Back to back episodes of Dog Whisperer today

[Joe Anne]

What about his new dvd,"people training for dog's". Has anyone seen it or is anyone going to get it?

I particularly like the way his demeanor is with the dogs and how he says to "TELL" them what you expect don't "ask" them. The mark of a leader!

I tried that with a 5 mo. old Rottie in my training class yesterday (after watching the Ceasar episodes). His dad a pretty big guy could not get him to pay attention at all. I (all 5 feet of me), took his leash and said his name and "lets walk", changing pace and direction and walking like I had somewhere to go and expected the dog to go with me, along with an assertive reminder to walk easy, and then stopped and "told" him to sit, and bam, right down. His dad could not get him to sit at all. After watching Ceasar I paid even more attention to my PEOPLE students than usual, and told them what Ceasar said, about "puffing yourself up", and telling them like you mean it, what you want them to do. It made a really big difference and the people were very excited, because their dogs were actually doing what they told them to do the first time, not saying the "command", like you are adding a please.... to it. For me as a trainer the biggest challenge is to get the people to do the training right, the dogs are usually not the problem. I can usually get them to do "stuff" for me, but as soon as their person gets them back they start goofing off. So I decided to try Ceasars method of being a bit more stern (but nice) with the people and it really seemed to pay off. I had about 5 people in my class come up to me after and say thanks and they felt much more in control now.!!! WaaaHoooo! I feel better too, just goes to show now matter how much experience or knowledge one has there is always room to learn more from others..

Hey KJ, where abouts in Maryland do you live?? I am in St. Mary's County, and would love to hook up with a local BC person.

[Miztiki]

I ordered the DVD after watching all those shows the other day. I'll let everyone know what I think of it after I see it.

 

Glad to hear that training is going better, for the people that is!

[Lunar]

Joe Anne, that sounds great! Last thursday when Zoe and I were at OB class... I was basically watching everyone else through the class while sitting with Zoe. It was kind of funny... there's a ton of labs in her class (at least half the class was labs!) and they were all goofing off... biting the leashes, wiggling out of reach, barking... and the people were doing a really poor job of keeping their dogs under control. It'll be interesting to see how the instructors get them to beef up and take charge.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by KJ:

What get me so confused about what I am doing, NO TREATS, no rewards except quiet. There's plenty of discussion on this board about treats or no treats and I love reading it. We are all about treats here, if the boys give right answer. I just purchased the Treat n Train (haven't used it yet) but that dispenses treats. I considering starting again with both dogs and start clicker perhaps-treats.

Well, the neat thing about training is there's usually more than one way to accomplish what you're after. I caught some of the Dog Whisperer finally and actually liked the guy. I've heard so many different opinions of him. I think he is very skilled not only in dogs but also how he handles people. As a counselor, I thought it was interesting when he talked about the people's "story" of their dogs and reality. Their own baggage often was creating a good part of their dogs's problems. A lot of his work is very therapeutic for the people.

 

I think he has good, practical advice for the generally clueless owners he's dealing with. They need things in black and white as much as their dogs do. However, I personally choose to train my dogs in ways that are more reward based. Not saying one way is better than the other, but I prefer and enjoy using clicker based training. Dogs do what is reinforcing for them. Whether that's get a treat, a pat on the head, or not strangle themselves pulling on a leash.

 

I also don't see everything a dog does in terms of dominance the way Milan does. My clicker trained dogs very much look at me as a leader whether or not I have treats. Yesterday I took my dogs to a pet store to get some photos done of my puppy. It was pandemonium there with barking, lunging, undersocialized, poorly trained (if at all) dogs. My dogs weren't expecting treats but still were very well mannered and obedient, At 8 months, Quinn was a bit overwhelmed at first by all the noise and the strangeness of the store, but he was able to relax and schmooze with the photographer and his assistant.

 

So the point of that little story is I don't take a hard line stance about dominance (though I'm very firm about limits), am quite laid back in my interactions with my dogs, use largely rewards based training and my dogs still respect me and "act right." There are many roads.

[INU]

Joining the thread late... had a busy week!

 

(It would have taken me days, maybe even weeks or months, to get that dog over his fears. I would have brought him to the school and lured him with treats, going slow and rewarding each little microstep. He just did it, and the dog was fine.)

Miz, That's exactly how I feel. As you know, it took me weeks/months for me to desensitize Jazzy. I always wonder if it was Cesar, would he have fixed the issues right away... I had the urge to try his methods but I decided not to - because I am not professional (as they warn on the show) and I wouldn't want to cause more damage.

 

I think he is very skilled not only in dogs but also how he handles people

I totally agree. And you can tell that he really cares about the owners. Did you watch when he helped the lady with depression? She decided to train her little dog to become her own service dog.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by INU:

And you can tell that he really cares about the owners. Did you watch when he helped the lady with depression? She decided to train her little dog to become her own service dog.

Yeah, he was great with her. I also liked how he got people to get in touch with their inner strength -- "You're Italian. Italians are strong." "You're the cool guy in High School. You don't pay attention to anyone else." Did you see the one with the eccentric lady who was looking for a "mistress" for her boxer. She had zero interest in learing anything from Cesar. He recognized that, didn't argue with her and just looked for the best possible match for the boxer and the lady. Seems like he found a very nice girl who wouldnt' take advantage of the pack she was moving into.

 

I also liked the frequent "Do not try this at home" warnings because if you're not Cesar, you'd be taking big risks in a lot of those situations. Of course, you just know someone somewhere is trying it at home

[BigD]

hey guys! I just got back from a convention in Tampa and I was FINALLY able to watch his show. Kept me up until 1am, but there isn't much to do in Tampa anyway.

 

At first, he rubbed me the wrong way. But I stepped into the middle of the sequence about the lady with two shelties.

 

After I watched a few more (saw Wendell and Jingo, etc) I looked at the owners and realized that he has found the most clueless people in the world to put on his show. These folks are complete dog idiots. They make a branch look like better dog trainers!

 

And I KNOW from first hand experience (I'm a trainer in a puppy class and have been for over 3 years) just how clueless these people can be. I like his ability to handle these owners more than I like his ability to handle the dogs. If it was me, I'd go into some of these houses and slap these people silly! (The family with the two great danes!! They sit on the floor because the dogs won't get off the couch???!!!! Hello????? Ugh.)

 

I was happy to see the segment on Jingo. The guy was able to get this dog to act fine on a leash outside and really calm down. He had some experience with dogs. But you could see that he was totally terrified in the house. Almost as if he WANTED the dog to act up. Like he was egging him on. It was all wrong. But Milan did work with the dog. Not that I agree that this dog is now "solved." I still wouldn't trust it. But I guess he "tamed the beast." And that makes for good ratings.

 

Milan does reward the dogs. He does pet them and he does release pressure when the correct behavior is done. That's a reward.

 

He's a common sense type of guy and I'm glad he's out there. I don't think that it's best to show the sort of techniques that he used on Jingo on TV. Too many idiots out there already, now you will see the big men trying to roll their pitss or rotties. I'd be curious to see if there is an increase in dogs biting their owners after they try to be their on "Ceaser."

 

That's the only thing that worries me. Those type of people are not the ones that will call a trainer or read a book or go to a traning club. They are the ones sitting on the couch drinking a beer and flipping channels. They'll see this and then go try it themselves, and that's when it's bad for the dogs.

 

Just my opinion. I'm glad I got to see him and I really like how he handles people. He's got the patience of a saint.

 

Denise

[Recklessmom]

I love the guy. I think he is as close as a person can get to being a dog. Most people don't get how important body language is with dogs. Agility taught me that more than anything. Most people that he is "training" have alot of the same problems with their family as they do their dogs. They are not "alpha" people. Humans take just as much advantage of them as their dogs do. He cracks me up when he starts immitating the dogs body language.

[SoloRiver]

Thanks for all the clarification. I understand the body language part. So much to learn. It's quite a dance isn't? What get me so confused about what I am doing, NO TREATS, no rewards except quiet. There's plenty of discussion on this board about treats or no treats and I love reading it. We are all about treats here, if the boys give right answer. I just purchased the Treat n Train (haven't used it yet) but that dispenses treats. I considering starting again with both dogs and start clicker perhaps-treats. I also realize that Milan isn't about teaching sit etc. he's about control. I also was considering taking Shep to a local trainer who shows guard dogs...Dobie, GS and Belgian Malinois, Bouvier des Flandres. He's an interesting individual...has quite a calming effect. Obviously I have no firm plan which is part of Sheps problem.

 

I don't think this is a good idea. Please, call Karen if you're unsure what to do. It is best to have a plan and she will help you formulate one.

 

I'll repeat again that I am not a fan of the "Dog Whisperer" and refer folks to other threads as to why. Some of his advice is great (he usually recommends more exercise/stimulation) and he's clearly very good with dogs himself intuitively, but I don't think his methods are suitable for many dogs and would be completely disastrous with some.

[KJ]

Hi Melanie-

You don't think using the local trainer for Shep in an obedience class, is a good idea? I am waiting to hear back from Karen...know she's just so busy. She had suggested last year that an obedience class would help build his confidence.

 

As for Milan, I am indifferent. I have no interest in using any of his methods etc..

Kim

[Meg's mum]

I have his book but haven't seen the shows. Frankly I've read so much about training, puppies and border collies in the last six months that I am REALLY confused about what to believe.

 

I can't even imagine 100% positive training. Sometimes I have to correct Meg right out of her comfort zone quickly and clearly. Barking loudly works best with her...then she goes into appeasement. She knows what a certain voice elevation and accent means when I use her name, and it means "Holy cow, I'm not going to get away this so I'll do what she wants and she'll love me and forgive me".

 

I can't underscore the issue of exercise. Its so perplexing and difficult for non 24/7 puppy parents. When Meg is tired, she is the sweetest and most attentively obedient puppy in the world and when she isn't tired she can be a world class brat. "You can't make me.....".

[Recklessmom]

I am going through that with Reck also. I don't think their is such a thing as 100% positive training. There are some good things to learn from Ceasar. "Calm and Assertive energy" is the key.

You have combine the two. My trainer uses pinch collars and teaches you how to use them. I have to say. Reck responds totally different. After a couple of minutes he learned that what behavior I was looking for. Now I don't have to correct him near as much. Keep in mind he is also in that teenage stage.

 

"You can't make me.....".

[echo44]

I love the show and also have the DVD

I feel the most important lesson from this is to project strong

confidence and to act like pack leader

I have used` some of his methods and they seem to be working

example mikey is freaked out by cars. I have tried everything including distracting him with "leave it" and giving a treat

my big mistake is acting nurturing at these moment like" its ok mikey its only a car or get mad and worked up "lets go!"

Ceaser says ignore the behavior keep walking with calm , firm assertiveness pretend you are royality walking with your royal dogs it seems to be working.

[Recklessmom]

We have used some also. I have watched the DVD as well.