New and learning...

[Lenny]

I just wanted to say hi. I’ve been lurking around for a bit learning all I can. I’m getting involved with Search and Rescue and should be looking for a dog in about 8-12 months. I have a German Shepherd but she’s too old to start for SAR. I’ve been around a few BC’s and have seen them work and they seem to be relentless which is what I’m looking for in a SAR dog. In the meantime I’m just finding out as much as I can. Anyone on here involved in SAR with their BC?

[Catu]

For my own experience and of what I've seen in Europe BC's are great in S&R, specially by their agility abilities, size and work ethic. There are more and more every day in the world, but BC's are not for every handler and not all BC's are good at S&R. As a breed, many of them tend to be shy and sensitive, if you are looking just for wilderness search, it can be no problem, but if you are looking for disaster search be careful, you have to look for a puppy which both parents are not noise sensitive. This is the reason for why I ended retiring mine and other people I know have had the same problem. But don't be misguided by my words, a dog with enough drive, even when sensitive in a "familiar" environment, can become a lion when working, but certainly, if you are used to GSD, you would discover that the way to train them is entirely different.

 

Here you have a couple of photos of Chemukh, from when she used to be a SAR dog.

 

 

[Maralynn]

Hi Lenny!

 

I'm starting SAR training this spring with my 2 y/o BC. We are working on some basic foundation (obedience and agility) training right now, and he's doing well. When we get that down, we'll start out with wilderness air scent training, see how he does, and go from there. The group I'm training with has wilderness, disaster, trailing and cadaver dogs.

 

BCs with confidence and drive can excel at SAR. I got my dog with herding in mind (I raise sheep), and then decided I'd like to pursue SAR with him. From a SAR perspective, he's not quite as confident as I'd like. But he has a great temperment, and warms up to new situations fairly quickly. He does get pretty hyped up about getting his ball and learns quickly. So I'm hoping he'll do well.

 

Every so often a BC suitable for SAR comes through a rescue group, so that would be an avenue to check out if you decide on a BC. Usually a BC who was supposed to be a pet, and then proved to be waaay to much dog for a pet home. They're ususally and older pup or young adult by then, and you have a pretty good picture of what their temperment and drive is like.

[Lenny]

Thanks for the input.

When the time comes, I'm going to look at the rescue and see about a candidate. If not I'll check out a pup. I'm also thinking about Aussies. I'll have someone from my SAR team help evaluate any dog before I make a decision as well.

I love the pics. Your terrain looks a little more severe than around here. Still looks fun.

[Catu]

I love the pics. Your terrain looks a little more severe than around here. Still looks fun.

 

It doesn't use to be so severe there either, but that is how the emergency arised and people got lost and died. Mother Nature commands.

[INU]

I've evaluated quite a few dogs as well as helped picking puppies - GSD, retrievers and BCs for SAR work. Not so much with retrievers but with GSD and BCs, it is very unpredictable. You do the 'temperment & drive test' when they are puppies, they might score 10 but it doesn't guarantee anything. You pay a couple of thousands dollars to a reputable breeder and get a nice pup, that doesn't also guarantee anything in SAR. Some BCs from great herding lines can have the best drive, but they are often sound sensitive. That can be improved but some dogs just don't make it. Like Catu said, if you are only doing wilderness, then it wouldn't affect the work as much as it would if you are doing disaster. That's something to consider. For my next SAR dog, I am planning on getting a 6 months - 1 year rescue BC. When I am ready, I will let all the rescue people know so that they can keep an eye for a good candidate. It would probably take months or years to find a dog that's suitable but I would have a better idea what kind of dog I am getting.

 

If you are not set on the breed and want to do disaster, I recommend looking into getting a lab too. Not the laid back American labs but the sharp high driven field lab.

[BCBERRI]

I have to second what Catu and Inu have said. I have both a BC and an Aussie in SAR. My BC is training in cadaver and the Aussie is an Area Search (live find) dog. Both work so differently from each other. It's like night and day. We have a good variety of breeds on our team and I find the breed of dog is sometimes not as important as the dog itself. We have one handler who has a pup and he is great. He was a rescue from the pound. We also have several labs on the team. And while I was never a big fan of one just as a pet for the house, I would now consider one for work. Learning as much as you can about yourself as a handler helps too. I find that my Aussie and I fit like a glove because he tends to bounce right back after a correction where my BC tends to be sensitive and I need to be softer in my tone to him. My next dog (my BC is almost 7 and will retire in a few years) will most likely be a rescued young dog. I agree with what Inu said about better knowing the pup/dogs personality.

[Lenny]

Thanks for the help. That's one thing that really worries me about trying to pick a dog for SAR, you are not guaranteed to get one that cuts it. I will be getting help from someone who knows more than I do about evaluating a dog than I do. I'm still looking for a team. I've been interested and researching for about 3 years now and finally got married about 4 months ago. So now that I'm settled in, so to speak, I'm gonna train with a few teams and see how it works out. I'm not going to get a dog till I get my feet wet and see when they think would be good timing to look into a dog. I really want to go the rescue rout for the reasons you guys/girls listed and there are too many good working dogs out there who were giving up on by owners who had no idea why their pet that they walk once a week is all crazy and hyper.

The more I've been reading them more I'm interested in cadaver. I don't think I want to do disaster. I'm in the North Texas area and if I do live find I guess it would be urban/wilderness.

Thanks again.

[SoloRiver]

Hi Lenny,

 

I have no experience with SAR but I will reiterate that noise phobia is fairly common in Border Collies (which is why my project is doing a study on noise phobia in Border Collies!). It's not what I would call a killer epidemic but it is a concern for someone looking for an SAR dog. I'd recommend looking at adult dogs because often noise phobia does not manifest until the dog is mature, over two years of age or sometimes older. You'd do best by choosing a mature dog known to come from parents that were not noise phobic themselves since there is some indication that noise phobia is hereditary. This category may include nicely-bred, started herding dogs that for one reason or another just aren't cutting the mustard in their current jobs and may be looking for a good rehome. Such a dog would probably already be under excellent voice control and used to working closely with a handler.

 

Good luck!

[INU]

Have we talked before (online)? I remember talking to someone from N. Texas about this last year.

I know a couple of active teams in Dallas area. I can give you some info.

There is a big FEMA training in May in College station. You can come and observe without a dog. You get to see different dogs and meet other handlers. I usually do cadaver but this time I might focus on live as we expect more hurricanes this year.

 

Please pm me if you are interested in more info.

 

I think it's wise of you to wait to get a dog until you know what you are getting into.

[G. Festerling]

Question, I noticed some of you are in TX. I would also like to check into the S&R again. Last attempt was spoiled by a broke arm!

[INU]

Lenny,

 

I forgot to mention one thing. There is this new handler for disaster. She was given a very short period of time to get her new dog mission ready. It usually takes 1.5 - 2 years for disaster. So instead of getting a pup, she visited several pounds and rescues to find a year old dog. (that was the oldest she could go as the dog needs to give at least 5 working years before retiring) She said that many rescue/pounds would let you take the dog home and 'try-out' their dogs for several days and test in different environment if you explain what the dog is for. It's important to test the dog where he/she is not familiar with. You might also find medical/temperment issues that the pound/rescue weren't aware of.

 

G - pm me if you have any qestions about texas teams.

[k9arson]

I have a 7 year old Border Collie trained in Cadaver Recovery, Scent discrimination, Article Search and also use to work him in Arson Detection. I have worked Labs in these fields for 20 some years and my wife kept hounding me to try a Border Collie. I never listened to her and she went and brought Cody home after seeing a litter advertised in the paper. She knew the few things I always looked for in a work dog. Willingness to please, Medium to High Energy, and a high play drive. I only work Cody now and I wish I knew about Border Collies when I first started so many years ago. I know I should have listened to my wife way back when.....................

Noise is the only problem I have with him,Thunder,gunshots, firecrackers etc. I find Border Collies are great for SR work and the best work ethics I have ever seen. We both will be retired soon and he can live the rest of his life as a "Happy Dawg".

Good luck.

Bruce & "Cody"