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About Sheepskin_border_collies

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    Quitman, AR
  1. LoL! Its amazing what they will do to get just a small chance to work isnt it? Love it!
  2. I think you have gotten some good feedback there from these last vids. I agree with most of it and I think she is coming along nicely too... Good job to both of you. I have also got to say what a beautiful girl She is in those pictures. It is really hard to see what a dog really looks like when they are working so hard
  3. Neither do I, which is why I put the quotations around it...cause not really the word i was looking for...Like I just want the full attention of the dog before we go to working stock...While I work with what i am going to be saying to the dog. Like a person probally wouldnt train a dog on anything, any breed, with a bunch of kids running around the dog touching it talking to it while you are trying to teach it something, and I AM NOT SAYING that sheep do that just an example. Just how I feel. I understand how the magority trains....insted of teaching off, you teach with the commands as the dog moves freely as it works. I have trained a few like this. Older dogs for people that had no interrest in training off sheep. Which can happen,(mostly in older dogs, which is why i train young) which in that case I take them in my small round pen and I do the same thing you all do. Very Nice take a hold there too But like you said nice and clean, which is one problem I sometimes still have with Scott. He will latch on to turn something and not let go...but now that he is ,goodness, 5 I think or 6, He doesnt do it anymore, unless he gets really pissed off which in working 1000 lb cattle you sometimes have to be a little rouch to get what you want. When he was a pup though it was our biggest issue. What a beautiful outrun she has also!! I agree that the most experience a dog will get is in every day working life, learning the situations and predicting the next three steps. Oh goodness...I have trained...well I havent had any to train in the last probally 3 yrs to 4yrs rather than my own. and my parents(which as well be mine) I have trained 7 of my own.....and I would train two a summer, and been doing that up to the point when I backed off, about 8yrs of public work. Now by advanced. Not sure but the dogs when they left my farm..I could have one dog bring a herd of cattle from the far pasture all the way to the coral for me and doing with it style and know how, and I could have her/him take them whereever I wanted....then I would bring the owner to me and have them work the dog, So they could see before they left that the dog was working. Cause I am firm believer of you have to put a little training in the handler/owner as well. I have never done anything but border collies though. So like I said I never really got into the big trialing...didnt find it ness really. Didnt have the time either.. Watched your videos, Very good job!! May is very nice dog with natural talent. Got to hate those cross overs, When I was watching it before it got to the point where you put a stay on her and met half way, I was saying that to myself...I bet she does this and sure enough... Maybe this will help make it little more understanding...I understand that most do not want to put alot of pressure on a younge dog. I agree, dont want to discourage them when they are young cause then i might turn off, So you dont put anything on them, well thats kinda where I use the dry training, it is putting commands on the dog without the dog not even realising that it is "working" Although it is, Everything BCs do is working. So then when they first go on sheep, we have something to just kinda help them realise what i want them to do, and what they need to do. Without really having to get on to them hard and risk disscouraging them. My dogs and most of the dogs that I have trained for other people have gone to work cattle that have never seen a dog in its life. and did very well and helped their owners so much. Which is a joy to me. All my trained dogs right now I can send them and never look back and I know they will have the stock right there and be right where they need to be. It just comes with experience of working, not because I made them familar with something they are going to need to know later on. Like I said though I havent competed in anything high advanced, although I have no dought that my dogs could do it Also, A lot of the words that I am reading, makes it sound like I am not working the dog on stock at all, and I am completely working the dog myself and not letting it move...That is incorrect. I am just letting the dog get a feeling for what is going to be hearing the same thing you all do when you get a dog ready for commands. I let the dog move on its own. but there are cases where you have to tell that dog what you want...Now i am giving these experiences as a farmer, and Lord knows we can get ourselves into some problems where if we did not have that dog lisening to us then we would be in big trouble you all act like you dont use any commands or that you do not need them...then why do trialers have whistels and people give commands while they work...They want the dog to do it on their own yes i agree 100% and predict what the stock is going to do thats why they are #1 herding partners cause they can do that....but at the same time they lisen to where they have to put the stock..and by that the dog puts it all together. A can run after a cow..and the cow is not going to respect me like it does the dog, trust me i have tryed it Anyways, I think my fingers are going to fall off now,
  4. For me, I feel that what you are talking about here is another step in itself, but at the same time a good dog would not have to be "taught" how to respond to a moving Object.. thats where their natural instinct comes in there to want to herd anything..living or non living. Is it not, what these dogs are suppost to do, is herd what the handler wants? I see a working dog as a dog that works with its handler as a team, at lisening to what the handler is saying and obeying those commands and taking the sheep where the handler wants by using these commands. I see each command, come by away to me down on out, as the same as sit, dance pretty, stay, each one is something is something said and the dog does what that word mean. So if the dog knows each command on its own then I see it having a easier time with putting it all together on something live. Cause you can work harder and make sure they understand it...with out the "distraction" of moving stock. The dog should be smart enough to put those two things together. Which of course most are...no matter how they are trained Then on the other hand, once the dog knows all this, and then I put him/her on stock, then i "help" them understand how to use what he/she already knows on the stock. I deffently understand your point though, which with my dry training is a little different than stated above...with my "training stick" I do make it "come alive" I move the piece of rubber as if it "was alive" which i think makes it a little better than just something standing there like a ball not moving really. Just an example of what ya said..with the on out....you say it depends on the situation on how far they should go out...Well with my commands it is the strenth and stretching of the word that makes them either go out quick and short or far out and slow...I decide right where I want my dog..all by the tone of my vioce....like if i say OOOONNNN OUT!! then they go out fast and far....then if I just say Onn out...then they go out just a ways to let the stock seddle down....which in turn this comes with experience as well.... It is really hard to explain in words...which is why I wish I could get my videos to work..but couldnt even get them on photobucket...going to have to just take some more in a different format
  5. Laurae - Hey, Nothing big...just local runs that farmers put together...and Think I went to one in dequeen, been to one in Heber Springs too I think. Its been oh goodness 5 yrs sence I have trialed...just dont have the time for it anymore, and when my trialing and best friend and dog Rex Passed is when I quit..just wasnt the same without him. I would like to get back into it now though if i could find the time and go into some that actually "count" Oh Just to make myself clear...I am giving opinions on what I do on STARTED dogs..as the dog progresses, training changes for me...I praise to a dog that is just learning what he or she is doing and then as i feel they are understanding what I want I back up and just encorage the dog like Donald was talking about. Just like when Hannah gets cow or bull that doesnt want to move..I talk to her as if I am her couch...come one! you can do it...show him who is boss good dog...bring him on ect.. and you can really see the confidence build, cause they really want to please that is what the breed is about and why they make great working dogs over all others, Cause I want to make you happy and when they know they are making you happy then they would happy and work harder for you. "Down" on the other hand is the first thing that I teach(and off the sheep, we start this at 4months old)...cause for me...I think showing good controle over your dog is a great thing, and it keeps the cattle that will run...more than sheep...calm if the dog is down and looks ledd intence. So I want a GOOD solid down..which i mean when I say down my dogs stop in their tracks and put on the brakes and DOWN and with the head on the ground. I know some people dont see this as a main issue...which is cool too for them. I also like starting out a dog young cause you can take it slower and he or she doesnt pick up as much bad habbits..and a "puppy" has a little more drive to play and in my case training on the training stick I need them to chase and play to learn. bcnewe2 - Do you have a magnetfying glass?? It is about three hours I think from Ft Smith on the east side. I just recently moved up here though, which the reason I had to sell out. I used to have a farm and ran it with my parents for 20 years in Center Ridge, AR which is even smaller, but more in the back woods. I never belonged to any club even though i have thought about it greatly, Just never did it. "As for commands, I am somewhat the opposite of Sarah. My youngsters will know what lie down means off stock and will have a recall, but that's it. In the video of Ranger you will note that the only command I ever used on him was "lie down." Because with a dog that young I don't want to put a lot of pressure on them, I accept any form of stop when I ask for a lie down (you may have noticed that Ranger never actually lied down, but he did stop). There's one point in the second video (I think) where he's on balance and I tell him to lie down and as I step forward he takes off on a flank. I don't bother to repeat the lie down until he's back on balance, again because that's the natural place for him to lie down and so it makes no sense to keep telling him lie down as he's flanking around, since he's likely just to ignore me anyway (at least till he gets on balance). So I will repeat commands (like lie down) when he's stopped and I want him to stay stopped, but I won't repeat commands that he's ignoring anyway because I think then the command becomes meaningless (like nagging that the dog just eventually tunes out)." I agree with this extremely! exactly what I do with the down, of course except for the teaching every thing else on sheep, It is their natural stuff to want to be strait across from you and so at first on a beginner you want to only down them on balance(sorry forgot to explain that further)but yes everything else I agree in this
  6. I believe that the first video is your best there so far. If you want her to circle so much then that is your choice, you will be working her not anyone else:) but on the other hand I do believe that if you are going to stop her now is the time too do it...also in the first video I see that sometimes you stop her and if she doesnt stop then you just let her disobey...I am a big believer in "I only have to say it once" and this is going to make her think that she doesnt have to lisen to you every time. When a dog disobeys me, I will stop and make sure they do it right...just like a little kid they push you all the time and test you. Then I would strongly recconmend that you not train with the ewe and her lamb in there...that is just teaching her to leave one behind and momma sheep dont like dogs, and it can confuse the doggie. See you got the herding wand though I also believe you should praise all the time when they are doing something good, and then dicourage when they are doing something bad...No reason I can see why you can not praise your dog for something good. Again though thats why I train with no sheep first, gives more structure before we go onto the sheep
  7. Looking Better! May I suggest a herding wond? Getting that balance is a big key...as you know I am sure....Also. Sence I cant hear what is going on......are you giving commands to go along with movment? Are you teaching a "right there"? Love the slow motion stuff too I am going to bring my discs tomorrow..if I can remember and hopefully have some videos posted up..The ones I want to post are not on my photobucket...go figure that would be to easy hehe
  8. My Scott has been scared of stairs on his life and he is around 5 yrs old now. He will get to the end of the stairs then back up and take running leap and hope they are not bigger than what he can jump up them! I have tryed and tryed to work with hiim on this, but he just does not like stairs have no idea why....Of course this isnt his only weird quirk..he is kinda my special child
  9. Thanks for the offer. Might take you up on that....but I think my problem is that i am trying to get the videos off photobucket insted of taking them strait from my computer. Sat down lastnight and went threw some of my pictures and found a lot of vids i would love to post. So i am going to get them on a disc and try it that way. If that doesnt work you might be hearing from me!
  10. Oh yeah, i have trained and finished many dogs in this way. Im a stock dog trainer down here, well before i had to sell out, im getting back into it but very slowly... :-( I started getting into it around, oh goodness, 11 years ago now i think. My where does the time go! All my dogs were trained this way, and worked cattle as advanced on our ranch. Doing big pasture work, and coral work. Which i believe is two different working styles. If i could ever figure out to get videos up, id post some, but for some reason it doesnt like me
  11. Yep That is correct. I feel that it makes the dog more comfy if it already knows what I am saying and their natural instinct kicks in when they get on the chickens or sheep. It just falls all into place. I teach them to take ahold of the piece of rubber, or whatever I tyed on the other end. So if I say take ahold of a rope, stuffy, chicken butt, or sheep leg/nose, They will I just find it soo much easier, I have done a few dogs on just taking them right on sheep, but it is just so much easier it seems to me, when they know a little bit more than just kinda getting over welmed with these new creatures to chase, handler saying a lot of strange words, ect. I Might work a dog on the "training stick" for three months or more, until I feel that they are understanding each command and knowing how to work each command smoothly into another.
  12. LoL I believe the hole sheep and Cheetah cross! They can boogie when they want too! Mine sure did. There are so many ways now days on how people feel comfy with surtain training methods. The way I train, is I have my pups know EVERY command and know them well just by me saying them, and then we go to the Chickens and then the sheep and then to heifers. They start with down at 4 months old. Then we go up to the side commands and then walk up, and steady, oh and TAKE A HOLD I do all this with a training stick. a Long piece of pipe with a chain and piece of rubber on one end. SO It is pretty much playing a game, Then usally I put them on stock when they are able to do all that very well. Also the downing sessions are around 20minutes twice a day and then we start working on the side commands 30-45 minutes twice a day. Of course with a younge dog if they are acting like they are getting tired then we stop right away. Always want to leave them wanting more
  13. Dang it. I dont know why it wont upload to youtube. Says it is unable to convert it.. Sorry guys!
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