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Gary M

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Everything posted by Gary M

  1. I live in Michigan, grew up in Detroit as a minority as far as the population makeup of the city was at the time and still is and work in a similar populous. Believe what you choose. And it is because you name the the product, not the practice in demeaning terms that I take offense. It is not the dog's fault with regard to the circumstances of its being, its FREAKING PEOPLE, ignorant, moronic butthole people. So demean the practice, not the result. Your dog doesn't care whether you call him a Border Collie or an Oil Spill. It doesn't know the difference anyway. So AKC calls them Border Collies. So what, get over it already, its just words, right? You are not going to buy a dog from them so what difference does it make? From what I have seen in rescues, shelters, Petfinder and on the streets, ACK cannot claim exclusive rights to piss poor breeders. What is the cutesy demeaning term for ABCA dogs that are badly bred, including by so-called big hats, that don't work or tell the difference between a sheep (or cow) and a 55 Buick? Funny I haven't seen one for that.
  2. Pearse, I will freely admit that my use of the term conformation was a bit of trolling. Sometimes I get a little frustrated in these types of threads and sometimes feel that turnabout is fair play. I will disagree somewhat about what you said regarding how trials are judged for I have been at quite a few trials and have seen where judges have placed more emphasis on the dogs methods than the results. A case in point was a trial I attended a few years ago where I watched a larger than usual Border Collie move the sheep effortlessly through the course. From beginning to end this dog had total control of the sheep to the point the sheep never paced above a trot and with the shed and pen finished the course with more than time to spare. The dog did not make the top 10 of a 20 - 25 dog field. The comments I heard from other trialers while the dog was running were not encouraging. Stands up to straight, too loose eyed, wears too much, yada, yada, yada. It was apparent the judge felt the same way based on its score, so the dog was not meeting the expectations of how it was thought the dog should have performed. All the while the dog was running, I thought "What a great dog. Confident, capable, sheep not panicked, got to be in the top 3." So it was not what the dog did, but how they did it. Now really, I understand this to a degree. In any event where the results are judged, the judge(s) will have their preferences and biases in working style and it will affect their scores. I also don't think it can honestly be said that there is not some amount of "good ole boys (or girls)" networking in the scoring. After all, the judges are human and those they score this week may be scoring them the next. I have also talked to ranch owners that use dogs for stock work (one in particular from out west that used to post semi-regularly on this board) that think in larger part that trials were "hobby herder fluff". "Just because a dog can move 3 dog broke sheep on a weekend" he told me "doesn't mean they can move a thousand head of range sheep over miles of open ground every day". You tell me, true statement or not?
  3. No actually it really, really, really isn't. The offensiveness of a statement is typically judged in the mind of the person that hears it, not those that state it and I, along with others on this thread have stated what we consider to be legitimate reasons we find "Barbie" Collie offensive. Primarily it aims at the product, not the producer. There are a variety of legitimate reasons that one might own a dog that was ACK bred and yet despise as much or more so than you those that were responsible for its breeding. And I will bet dollars to doughnuts that if you saw me walking a fluff butt border collie down the street, "Barbie" would be the first thought in your mind and I would take that as demeaning to me as well as my dog. And I would personally take as much offense as if you had insulted my heritage. My lack of a PhD aside, I know dogs are not people and people are not dogs and I have always been aware of that despite your credentialed condescension that I did not. Furthermore, your PhD does not define what I or others may find offensive in terminology. There is a specific reason that Barbie Collie is used over Show Collie or show bred collie and that is to ridicule and demean those with whom you disagree. Now I will grant you that have as much right to be offended as you stated, as do I by what you state. In the words of us less educated on the board it may be restated as "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" or sometimes simply put as "the pot calling the kettle black".
  4. Since much of this debate always seems to come down to a parsing of words and terms, it can also rightly be said that any breeder that produces litters for a distinct purpose is a conformation breeder in that it is breeding for the purpose of conforming to a set of standards. The split comes in what those standards are and how they are judged or assessed as they apply to the result of that breeding. Westminster and the USBCHA finals are both conformation events. One is called a "show" and the other a "trail" but the purpose of each is fundamentally the same. Each is designed to decide on the basis of a judged event how individual dogs conform to their respective adopted standards. I think one could safely say that those who breed for the best examples of conformance to the standard they choose to breed for are in the minority and the rest, or the majority of breeders, have other reasons (obviously) that each internally justifies however noble or evil (or in between) they may be. Even the term "Border Collie" could be considered a misnomer depending on how you define it. It seems to me at least, Border Collie is a term that is (or should be) used to define functionality in that in its correct application is a distinct methodology by which the dog works stock. If my Aussie Tasha worked stock in the same manner (eye, gait, headset, etc.) and as efficiently as a top 10 National Finals dog (admittedly highly unlikely) I believe that she could be ROM'd as a Border Collie. Would this make her an Australian Shepherd breed with Border Collie functionality or does she magically change from one breed to another based on abilities? I believe that regardless of protestations to the contrary, the term "Barbie" collie was not coined or is used as a term of endearment, but instead as an elitist pejorative to be used to disparage those who breed for appearance, with which they disagree. That is why I also believe many on this board, myself included, that do not own working or working bred Border Collies take offense at its use. I have repeatedly heard that we "pet owners" are not second class citizens, yet when the annual "Look at the Cruft's (or Westminster) blockheaded Barbie Winners" thread comes out and my dog, through no fault of its own, looks like "their" dogs, I should not take offense. It is no different than someone using a degrading term to describe my ethnicity, but at the same time saying "but don't take it personally, I don't mean you, of course, I mean "them"".
  5. My dogs can be demanding in that way as well. Sometimes it works for them, other times I tell them to go away and they usually do. I guess I am of the type that would rather put up with a bit of their pestering now cause I will sure as hell miss it when they are gone.
  6. Linda, Our thoughts and prayers are with you in this, the most difficult time in a pet owner's life. These are the loves of our lives, our friends, companions, confidants and family. The decision to help them on the next step in their journey, without us, is the one only we can make. When you look into their eyes, and into your heart, you will be guided in your decision. The question of too soon or too late is always our greatest struggle. That it is a struggle is a testament to our love.
  7. You forgot "I'm sorry, you were right, I was wrong and its all my fault"
  8. It seems odd that back in 2005 when Vick the %ick was running around using the Ron Mexico alias while getting treated (and also apparently spreading) herpes, the National Felons League banned customers from ordering his Falcons jersey with the name "Mexico" on it. I guess the NFL did not want to tarnish its image. (Laughing hysterically at more than 1 irony here.) Try this link fore more information. Let's also not forget that the herpes infected quarterback also failed a drug test for pot while awaiting trial in 2007 and was the registered owner of a truck in which 2 men were arrested for distributing marijuana in 2005. (Obviously these 2 incidents were merely a coincidence.) A pillar of society, a paragon of virtue....
  9. If you really loved Annie, then you and DW would have seperate rooms. After all, why should Annie have to leave HER bed so that the OTHER WOMAN can take her place! Of all the nerve!!!
  10. Fortunately the plague can be cured... Puppy millers and back yard breeders, unfortunately, not so much.
  11. Bustopher, I have seen some times, maybe not enough, when new owners have been thanked for getting dogs from rescue, humane societies or the pound. I think it goes along with the "bad news sells" philosophy. But being honest here, I don't think that I have ever seen a thread started by a new forever home that praised the rescue they got the dog from either. And the rescue folks here have not started threads about the horror stories (and yes, we have them) about people that have tried to adopt dogs through them. It always seems that in these types of threads that they are started by disappointed people with "What's wrong with these rescues? They won't adopt to me" complaint. So while there may not be enough credit given to adopters, it is certainly overshadowed by blame towards rescues.
  12. I don't know since it has been forever since we had a puppy around but I am thinking Bitter Apple or something similar that the puppy will not like the taste of along with "Ahh, Ahh" or other verbal correction?
  13. I believe this is a key element in the frustration of both the rescue and potential forever home. Rescue is not, and I repeat is not, Burger King where you can have it your way in that it has readily available exactly what the adoptee wants in a prospective animal. When you see Fluffybutt on a web site and think he would be "perfect" for you and your family or situation, we know that Fluffybutt may have no recall, hates kids, is fear, food or animal aggressive, chases (NOT HERDS) anything that moves, is epileptic or any of a number of things that we, as rescues, MUST take into consideration for the sake of the dog AND you. (Whether you think about it or not) Many rescue orgs and particularly foster families form bonds with their (hopefully) temporary charges. It takes a certain kind of person or personality to do that with the knowledge that this animal that they have taken in, fed, cared for, trained and evaluated, expended personal finances and argued with their spouses (or parents or significant others) will go to someone they hardly know and will most likely never be seen again. Most fosters neglect their own families and pets just to get this temporary family member in their home, attended to and eventually placed. They have their own underground railroad to move animals across the state, the country and in some cases the continent typically on their own dime and time. They have taken vacation time and personal days off of work to make sure that a dog in a kill facility in Louisana gets to a foster home in Spokane, Washington on 2 days notice. So at that point if you, as the potential forever home, are "just getting a dog" then you are sadly mistaken and if that is the attitude you are presenting to me, you are not getting the one that I have in my home. If I have done my job right as a foster home, I have developed a level of trust with my charge that (s)he may have never known before. I'll be damned if I am going to betray that trust by letting him or her go "just anywhere" because someone that has never even met my charge thinks they would be the perfect home. You may be, you may not but I am going to do my best, by the dog, to make sure that you are. The dog is the one that suffers if I do anything less.
  14. Pan's Mom, I never commented on your posts about Pan. I read them all with great interest, but never felt that I knew enough to add to the discussion. I feel deeply for your loss. Over the years my wife and I have said good bye to a great many of our canine companions, many times sooner than nature should have allowed. I will not be one to presume to say that you should or should not get another dog or when. All I can say is to follow your heart and it will lead you in the right direction. When I lost my boy Zeke about 5 years ago, I knew I did not want another dog soon. About a year later, I came across Bernie (through a post on this board) originally to foster, but he was such a sweet guy and he reminded me of Zeke in that he loves everyone and everything, but I have never compared one against the other. When we tragically lost our Baby Girl in October of 2007, we got Nisa less than 3 weeks later and Tasha in December and I don't regret it. (Well I do because today Tasha and Nisa got into a nasty fight) So please don't let me or anyone else tell you how long to wait or anything else about future dogs. You will know.
  15. Cause we would have to include the Chevy Vega and Cadillac V8-6-4 as well to keep it even.
  16. FORD = First On Race Day I have 5 Ford vehicles. 98 Continental, 208,500 miles 94 F150 4X4, 236,000 miles 68 Cougar, restored 05 Aviator, 30,000 miles 05 Mariner, 65,000 miles. There have been a few major repairs amongst the bunch, but nothing I would consider extraordinary. One reason that Ford has not brought some of its better mileage vehicles from Europe and Asia also is due to the fact that they would require major changes to meet US standards for safety and emissions. Another for diesel based models is that the US consumer has not bought into the diesel concept enough to justify the investment. Its not exactly like the old days where if I wanted to I could swap the 302 engine and C4 trans for a big block and a C6 in a weekend, so many the electronics are different and transmissions for gas vs. diesel are differentt as well.
  17. We are currently fostering a Chihuahua that was rescued from a Detroit pound. We have had Rico for a couple months now looking for the right home. Here is what we have learned since we got him. 1) He is very fear aggressive with strangers, but settles in quickly and has shown no signs of aggression to either DW or myself after about day 3 or 4. This means he WILL try to bite you for the first couple days. After that, he is fine. 2) He absolutely DOES NOT like small (under about 10 years old) kids. 3) If you are out with him he will stay in sight, but turn your back and he is off wandering. Some recall, but selective. 4) He must be crated if left alone. Seems to forget housebreaking at those times. 5) He is prone to separation anxiety and howls for the first 30 minutes or so when left alone either in the crate or out. 6) He likes to play with Tasha, Chloe and Bernie (hates Nisa and feeling is mutual), but if they start to play back a little too rough he becomes Psycho Chihuahua biting at them and is basically a wuss. (Another reason for the crate) Its a good thing those 3 are so easy going or they would kill him in a heartbeat. So with all we know about him, we know he would be a great dog for the right owner and a disaster (and potential lawsuit for our rescue and death for the dog) for the wrong one. This is why we interview, do home checks and so on to make sure the placement is right and if we are overly cautious or turn someone down it is because of our concern for the dog. Because the rescue we work with is all breed, including a LOT of Pitties from the North end of Flint, the liability insurance is ridiculous. We have had people that we adopted to drop off dogs that did not work out at the Genessee pound, which is a death sentence, rather than calling to take the dog back. It seems that all to often when we "bend" the rules a bit, it comes back to bite us in the ass and it is always the dog that suffers along with the reputation of the rescue which makes it all that much harder to place additional dogs. Sorry if peoples feelings get a bit mussed sometimes, but we do not really make all these rules just to piss people off. Most of them are based on judgement and experience.
  18. Damn... I thought that maybe this was being required of all children under 18, as dogs are typically more obedient than kids are anyways.
  19. I know we are over our county limit, but because of the remoteness of our location it will hopefully never be an issue. I have never understood these limits based on quantity, not quality. We have always provided excellent care for our four legged charges, probably better than a good number of people do for their kids. Legally we could have dozens of children (heaven forbid), but more than 3 pet animals is verboten. I wish I had the money to challenge this in court on the basis of restrictions on my rights to own property (which our pets are in the eyes of the law) and the taking of property without just compensation. Given our gooberment's past history of ignoring the Constitution, of denying explictly cited rights and declaring rights where none exist, I am sure I would lose, but would love the battle none the less.
  20. It seems the ACK and authorities do not think she is taking the best of care of her puppy mill. LINK
  21. Nisa - Nisa Lisa, NeeNee, Nisa lisa pieca poo, Nisabrat, leavethecatalone Tasha- Ta, Tishytash, Getoffamydamnlap, Tishdish Bernie - Bernard, bernbutt, blockhead, bernturd Chloe - Chlodo, Chloella, Choesha, Chlodiedodie Max, Yenta - couch squirrel, couch rat, Buddy - Buddy boy, Buddud, shutthehellup Amanda - Mandy, Mandydandy, Mandamoo
  22. Tequila? One of these days I so want to get a puppy! I am so jealous!
  23. Actually I would think that as a board that encourages and promotes the working Border Collie and breeding only to that standard, that calling out breeders of any size or volume that breed for anything other than working ability would be considered a good thing. Many people new to the breed come to this board before buying a BC to look for advice or recommendations. Some come after buying from a breeder with other than working ability in mind to lament their decision to buy from that breeder only to find that had they known earlier, they would have avoided that breeder like the plaque. If a breeder feels they have been maligned in these pages, they are always free to join and question or rebut any allegations about their operation. With the current state of the economy and more pet animals being thrown away every day, most to their eventual premature demise, anything that can be done to discourage wreckless and useless breeding operations, not to mention dilution of the breed is something I will not find fault with, even if some consider it a waste of bandwidth. edited
  24. Julie, I found the beginning of your last post quite interesting considering I had just got done reading this . Sorry for the hijack... back to our regular programming.
  25. I think another reason some people may avoid the term "herding" is that in many cases, pet owners use the term mistakenly to describe what BC's may do with cats, other dogs, bugs, etc. In most of those cases, the more proper term may be "annoying".
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