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Everything posted by kaos

  1. Hello My girl, Kaos (8 years old in 4 days), underwent a strange personality change about 4ish years ago. She began attacking and posturing towards my houndX Sam. Well, fast forward 4 years and we have recently saved up and had her xrayed (although for the last 4 years the vets have been saying she can't be in pain she is too happy, doesn't show it when she walks and that her hips felt fine when manipulated). You see she bunny hops on her return run/jog/canter when she plays. she actually kind of tripods back by tucking one leg in running on only one back leg. So we all thought it was a knee injury or something.... The vet said on a scale 1-10 (1 being fine and 10 being immediate PTS) she was a 6.5-7 and had pretty bad arthritis as well. Her femoral head (I think that is right???) is flat on both sides and both hips are radiographically equally bad so she was surprised that she was favouring one over the other. We are unable to afford the surgeries at this time and are going with sub-Q injections of cartrifen (I will recheck that spelling). Has any one else gone the chemical route as well? how were your results? we were advised not to go with pain meds (ie:metacam) because she would just feel so much better and end up doing serious harm to herself. I guess I am just feeling horribly guilty because I am prety sure I am the one who did this to her (ran her solid from puppyhood onwards) and didn't make a better effort to find out what was wrong with her in the first place.... Don't you hate failing your best friends? I would have done so much differently if I had known... Sorry for the long disjointed post, just kinda needed to tell people who would understand I guess. Sara
  2. scroll over to the politics section and look at the thread titled breeder suspended (second from top I think) the last post on that thread lists a link labeled tips for buying a puppy, it is a good place to start. Try searching the archives (upper right hand corner of your screen) for info on how to find a puppy, try wording it a few different ways or looking at specific issues to get an idea of what to look for. I would call your local shelter or rescue and mention the names of the breeders you are going to visit and ask if they are known to the shelter and if their dogs end up there frequently or if they have ever had contact with them. Next, I would read the "read first" section of this board and just ask alot of specific questions BEFORE I even went to see a pup. You don't want to make a life (12-16 years) commitment to a pet on a knee jerk reaction with out all the information. 1. As to your fencing option: it isn't great, any dog will have a trigger that will overcome its training at some point and blow through the fence, imagine that happens as a car speeds by and takes out your otherwise really obedient pet. Or consider that your pet remains obedient but someone elses is roaming, just escaped or walking off lead and charges into your yard and attacks your dog (doesn't take more than a few seconds for serious injuries in a dog attack) Could you construct a small enclosed run off to the side for those times when you have to "just nip back inside for something ?" Your second concern: It is a commitment thing, you just have to get up early and walk in the cooler (relative I know) air of the morning and later at night, and in the winter suffer the cold and deal. Mental exercise is just as important as physical and necessary to prevent boredom nad unwanted behaviours, which means you will need to walk your dog as well as play mentally challenging games and activities to wear out its brain as well... kind of a double commitment. doggie daycare IS costly and not always well run, do you have leash free areas near by? which you certainly don't want to bring a puppy to until it is full grown or past most of of its fear stages. do you have close friends with even tempered and well trained dogs who you could have playdates with ? About the litters you are going to see: avoid AKC they are killing the breed and producing a dog that is not a border collie. It takes alot of skill to produce adequate to amazing herding dogs and not all of them will work so it is worthwhile and necessary to the future of the breed to support working dog breeders, then you will be getting a dog of excellent quality, health, and temperament. A well bred border collie does NOT need to herd and is not a maniac without an off switch. That is a temperament and training issue and usually the result of poor breeding choices and practices. Have you looked into rescues in your area? With your concern about adequste exercise they could probably match you up to a dog with enregy levels to meet your needs. Rescue gets in little puppies all the time, although 6 months and older would be better because then you will know the temperament and personality of the dog and will have a better chance of successful adoption. If you would like to give a general idea of your location people would be happy to recommend local breed specific rescues in your area that will help you out or at the very least give you information on your chosen breeders. Lastly I would recommend NOT going to see those puppies until you feel you really understand the breed and their peculiar needs. It is easy to look at a puppy and convince yourself that you "fell in love" or just had to save it if the living conditions aren't right (which by the way only encourages substandard breeders to continue over-breeding poor qaulity dogs in crappy conditions) Ask for references to good breeders in your area, maybe take in a few trials and see which dogs are recommended (you don't have to herd to be a part of the herding community and appreciate the effort that has gone into creating such an amazing breed) Do you have any more conerns or questions? please post away and be as informed as possible, it is the best way to ensure you get exactly what you want. Sara
  3. I guess My initial outrage is aimed more at the fact that there are that many stray dogs... what happens? one disappears we just go out and get another? where is the owner responsibility? and if they are so against mixed breeds (grrrrrrr) where is the law to enforce appropriate spay and neuter so that they don't run free and propagate semi feral dogs that are a danger to the community. Frankly I get really irritated with humanity's reluctance to take responsibility for its actions. We domesticate the dog then act confused and hurt when we don't provide adequately for it and it behaves inappropriately. If there were 100 strays hanging around waiting to be killed as the report stated, what the hell did they think was going to happen? Why wait till a child has to die before people take responsibility and why the knee jerk reaction why not look at the real causitive factors. right this is a tough issue for me, I can't begin to imagine the horror of that poor childs final moments, nor the fate of so many dogs. Sara
  4. I remembered reading at some point that there was or were several raw diet collectives or organizations in vancouver. If some one knows of how to contact them could you please let me know? Sara
  5. any chance there is a reflection or a shadow appearing on the pole, from the clothes, metal belt buckle reflecting sunlight, that sort of thing?
  6. I am using the Webber liquid glucosamine/Chon/MSM It seems to have helped her somewhat, and she is definitely willing to eat it on her food. Has any one else tried this? What did you all think of it? Sara
  7. I'm really going to miss his pictures and his kind posts. Thank you for letting us all know, I have thought about him often during the last month. Sara
  8. still a bit off... the dog will have amazing recoveries of multiple illnesses, so that is health related and they are big things as well as small things... I think a continual barrage of things is something to look at as well... every minute gut wrenching and operatic high note of life is described so that others can join in their fury or glory, and if they aren't geting the hit they need (like a crack addict) suddenly they introduce something bizarrely new and unrelated to the issue or discussion. Hmmmm how to say it more clearly... maybe the dog has just come through some amazing health recovery or training milestone and the Mbp poster feels interest wane-ing in their act.. suddenly their marriage will be Kaput or they will experience a health breakdown... something like that... I'm not sure I have explained it clearly, I need my midday tea What would you do Dixie girl? any ideas? Sara
  9. actually Dixie girl I think you do hear positive things too, its not just the sympathy its also the congratulations... so for example, the dog would be on deaths door with a myriad of dire predicitions and diagnoses and then POOF it is all better, and every one breathes a huge sigh of relief and trips over themselves congratulating the MDbp on the back for being so caring and an excellent saviour, blah blah. It is the attention and drama that seems to fuel it. Julie When it comes to the internet,I do what you do too, and just avoid speaking and responding to people whom I suspect of playing around for perverse emotional gain, but I do feel a complicity in not stating my concerns or suspicions... it becomes really hard to live my conscience while looking at both sides of the fence I am sitting on. I guess what I was hoping for was an epiphany moment wherein some one could have a polite yet clear action plan for reacting to this sort of thing. More so than holding my tongue. Clearly a code word like pfalzgraf would be too obvious and ridiculous, and chatting behind a persons back wouldn't really accomplish any thing other then commisseration between the witnesses and maybe enlightenment of new people and those being duped or roped in to the cycle.... so what is left? Maybe complain to the moderator? perhaps if every one did, the moderator could see what a detriment that sort of thing is to the general attitude and commaraderie of the board or chat sight. If issued with a warning or proposed disciplinary time out, the poster in question would sense the disapproval and curtail it a bit. But I'm not sure if that would happen, because after all there hasn't been any provable crime or true trolling right? No real offense is committed. Man what a frustrating thing. What would you all do or plan to do if and or when you encounter it? In day to day life, I have unfortunately argued and tried to atleast reason... no big surprise that it hasn't worked and has fallen on deaf ears and made me look like an absolute uncaring brute. Although, truth be told, I don't regret that as much as I do silence. Interesting discussion every one, lets see if we can generate some more ideas or action plans. Sara
  10. I love the way topics evolve around here.. never a dull moment is there? Well, I guess the overwhelming consensus is that the behaviours that go along with Munchausen's DO occur in pet relationships... really the question is how do you draw the fine line? front line pet care workers have my immense pity for trying to decipher the puzzle of whether or not a person is genuinely concerned for their pet and simply too involved/obsessed or truly using their pet as a vehicle to feed their need for attention. Which brings me to my next question; in lieu of a confirmed doctor's diagnosis, and considering the insidious nature of the disease and or symptoms... what can the dog community do to try and protect the victims ? No one wants to be the a$$ who brings further pain and suffering to a fellow pet owner just trying to help their animal... yet at the same time... no one wants to just sit idly by if a pet is at risk or suffering from unwarranted medical tests/attention or direct harm.... I think we have two different situations being examined in this thread: 1.real life/witnessed behaviour consistent with munchausens 2. Internet behaviour and posting attempts that appear to be consistent with the syndrom. What type of protocols would you all follow in each case? what tell tale signs do you look for and that certainly tip you off? I'm looking forward to this discussion and hope that we as a pet owning community can find some kind action plan or at least awareness Sara
  11. Well here is a peculiar topic.... I'm sure most people have heard about Munchausen's disease> wherein the diseased person makes themself ill in an effort to gain attention, they become addicted to the sympathy attention. There is also Munchausen's by proxy wherein a person will make some one else ill inorder to receive sympathy or acclaim as a great caregiver. (I am reminded of the lady who killed her son with salt in his IV) So here is my question... Do you think it could ever occur in a pet relationship? Our pets are completely dependent upon us for survival and well being, much like children except they cannot even speak to betray the true nature of their illness. Sadly they are the perfect victim for a disease of this nature. Maybe some of the groomers, vet techs, and vets could speak up and say if they had ever encountered this before. What do you all think? Certainly a bizarre topic, but one that may bare some discussion too. Sara
  12. Karen Where in central ontario are you situated? The University of Guelph has a vet college and a veterinary behaviourist on staff, she is excellent and very approachable. You should give her a call Dr Cimmons I believe her name is, (maybe Simmons?) Not every one who calls themselves a "behavourist" actually is, so make sure that you find a board certified veterinary behavourist, also discuss these issues with your vet. Before seeing the behavourist you will want to make sure the dog is not sick or injured in any way, if petting produces growling, it may have hip dysplasia and petting hurts it, tyus the growling and teeth, a slipped disc in teh spine, an injured leg... you get the idea... There are multiple training schools through Ontario, however, most will be completely unequipped to properly deal with true aggression (if that is what is actually going on) and will actually make the problem that much more difficult. You have already comitted one HUGE error with your new dog , that of exposing it to a ridiculously difficult situation that most even tempered dogs are unfit to deal with. If you are concerned about lawsuits, (As you rightfully should be) then you have to make the effort to keep the dog under control at all times. As well if you are keeping it, you need to gain its trust and actually get to know it and its triggers, which means not placing it in situations that you cannot control or predict, If it had caught your friends skin and not her coat, you would be in serious trouble... I am pointing all this out because it will be the dog who will be paying the ultimate price for reacting to a situation it is not comfortable in, if you are keeping the dog then you have to protect it from its own behaviour. I also live in Ontario and would be happy to help you find a training school or provide the number for the behaviourist, just let me know Sara
  13. Hi Sue I wonder if you could define the bumps abit more.. you see my sammy (houndX) has what are described as cysts. They vary in size but generally start smallish then get larger as they fill with gunk, they can be pinky, blacky grey (like a black head) or dull yellowish depending on the skin tone of the area and also whether it has ruptured and come incontact with the air or not. What they all have in common is the same waxy crud in them or encapsulated nugget of white translucent white goop, often I will be petting her and come across a lump that has ruptured and their will be a plug in it if it hasn't fully drained... kinda gross but nothing to worry about. She generally has between 2-8 of them on her body at a time. All in different stages of growth or drainage some never rupture and just go away, some seem to get stuck in a cycle of growing rupturing and growing again... All this to say I'm sure it was the first thing your vet ruled out... being the least dangerous and easiest to diagnose.. but I just thought I would mention it incase it was overlooked in favor or more scary things as can happen when scary things are what you deal with day to day. Sams bumps will leak clear fluid, weep if you will if the kin surrouding them is sufficiently irritated or too robustly handled. She has had them on her muzzle (looked like a wart) and all over her body, even between her toes, not on an eyelid yet, although I'm sure its just a matter of time. I hope your answers come quickly and they are positive and not scary, Not knowing is always the hardest part.. you are in limbo can't go forward can't go back. Just love her as much as you can Sara
  14. Not to hijac your thread but we had an amusing hair loss episode with kaos when she was a pup. We noticed one day that she appeared to be thining/balding... like george on seinfeld or bruce willis. Just the top of her head. She was about 10-12 weeks old... we consulted all of the vet students we used to walk our dogs with at our local unofficial leash free area and decided because there was no sign of infection or sores to just observe for a while. Well a after a few weeks she became completely bald still with no sign of infection or irritaion anything. we had a full work up at the vet and nothing turned up so they began talking about some of the terrible diseases or psychological issues that could cause hair loss and we became understandably freaked out! Long story short... we had a low to the ground futon couch in our living room and our two dogs, sam (1 year old) and kaos (12-13 weeks)loved to play hide and seek with it. Because Kaos was tiny she would dart underneath and zip out nip sam or chase her around then zip back under to hide and wait to get her again. They loved the game and played as often as we would let them. As we all know very young puppies grow at an astonishing rate, which kaos was doing and she continued to play the game, so as she grew she would occasionally bonk her head as she flitted in and out from under the couch. Thats right folks the game was that intense and exciting that she was scalping herself continually!!! we killed ourselves laughing when we finally realized what was going on (and of course blocked the space under the couch). Sometimes the answers are just goofy! Sara I hope you find out quickly because it really sucks not knowing.
  15. Hello Every one I was just wondering what the best way to clean a cut between my girls toes is..... I thought it was doing alright but she can't seem to cleave it alone and it is looking weepy. I'm thinking of immersing her foot in a hydrogen peroxide bath and applying polysporin. THe peroxide won't hurt, but I wonder if it will clean it out enough or if I should just go with warm water and topical application of peroxide. What do you all think? Sara
  16. bumping myself up... No-one is dosing three benadryl then? I should get a prescription for th estronger stuff... was just wondering if any one was dosing at the upper limits and their observations. Sara
  17. Hi Every one sam is back in ultimate itch mode, poor little devil. I have been giving her 2 tabs of 25mg benadryl 3 times a day for over a week now, and previously it was 2 tabs twice a day(for two weeks until we upped the dose). She is still itching and is starting to go bare in spots as usual... I read that I could go 3 tabsX 3 times per day, but it just seems like such a huge dosage, I would be flat on my a$$ if I took that (I'm rather a light weight when it comes to medication). What is every one else doing? Sam is about 50lbs and hasn't yet hit her true manic mode of itching yet (where she turns ocd-ish and begins mutilating herself 24/7) so we are currently seeing some kind of relief for her, I was just wondering if it were possible to completely alleviate her symptoms? thanks for the help Sara
  18. You say that random searches on the internet aren't yielding enough information... yet here you are on an anonymous chat board asking your IMPORTANT questions. Frankly seems like you talk the talk but aren't walking the walk. The people here have mentioned what it takes to attain the level of experience neccessary to judge a Border collie, you admit you are still new to them (on your first dog, not your seventh) and that she only works three times a week, possibly only for the duration of a lesson (an hour??? or a bit more) and that she "works" cattle "everyday" whenever you visit your parents...yet you neglect to metnion how often you are visiting your parents? You have been told that a trial is a good place to start and network with truly informed people, yet you haven't answered that issue at all, nor have you expliained how you think she would measure up against an open level trial dog or a dog that works everyday on its own farm doing a variety of chores. Possibly because youhave no conept of what is expected or needed froma dog of that caliber. You have side stepped every single reasonable question that has been posed. While insisting the whole time that you have come to this point after YEARS of thinking (my goodness.. it would take less that a week to gather most of the information through random internet searches, reading the archives and current threads on this board alone etc etc). It sounds to me that regardless of the slow pace you think you are at; you do not/cannot seem to comprehend the true value of time and experience with a given breed and working style. No one likes to be told they are rushing in to things, or that they are not acting in the best interests of their dog (who I'm sure is delighted you are willing to sacrifice her life for a few puppies who will be NOTHING like her). Slow right down, decide NOT to breed this dog until you can adequately judge the true merits of a good working border collie and by the time you have this perspective you may be retired and have plenty of time to raise the poor motherless pups if the worst case scenario happens. sara I'm afraid far too many threads in the recent past of innocent dogs dying, being euthanized in shelters and being poorly bred with horrible temperaments has left me completely disilussioned with "Betty breed my dog 'cause she is so talented and pretty" and "stu stud my dog 'cause I can't neuter my poor boy.. he needs to exercise his semen 'cause its his right to". Otherwise known as the hardheaded ignorami of the world.
  19. I was told that acetaminophen was toxic as well and that aspirin was the only safe pain reliever (human grade stuff, not prescription) any one else hear that? I may be wrong so check and make sure just chatted with my vet, she said it would be about $90-130 for xrays (not certification quality but enough to see if there is an issue and rule it out as a problem. think we'll give it a shot. Also she mentioned that St Johns Wort acts as an excellent calming agent for dogs and that we should give that a go before the clomicalm... Has any one used it for that reason before and had some success? I'm rusing out first thing in the morning to get a big bottle of it (4-6 weeks to build up a therapeutic level and see results) Sara
  20. thanks for the reply, I really do wonder if her personality quirks ARE an issue of chronic pain.... maybe I will ask if we can use a pain reliever AND the antianxiety, and see if we can help her out? I know that Uof G is the best place in the world, its where I went to school and also where I adopted my first dog from. Our behaviourist works out of the vet school. How much were xrays? Do you know if there is any way to tell if the hips are bad without knocking the dog out? Sara
  21. I was wondering if any one familiar with hip dysplasia or crutiate injuries could help me out. I have always known that Kaos had tender hips (I'm fairly sure I ruined them or ruined them further if they were already bad by running her like mad from the time she was a puppy... the things I wish I had known then....) However, I am wondering if perhaps her aggression with sam (our other dog) is perhaps due to her living in pain. Is there any way other than xrays to discern if there is a problem with hips or a past leg injury? Our previous vet manually manoevered them around and said they felt "stiff" and somewhat inflexible, but that with out xrays we wouldn't know why. I have noticed that when she runs she seems to do a kind of bunny hop with her hind end. She can run like the wind and won't stop until we make her, but if she has been run too much she will lie down when we are at home and be some what stiff. she will occasionally yelp or cry when running (usually when she turns quite fast) we thought it was because her nails are so short (she somehow always has them worn down to nubbins, not chewing just running) and perhaps she had just knicked the quick... but now I'm wondering if perhaps it is a chronic pain thing. Any advice would be welcome. My fathers Airedale underwent a massive personality change from fun loving happy dog to growly snarly dog; for a long time he assumed it was just old age, but when she went on meta cam to help with the pain from arthritis and a leg injury she miraculously returned to her old personality. Guess I'mm kinda hoping for a miracle but any experiences or ideas would be most welcome. Sara
  22. thank you so much for the reply... In a peculiar stoke of coincidence our other dog is named sammy too. poor thing was never a real scapper but she learned that if she submitted or did any of the normal doggy things to soothe kaos she would just get even more mutilated. Currently Kaos has another pierced ear, and various puncture wounds and scratches on her neck and throat. Sammy has a loonie sized gash on her chest and several punctures on her thoat and neck as well. It really is scary, although we are getting better at breaking them up (although I wish there were a better than my husbands panicy diving between them prying their jaws from one another and our holding them bodily apart.) Are you planning to use the chlomicalm as a long term thing? I was told it was just a kind of bridge to help slow her down enough to retrain her? We also do the redirection thing and it has worked fairly well (till this incident) when ever she shows sign of grandstanding and posturing we tell her to go get a toy which she will usually do quite happily and it gives her some thing else to do and think about other than mutilating sam. Seems to break through her thought process and redirect the building anxiety or rage... I dunno I guess I'm just really scared, every one is telling me to separate them, but I don't want to foist either of them on any one else with all of their individual issues, (my parents have offered to take kaos) I don't want to part with either of them. Could you please tell me what the first few weeks were like on the meds, what we should expect and what you are doing with regards to retraining? Thanks its really nice to know we aren't the only ones out there. Sara
  23. hello every one Well my two girls have had another fight, it has been 7 months since the last one and it took us totally by surprise although in hindsight we have let our hyper vigilant guard and allowed it to happen. grrrrrrrrrr. So now we are considering the behaviourists advice to medicate our bitchy little bitch. Has any one had any experience with the meds? I am looking for answers on effects on the dog, possible side effects or health detriments, theory behind its use and of course approximate cost for a 50 lb dog. It was explained to us as a tool, to slow her down and calm her anxiety and aggressive dominance long enough to retrain her, alhtough I believe that before I do this I need to be retrained inorder to undo whatever it was that we did wrong. guess I'm just scared that this last ditch effort won't be enough or won't work and that I will be out of options and excuses. Sara
  24. bob why are you continuing to hijack miztiki's thread, your persistent whinging on and on about the same old thing is getting really tiresome, just agree to disagree about the issue for heavens sake and let it go. If people don't agree with you by now it probably isn't going to happen (not to mention I'm not too sure what it is your looking for from the others....an apology? a full retraction? what???) You are just making a really useful and interesting thread go the way of a typical personal attack, no one is going to win in this situation. So lets just stop it now hmmmmmmmm? Sara Someone who would just like to read a discussion of the issue and not have to reread all the posts three and four times because every one keeps quoting themselves and others within the same thread.
  25. Speaking as a Canadian... I am curious as to why we are listed as just Canada... we have many provinces (akin to your states) each with their own unique cultural/regional/geographical perspectives.... why not assign provinces to the regions you have created, why lump such an enormous country in one single region? Just seems alittle odd. Sara
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