Jump to content
BC Boards


Registered Users
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by KelliePup

  1. Thank you Yes, that. I did mention that I'm still sick, so my typing and proof reading skills aren't the best today... Too much brain activity required.
  2. "Biological and technological distinctiveness..." I guess that narrows it down to Border Collies But, awww... I thought we were just going with TOS, now we have the Next Generation!
  3. Good advice. I admit that I haven't read the back story, but, given that he's okay with pulling on the collar, have you considered trying an EasyWalk harness? Contrary to the belief of some trainers I know, it can be eventually phased out, it'll give him an extra pull toward you, and it won't damage his esophagus in the mean time.
  4. If I remember right, Spock had one as a pet... name started with and "E" and was featured in the Animated Series during a Guardian of Forever episode...
  5. Spock would train very logically, scientifically, and understand Newton's First Law: For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. (BTW, thank you soooo much Tea for bringing Star Trek into this discussion. I love the Original Series!) Fair warning, I'm about to become technical... With both training modules, you are still using operant conditioning, and that consists of four quadrants: positive reinforcement (R+), negative reinforcement (R-), positive punishment (P+), and negative punishment(P-). If we accent the premise that positive means adding something while negative means removing something, then the four can be paired together like this: R+ = P- ; P+ = R- (so the = sign isn't the best, I'm a bit limited in my symbols). What this basically means is that you cannot operate positive reinforcement with out negative punishment, and vice versa. The same is true with positive punishment and negative reinforcement. Some quick examples, and we'll use teaching the same behavior for consistency's sake (and I'm not saying this one or that one is better at this point, I'll get to that later): Problem at hand: Dog is reactive (barking and charging at the end of the leash) when within sight of another four legged animal (insert dog, cat, squirrel, sheep, or other four legged species) R+ = P- method (one of several, I know, but I'm using extremes for these examples): Allow the dog to flop about at the end of the lead without either party moving closer(you or the other animal assisting you, moving away from each other is okay) until the dog calms down (P- because the dog wants to go to the other animal and is being denied access. The access denial is the punishment removal in this scenario, and is exaggerated if the other animal goes out of sight). Once the dog becomes calm, give treat, toy, or move a step closer (R+ because the dog gets something for being calm). And repeat until the dog consistently remains calm. P+ = R- method (again, one of several that come to mind): Physically force the dog to the ground and hold without either party moving until the dog stops thrashing (P+ because you are adding to the punishment). When the dog becomes calm, remove the pressure you were using to hold the dog down (R- because you are removing the unpleasant sensation of restraint). And repeat until the dog consistently remains calm. Granted, the above is a simplistic representation of what could potentially be a more complex problem, so here's another that really is simple: Problem at hand: Teaching the dog to sit R+ = P- method You have something the dog wants, you withhold that something (P-) until the dog sits. When the dog sits, you give him a treat, toy, open the back door, etc. (R+). P+ = R- method You say "sit," wait a second, and then pull up on the dog's collar (P+) until the dog sits. Once that happens, you release the pressure on the collar (R-). Really, the reinforcements and punishments (or corrections) go hand in hand. There are consequences in both for the dog's actions. On that premise, I would argue that there really is no such thing as a "positive-only" trainer because, even through environmental manipulation, that trainer is still employing negative punishment. A correction based on what the dog is not getting, if you will. Herding is really a combination of all four of the quadrants happening almost simultaneously in their pairings. When we put pressure on the dog as a correction, we're really doing two things at once: denying access (P-) and putting on pressure (P+). Likewise, when the correction is over we're removing the pressure (R-) and allowing access/work to continue (R+). So, I guess unless you're just beating your dog and then not letting him work after every infraction, or letting your dog to just flop on a line until he calms down before moving closer to the stock, herding really employs a balanced method of training. Now for the kicker, which training method is best. My opinion might be a little unorthodox, but here it is: The best training method is the one that works for that particular dog. I think, all too often, we forget that dogs are individuals, not a collective or a hive, and, as such, each individual dog might have his own way of learning. I've certainly seen it where a dog couldn't give rat's bum about treats, toys, environmental manipulation, or anything really for certain behaviors. The dog needed a sudden shock (not talking about e collars, BTW, but a sudden noise or poke) to her system to get her brain working and back on the "job." I suppose I'd equate it to daydreaming... continuously. That one was a very interesting case, and difficult to say the least because the dog just didn't care; meanwhile, the owner thought the dog was just being stubborn, but it had a happy ending after a lot of work that involved both adversives and building value in reinforcers. I kind of wish I had been allowed to tape those sessions... Anyway, back on track, IMHO, a truly skilled trainer will use the method that is appropriate to communicate the skills being taught to the dog. Add the owner into the mix, and now you have to consider not only the dog's learning method, but the owner's too and figure out how to communicate to both as a unique team, which is it's own special challenge. Basically, if one way isn't getting through to the dog, try another, and then another if it didn't work, and so on in varying degrees. Training is a very personal experience, it will vary from dog to dog, so personalize it and customize it to fit your goals. You should not be bound by merely one way of training, that's like running an experiment over and over again without changing the variables, and if you don't change the variables, then just how are you going to figure out how to grow the biggest tomatoes on the moon? I really hope I explained this well, still a touch sick with the flu... And McCoy says...? (Aside from get off the internet and back in Sickbay)
  6. Awwww...she looks like such a sweetheart. Congrats!
  7. {{{HUGS}}} I don't envy you the decision and had to cry just reading this. My best advice is to enjoy the time you have with him now. Tex will let you know when it's time.
  8. {{{HUGS}}} Yet another Care Credit vote. It was a real lifesaver for me. I wish I could help more.
  9. I can see Premack's principle being very useful with getting a reliable recall. And probably with squirrels too. The trick is to end coming when called a reinforced activity. Right now, it's a bit punitive. Dexter has to leave the totally cool, awesome, best game around of fence chasing a tennis ball to go back and possibly sit still or, worse, walk away. Well, that's no fun at all, so why in the world should he come? Conversely, what if you told him to come and then chucked a ball for him to chase as soon as he gets within arm length? That would certainly make the game of come a lot more interesting, especially if you mixed up the game a bit and had other reinforcers so he doesn't know which one to expect. Then, once he is coming reliably, add a bit more criteria, such as come and sit. FWIW, I know KZ has a fantastic recall, but I keep her on a long line most places because I would never forgive myself if anything were to happen. Maverick is going to be 5, likewise has a fantastic recall, and, because of where we live, doesn't get off lead privileges either. I trust my dogs, but I'm going to let something stupid happen to them. As for the squirrels, I'm thinking it would be okay to checking the trees or walking up toward them as a type of reinforcer for being calm (almost like you would allow a dog to keep working sheep if it kept it's head and didn't go nuts... pardon the pun). Something like this: put Dexter on a line and go out to the backyard. If he starts bouncing around and getting excited, just let him flop around on the line without saying anything until he calms down. When he finally does (and a sit would be nice) start walking toward the trees again. If he gets excited, stop and wait. He can check the trees as long as he's calm. You might have to take some steps backward to put in some distance when he's flopping. I would also do other things in the backyard to distract him a bit from just searching for squirrels once he starts being calm, and it has to be something that he values more than the squirrels, i.e. calm = squirrels, excited = insert activity). BTW, here's Premack's Principle in a nutshell: Make a less probable behavior (something the dog doesn't have much interest in doing) more likely by following it with a more probable behavior (something the dog really wants to do). Conversely, you can also make a more probable behavior diminish if you follow it with a less probable behavior. The advantage to Premack's Principle is that you are using the dog's own natural inclinations to attain your goals, and it can be used to heighten your dog's value of you in situations where the dog may be too excited or stressed to take treats or be distracted with toys.
  10. First, I would consult a vet to eliminate any medical reasons. Urinalysis and probably thyroid at the least. How old is Sam? If tests come back clean, then consult a behaviorist. Start paying attention to body signals of all parties involved (you, husband, and dog) before, during, and after the episodes. It might very well be a fear based response resulting from the move. I hesitate to give any other advice without knowing/seeing the full context because it can be very easy to mistake or misinterpret what's really going on. More background would also be helpful. In any case, aggressive displays toward owners is never a good thing.
  11. Coming in late, but welcome to the boards! RE Playing with the cat: Both are behaving perfectly natural; however, as previously mentioned, because Duke is going to get a lot bigger, I would also start teaching him to be gentle. Personally, I use the word "gentle" when play starts getting out of hand. It's just my own personal thing because I save my correction word for much more life threatening conditions for the most part. Just a little quirk of mine... something akin to the wrath of doG if you don't pay attention now. I think my dogs understand the difference, "gentle" is more of a warning that they had better ease off where as "aeyt" means they're already in trouble and a time out is in order (its a bit funny to see them put themselves in time out when they hear it). Of course, no correction in the world means anything if you don't back it up with an association. For example, if "gentle" means go easy and that is ignored, then comes the "aeyt" followed immediately by a brief time out/cool down period. Hope that makes sense. As for the potty problems, ditto on previous advice. I would question a too high protein content, or perhaps even overeating. I've also had some of my students' dogs have trouble with the lifesource bits in Blue. My pups are on puppy food maybe until 4 or 5 months, then we switch over to adult. Rice and chicken broth (or boiled chicken) for a few days can help reset the digestive system and then you slowly start adding regular food back in over the course of several days. For my older pups, I will add pumpkin in when I know things are going to be stressful for them (such as our recent road trip from Michigan to Texas). Stress is another big cause of diarrhea, and my Maverick is very prone to it. FWIW, if you shop Cosco at all, Kirkland is actually a really good dog food at a fantastic value.
  12. Here's how I see it: KZ is focused when we train agility. She's very focused when we train obedience, that carries over to her rally and freestyle. She's very, very, very focused when I throw her ball or her disc. On sheep, it's completely different. She's attentive to most of the commands, but her actual focus is on the sheep. She will literally vibrate for a good five minutes before she's calm enough to go into the pasture (I don't have sheep of my own). My personal opinion and experience would, at this time, lead me to believe that running agility in any venue, or training competitive obedience, or freestyle, or disc dog, or flyball, or just standing in your backyard throwing a tennis ball would not make the dog too handler dependent once that instinct takes over. This is simply because, in KZ's world (and other border collies I have seen), stock trumps everything. I know to KZ, everything else is play. Working stock is what she was born to do. Just my two cents.
  13. Interesting study, but, IMO, flawed. There are too many unknown variables which the researcher does not appear to have accounted for, including, but not limited to: diet, exercise (both mental and physical), training techniques (if any), owner experience, living conditions, etc. It warrants a closer look, don't get me wrong, but I found it very peculiar that there were no outlying statistical data anywhere in the study, granted that's not impossible. I would say the parameters were far too broad with too many unknowns to reach any definite conclusion.
  14. Welcome! The profile pic (on your member page) is separate from your avatar (what other members see when you post). To change your avatar, go: Settings Profile Change Avatar and upload your avatar picture.
  15. Nic's full dance without the camera switches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q62Zd58agD4
  16. I know Attila got help from a professional choreographer for Gladiator because he wanted to do a very close tribute to the movie. He mentions it on his PAWS II DVD. Basically, he has the tricks he wants to do and the music picked out and the choreographer helps him put it together. Katy is in all three. What happened there was a change in the way she trained and her confidence level. I thought it a nice thing to show because it does illustrate Katy and Shelly's progress. Her brother, Nic, is pretty good too, I'm not sure if there's a recent video of him on youtube or not. He and Jake were on one of the televised freestyle competitions a few years ago on Animal Planet and Katy was hosting. Far as I know, that was his last major dance before he went into the military. Here's the rundown on scoring in the WFO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWR7gMgXXZ0&feature=related Nic Massey and Jake on Animal Planet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N3eX_lRaq8
  17. I thought so I like seeing what others come up with, from the just beginning to the very experienced.
  18. I think they're beautiful. Even the videos of just beginning or training. It shows the evolution of the dog/owner relationship and work. No one starts at the top, it takes lots and lots of practice to get there. Kayzie's still working on her side step, Maverick's back legs really won't allow him to. The couple of times we tried were not pretty, so he does kind of a modified step. His favorites are weaves and spins, so I try to pick songs that let him do that. Kayzie is much more flowing, but in a really fast kind of way. She likes to move around the ring or stage (where ever we are) and do a few "big" moves.
  19. It's great Kristine Thanks for making me smile. That's what I'm talking about, just people doing things with their dogs and enjoying it. Now I'll have to see about actually videoing one or both of the routines I'm working on with Kayzie. Maybe pull Maverick out of "retirement" for another dance, which he really, really likes doing
  20. So sad I adopted a border collie out to a gentleman who had just come out of a messy divorce. His wife had cheated on him and then went to court to get custody of his dogs. So, she took both dogs, which had been his dogs before they got married. That was just wrong.
  21. One more because I can't leave out Carolyn Scott and Rookie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqbVbPvlDoM&feature=fvwp&NR=1
  22. And a little newer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOFTUV-UztI&feature=fvsr And Sandra Davis and Pepper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e01RFf9Tr5w&feature=plcp&context=C38b0d12UDOEgsToPDskISj5BHEkpkkIWgx2r_UIqd
  • Create New...