a congental defect, thyroid problems? There are many possible causes. A cardiologist will do an ultrasound and a EKG, at a minimum, and be able to tell your friend what is really going on, what the prognosis is, and what treatment options are available.

 

I have seen cardiologists both at Penn and at Cornell. They have both been very good. Dogs can live for many good years with heart disease.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions, Gail

[cody's mommy]

Hi Gail,

Yes this was the vet who has seen Kelsey since she was a pup that diagnosed her...she has been treating for seizures for quite some time, but this was a shock to my friend. I found out since posting the first time she is on Lasix and a heart pill, goes for an ultrasound next week, and my friend has noticed she isn't near as thick through her chest area and her breathing isn't labored at all and she has actually been even more active without the panting and coughing since her meds are in her system. She is quite hopeful that the vet mis diagnosed her as having stage 3 CHF, and maybe she will come around once the meds are going through her system. She also checked into ordering some of the raw food that Vicki advised and is waiting a trial delivery to try that on her...so cross your fingers and keep her in your prayers, everyone!!! Thanks for all the great advice-I keep passing it on to my friend and she is touched at the nice people I have met in here.....thanks all!!!

[Kitch]

I second everything Gail said. I haven't had this experience with dogs, but I just went through it with my cat. He was on furosemide, enalapril and another one that began with "A" that I can't think of right now. (And my spelling of the medications is probably wrong). He was also required to take a potassium pill twice a day to help conteract the effects of the diuretic as well as half an aspirin twice a week. It sounds like a lot, but it took about 1 minute every morning. Once he got stabilized with the medication, he felt much better and would even play. Unfortunately he ended up having a heart attack within three months of diagnosis, though that could have happened at any time. I am very grateful for those extra 3 months I had with him.

 

So - definitely see a cardiologist, get the ultrasound/EKG done and have an in-depth thyroid test done.

 

 

I hope things work out well for your friend.

 

Kerry