Hey I ahve a Few ???

[dobro_21]

So I just got a Border Collie on wednesday, He is 2 months old going on 9 weeks old, his name is Zipper And I love him alot, always dreamed of having a border collie. So I have a few questions. When ever we play and i go to pet him he bites and nibbles and i do the Yipe but it hasnt worked, and i know they will when u play with them but he vet said he will stop biting so hard, and it may take longer but any other ideas on how to make him not bite and all so hard? and is it commen for puppies to bite when u pet them? or my other question, im trying to crate train him but he wont stop crying, and my vet said just to put him in there and leave him and i do but now it seems like hes scared of it, she said to put him in there not let him go in on his own, he crys alot and she said dont go and let him out until he stops crying, what if he never stops crying? casue the past 2 times he has been in there i have to go get him out and take him outside and i dont want to wait tell he stops casue i waited 30 mins once and still crying. but today he cryed but he stopped after a whiler so i tihnk he is getting use to it, but do i wait tell hes done crying or what? and should i cover the cage up? its on of those metal ones. does it help make it not so stressful for them if its covered? i leave music on cause i read that helkps them. Im trying to clicker train him, im not sure how its going....i think he caught on with him name today cause every time i said his name he looked but once the training was over he didnt listen to his name. but sometimes he does. ok now the whole feeding thing. how many times should i feed him a day? the vet said once in the morning and once at night and give 2 cups each time and i have done that but he doesnt eat alot and doesnt eat at night it seems like. and he has only been eating if i feed him out of my hand, when he eats out of his bowl he gets mad and growls how do i stop that? like i can pet his head but once i move toward the food he gets mad. i think thats all my questions for now. hes a great dog though, he pretty much potty trained himself to go outside, he sleeps all night at 2 months and waits to go in the morning, he has had a few times going inside but its becasue he was playing alot and it just came out, but other then that he askes to go out side and i never taugh him that, he was like that when i got him and he has been outside in a barn and all b4 i got him so he was never a inside dog. do you have to have papers to enter them in the agility contests? he is purebreed but no papers, the mom and dad looked great also, no papers for them either. and is there any good training books and helpful things out there? that i can buy? He already follows me everywhere i go, hes right beside me i love him well im gonna go and read posts on here to learn about what ppl have done, please let me know if there is anytihng i need to do better so far or just advice. Thanks

Aaron and Zipper

ITs_Zipper.bmp

[RaisingRiver]

Congrats and best wishes with your new pup. To be honest, I'm really dismayed that you don't already know the answers to 99% of your questions BEFORE you got your BC or any dog in general. I do wish you good fortune, I'll let others answer you.

[dobro_21]

i do, im doing wha ti tihnk, i read so many things im not sure what to follow, thats why im asking on here, for ppl thats have dogs and all. casue my vet told me things and on the internet it says something totaly different so thats why i came here to see what you all done and tihnk

[DakotaSpirit]

A) You can buy breed books online using Amazon or just about any other resource. Your local library may even have some.

B ) Enlist your new pup in puppy kindergarten. Your local trainer will be able to help you with any behavioral issues you are having.

C) Biting, whether it is soft or not, SHOULD NOT be allowed. Biting in my house would result in a swat to the muzzle and a loud and firm "NO!". If your pup bites you, discontinue playing with him immediately. He wants to be with you and ignoring him will help him to understand he did something wrong.

D) You need to establish yourself as the dominant member of your pack. Do not baby your new puppy-treat him as a dog. Consult a behavioral expert about food aggression.

E) Puppies should be fed 2-3 times daily.

F) Let him cry in the crate. Removing him from the crate when he cries is simply reinforcing the behavior. He's still a new pup to your household and needs to adjust from being with his mother and siblings. Provide him with chew toys while in his crate to keep him occupied.

G) Your pup is only 2 months old. Do not expect him to be pottytrained already. He will still need to go out often. When you can't supervise him, crate him. As soon as he comes out of the crate, let him outside. Puppies cannot control their bladders for very long periods of time.

 

Good luck with your new pup and welcome to the boards!

[dobro_21]

THank you, I was looking for a trainer here but so far nothing, im oging to ask the pet stores here and all if they no of any, and i cant take my dog to them tell he gets all his shots, bad disease(sp) is going arounf, the distemperment, its really bad here so im keeping my dog inside, started at the pound and they had to put to sleep 20 dogs so far and its slowly going into town so its scary, but ill be looking for trainers and classes. and Thanks again.

[RaisingRiver]

A note about vets. Often vets are schooled in the health of your dog, not always the behaviors of your dog, so keep that in mind when evaluating what your vets says. Plus there's more then one way to skin a cat.

[KellieinTX]

Hi. I can't answer many of your questions, but I just wanted to share that I have read many times that the crate should have the BEST toys and the YUMMIEST treats inside. I have even read that if your pet has a favorite treat, that in the crate is the only time they should get that treat until it is crate trained.

 

That way your dog comes to associate the crate with good things. I think this will result in a much more positive result than just "putting him in the crate and leaving him" as your vet suggested.

[WyoBC]

Congrats on getting your little pup.

To quote DakotaSpirit,

"A) You can buy breed books online using Amazon or just about any other resource. Your local library may even have some" If you go to Wal-mart.com they have a book called "Your Border Collie's Life" it's a good book, and is pretty much aimed at BC's.

 

I think it's good that your asking for help. I have found that no matter where you go or who you ask there will always be millions of different answers to each question, because everyone has their own way of training, and teaching their dogs. You just have to listen to everyone and their way of doing it, then find what works for you and your dog best. I hope you stay around, you can learn so much on these boards.

 

ETA: I wouldn't make Zipper stay in his crate, he'll only think of it as a bad thing and not want to go back in. It's supposed to be a good and fun thing, not a bad thing. I wouldn't leave him in there until he stops crying either. That will only put bad thoughts in his mind about the crate. What I would do is, have him go in there with a good treat, leave the door open and praise him when he goes in for the treat, then after he's comfortable in it start shutting the door for a min or so, and then start leaving him in there longer and longer. But lots of praise and treats will work best. JMO

[Kat's Dogs]

By the time I am done typing I am sure someone else will have answered , but here goes anyway.

 

First off, I am a bit surprised too, like Raising River, that you don't already know the answers to most of those questions....

 

any other ideas on how to make him not bite and all so hard?

Umm, from me, no. That is my advice but it only works if you really stick with it. It isn't an immediate fix. But when you do the yelping thing, it has to really be a yelp - not the word "yelp" but like a real painful sqeal from you.

 

and is it common for puppies to bite when u pet them?

That depends on their training. Puppies do bite. THAT is a fact. We have to train pups not to bite (hard anyway). Biting if you pet them (not a playful thing) could be a sign of lack of socialization. I would reccomend giving a treat, and while holding it and the pup if chewing it, pet. Petting = treats/good things. if the growling starts, do NOT jerk your hand away - that would make it worse. You have to control when you start and stop petting. But you need to be careful too - you don't want to get bitten. Basically, try to not let growling start

 

what if he never stops crying?

They always stop at some point. Always.

 

but do i wait tell hes done crying or what?

ALWAYS wait (unless something is very wrong, like pain kind of crying of course (on that note, always take off a puppy's collar when they go in their crates for the night!). Even if they will only stop for a few seconds, TAKE THEM OUT THEN!! You have to move fast, but whatever you do, don't let them out for crying. They will always stop/pause at some point. You have to be patient and listen to the noise (hopefully you have nice neighbors )

 

and should i cover the cage up?

does it help make it not so stressful for them if its covered?

That might help. Some dogs prefer a place that is private. A wire cage is not very private when you think about it. Covering crates so the dog can't see out often does help.

 

About the name thing:

Try not to make specific "training" times. Instead, you should always be training. A clicker should live in one pocket, dog cookies/toy in the other. At completely random times during the day you can ask the pup to sit, call their name, recalls, whatever. Training goes on always, not during specific times.

 

how many times should i feed him a day?

You should follow your vet's advise. Definitely 3-4 times a day, maybe smaller amounts of food more spread out if there is consistently extra food left.

 

he has only been eating if i feed him out of my hand, when he eats out of his bowl he gets mad and growls how do i stop that?

It sounds like this pup is a little bit aggressive (sort of uncommon in pups so young). Which is the reason I would suggest going to a trainer. Their might be much bigger issues at hand that need to be addressed NOW. To start, don't push it with getting into your pup's bubble. Maybe just stand about 10' away while eating. Get close and closer. Then maybe call to the pup (and have something REALLY yummy ready) so that you while eating means even MORE good food. However, this is really what I would do to just get a dog started, not fix a problem that already exsists. So again, a trainer/behaviorist might be in order.

 

do you have to have papers to enter them in the agility contests?

NO!! no no no no no!! In the US, to name a few: organizations that do not require papers:

NADAC, USDAA, CPE, DOCNA, TDAA (little dogs only), ASCA. Those are the big ones. But, the AKC is the (as far as I have found) only agility organizations that needs the dog to have papers - every other organization allows mixed and purebred dogs equally (not to mention that they are better at agility trials anyway, but I won't get into the whole AKC thing).

 

is there any good training books and helpful things out there? that i can buy?

Well, yes, but there are an awful lot. I would just break down and GO to a trainer. That really seems the best thing in this case. Books can help, but if you don't really understand dog training they will only help to a certain extent. What you really need is someone who can watch your dog and "figure them out" and then help you, answer your questions, show you hands on what you should be doing. This advise is for obedeince, puppy stuff, agility, rally, flyball, disc, etc, etc. If you don't have a good idea of what you are doing, I suggest finding someone you can really talk to instead of words on paper.

 

Good luck.

[MrSnappy]

Can you describe the many ways to skin a cat? I am looking for a way to pelt Tweed once his agility career is over. It was an excellent suggestion of Kristi's. I'm all about follow through.

 

------------

 

Dobro, I am about to throw down some tough love on you here - find a good trainer, like now, or take that pup back to your breeder. It sounds to me like you might have a lot of pup on your hands, and unless you are willing to throw your hat in the ring and get on top of this now, your wee puppy is quickly going to be way more dog than you can handle. While I find resource guarding to be a somewhat normal and not insurmountable behaviour, I can't imagine a 9 week old pup growling at me if I went near his food. I'd be worried about that dog being in a passive, average pet owner type home.

 

I think it's great that you are asking and trying to learn, but raisingriver raises a really good point about the importance of having most of this information before you bring home a pup. It doesn't sound like you have a really good resource for helping you with that pup, and you need it. So please, get some help. DakotasSpirit's given you some good starting points, but I think you need someone to come and help you out in person. The thing is, a lot of what I'm hearing are the same things I hear from well meaning but unprepared folks who hand me a squirrely nut case of a dog 6 months later and tell me to deal with it. You can succeed with your dog, but you need some help.

 

Good luck

 

RDM

[dobro_21]

I looked at the walmart here and everything but a border collie book, they have puppie books but its all about tricks. ill have to order that. Yea im going to do things my way and what works best but im seeing what everyone does and if what im doing doesnt work then ill try what one of you did. Thanks for all the help, im going to be around here posting pics for a long time, can i post a pic or does it have ot be a certin size? and thanks agian for all the help

[DakotaSpirit]

The easiest way to add a pic in a forum is to upload your picture into a photobucket account. Once uploaded into Photobucket, underneath the picture will have a code you can simply copy and paste into your reply on here. I believe that this site automatically resizes photos to fit their pages (or at least on my computer it does).

[Kat's Dogs]

A little off topic....

RDM, I will take Tweed.

I always did love the guy for some unknown reason - even AFTER you first described him to me.

Under one condition, a certain Woo must come with him....

[MrSnappy]

Oh sure, everyone wants Tweed until they live with him for a while. My neighbor always went on and on about stealing Tweed until he had him for a while, and now he says I need to remove the "Ted gets Tweed" instructions from my will!

 

Tweed is nuts. The creature is neurotic. He is a great agility dog (too bad he has a lazy, uncoordinated handler who can't take anything seriously) and as I was saying to someone yesterday, he is probably going to live to be 20 and will be neurotic and weird with the added bonus of being senile and crotchety right up until the end.

 

Oh and ... NO WOO FOR YOU. One day I may auction Woo off on EBay. I could probably buy my coveted acreage with my winnings. I am amused by his fan club.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

RDM

[dobro_21]

so i know alot of you are probably thinking im going to fail as a Border collie trainer and that i should give him up b4 its to late so he can get use to someone that he will be better with. well im not going to. this has been a long time dream of mine to have a Border collie and its a dream that i was able to make true, im not going to fail as Zippers Owner, This is 1 thing i can not fail at, i wont fail, i will work with him all the time tell we get things right, i was only seeing what other ppl do casue some of u said dont listen to the vet on some things, i was just asking things. We will fight everytihng that comes out way between us, nothing will break us apart. we are giong to be strong. for every person who doubts us, tells us we will fail, we will work twice as hard to prove you wrong.

[Black Watch Debatable]

Welcome, Aaron --- do you play the dobro? Yeah, this is the tough-love forum. But the fact that you're here and asking questions puts you way ahead of, oh, 95% of all dog owners (at least), and I hope -- we all hope -- you stick around.

 

I just wanted to say that some pups will cry all. night. long. for a night or two before they figure out that crying won't get them anywhere. Tough love suggestion: stick him in his crate, take your iPod to bed with you and tough it out. Zipper WILL learn to get through the night quietly.

 

For a great selection of dog books, check out this link:

http://dogwise.com/

 

Do a search on their site for puppy books and you'll come up with a bunch, for example:

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB599

 

As far as the food guarding is concerned, here's what I did with Bounce [the little pit bull in my avatar. I got her from the shelter when she was just under a year old or so]: I took a bunch of hot dog slices and tossed a slice into her food dish while she was eating. Then another slice, then another, getting closer each time. I did this for a few nights, so Bounce was looking forward to my walking over with extra treats. Then for a few nights I held the hot dog slices out for her to take from my hand. Then I sat next to the food dish and placed the slices in the dish as she was eating. I always made sure she was relaxed and eager for a treat before moving to the next level... This exchange routine is a fairly common approach for dealing with resource guarding. Anyhow, after not too long I could reach in Bounce's food dish up to my elbow and she'd just wag her tail happily. Anyone can take a toy away from her or mess with her food now and she's totally fine.

 

You've only had Zipper for a few days, so give him some time to get adjusted. Keep training sessions super short --- a couple of minutes at the most. End on a good note each time and then just let him be a pup.

 

And post more pictures! He looks like a great little dog.

 

Luisa

[Guest pax]

so i know alot of you are probably thinking im going to fail as a Border collie trainer and that i should give him up b4 its to late so he can get use to someone that he will be better with. well im not going to. this has been a long time dream of mine to have a Border collie and its a dream that i was able to make true, im not going to fail as Zippers Owner, This is 1 thing i can not fail at, i wont fail, i will work with him all the time tell we get things right, i was only seeing what other ppl do casue some of u said dont listen to the vet on some things, i was just asking things. We will fight everytihng that comes out way between us, nothing will break us apart. we are giong to be strong. for every person who doubts us, tells us we will fail, we will work twice as hard to prove you wrong.

 

 

Nobody wants you to fail. Please trust that. A lot of people on here devote a lot of time to rescueing animals whose owners can't "get a handle" on their puppies. You're trying, and every person on this board applauds you for that. The idea of taking your puppy back to the breeder is shocking, I know, but it's possible your breeder has a more laid back puppy she can't place, and a person on her waiting list who wants one who is "tough". Everybody is happier if they fit. It might be worth a phone call.

 

I've done animals a long time, but not dogs. I've learned, I can't do it myself. You can't train an animal if you are also training yourself to train an animal. It's too hard. It's like two eight year olds teaching each other to drive. I've had dogs my whole life but I trashed my first BC. I stepped all over every natural behaviour that dog had. Now, I'm taking lessons BEFORE I buy my puppy....but I did it the other way, first, thinking..."well, duh, how hard can it be to teach the damned thing to SIT"? and my poor sweet Pip paid for it by becoming nothing more than a pet.*

 

It's ALWAYS a bonus to have good local help. If you have WalMart, you probably have a Pet Smart not tooooo far away. Go there and talk to someone about classes. It's also good for your puppy's social skills, even the best trainers need help getting their dogs socialized to the outside world. Also, they will be able to help you find local agility clubs for when Zipper is ready.

 

Keep coming back and asking questions. Sometimes it's a little tough love but it's only because we all want you and your dog to be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ETA:

 

*When I read that after I posted, I realized it would be easy for someone to think I was being derogatory about house pets, which was not my intention. If there is negativity there, it was about my part in ruining Pip's potential. He was a good loving friend, and there is as much pride to be taken in that as there is in any dog "job".

[PSmitty]

Aaron, I will admit, I just skimmed your post. Gosh, that's a lot of stuff in there, so I'm just going to throw a couple of thoughts out for you:

 

Be consistent with the crate. He will get used to it. I give my dogs a treat *every single time* they go in their crates, and they run into them with a simple "go crate". You just have to outwait the crying puppy. He's very, very young, this will get better.

 

About the nipping (what you call biting). That is normal puppy behavior. That's how he played with his littermates, and he doesn't know any better. This too, will get better with time. What I do with a puppy who nips, I say "OW!", cross my arms over my chest and turn my back to them. They eventually learn that if they get too mouthy, playtime or petting ends. It's not a quick fix, but it will work.

 

Hand feeding him is actually good. It will help you bond with him, and show him that you control the resources (food). You can use this to teach him his name, too. Say his name, when he looks at you, give him a bite. I would start to put part of his food in a bowl, though, so he can get used to it. Drop one piece at a time in there and work up from there.

 

Just remember, you've only had him a couple of days. He's a tiny baby and has a lot to learn. Please take the advice above and get a good book and consult a trainer. Do you have a training club nearby that offers puppy class? That would be just what you need. Please look into it.

 

Good luck, Zipper is a cutie!

[Pat W.]

I just wanted to add a welcome to possibly the most informed list for border collie owners available. There are a multitude of very knowledgeable and passionate people on the list. Alot of us do border collie rescue, myself included, and we had a tendency to be protective of our breed we really do want to see you suceed with your pup. Many of us have been where you are, as simple as crying in the crate or housebreaking or maybe resource guarding, or some type of aggression. We ALWAYS enjoy seeing pictures of your pup!

[ItsADogsLyfe]

While I find resource guarding to be a somewhat normal and not insurmountable behaviour, I can't imagine a 9 week old pup growling at me if I went near his food. I'd be worried about that dog being in a passive, average pet owner type home.

 

I had an 8 week old pup that not only growled at me while I was removing him from another dog's bowl, but tried to bite me. I picked him up by his scruff, shook him (not hard) and told him to never do that again. He is now almost 5yrs and never did it again. I can take anything from him. My point is that it is not unheard of for a pup of this age to be aggressive in his possesiveness of food.

 

What I can't imagine is people on this board advising someone to get rid of their new 9 week old pup just because it may have some issues to work through. How about just helping out instead of making them feel inadequate as a dog owner. They are here asking for help, lets give it to them.

[fooshuman]

Dobro I won't offer any suggestions lol i am a sh*tty trainer! I will welcome you aboard tho. If your serious about raising a healthy, happy, and most importantly a well behaved pup stick around. You won't find a better group of BC owners *people in general* anywhere else! They will talk to you straight, laugh with you, and mourn with you. Again welcome and I hope you stick around, i'd like to see your fuzzy lil thunderer over in the people's border collie gallery