Just so that you know, I am not a troll. I am an honest person, who was seeking help. My original post was brief, but it was to ask one question, and if I had any idea that you could assist, I'd have added further information. OR since you guys love to admonish people for what they don't do - did anyone on here ask if the colour was my main basis? No, they assumed. There was, and don't play silly buggers with me, an immediate and assumed response that everyone who comes on here is new, and therefore stupid, and going to do the breed harm.
I got the response of 'why do you think your bitch is worthy of breeding?' I got that it was anathema that people ever looked at colour. These are rather instigating, fairly aggressive, demeaning, not enquiring sort of responses.
If no one on here can tell that there was an immediate aggressive tact to what was really a harmless question - instead of a good enquiry, or much less provocative words, then you've been stuck around each other far too long. If someone comes on here, do not assume they have bad intent, and you may not get the telling off - which I stand by firmly was needed - that I did.
If you want to have forums which welcome new people, allow them to ask, and oh yes, I've said it, be stupid, ignorant, and learn - then you need to be open to those people, even if you don't like their first message. Attempt to learn something about yourselves on here - the first two responses were argumentative, and certainly presumed a particular angle with me, without ever asking. And even if, I were on that angle, as some people who may come on here could be, aggressive stances alienate people. That is what your first two posts did. Now if you all want to stay in the inbreeding, then you won't see that. If you want to develop and be better, you'll heed the response of someone who was new, was shut down from the first, wasn't engaged, or asked reasonable, or inquisitive questions. Either you all want to learn to be better, or you want to stay in the dark. I personally came on here to help with areas of where I was in the dark with collies and I did a lot of research, a lot, on many places, sites, experts, about collies - sires, dams - it may not be information some of you might like, but I come from a long history of animals - loving animals very much and having the dedication to them. My father, who only passed a week ago, instilled that in me. I do not take that lightly. So I look at the best care and information about them. He went to medical school, learned and so much about animals, locations, history - yet he never treated people who didn't know as much as he did like they were idiots. He relished sharing with him the excitement of his learning, and enthusiasm for the topic. You may want to take a note of that.
You all want to have a forum, and you want to know nothing about making it better. Stay in the dark, and you will invite and keep those that are of the same ilk, but you do not help people who are new to it, are ignorant and seeking information. You alienate them. That doesn't help the dog out or the breed, all it does is pat yourself on the back that you are so right, so right about them, about the breed. But who cares? Seriously, who cares? People who genuinely know something, care about the topic, don't need to lord it over others. They care to share their knowledge, their love of it and inspire it in others. What are you achieving? What are you telling others? That I know so much? Why not inspire them? That's an option too. Not everyone is out to kill the breed or hurt the dog. You are sheltered in a world that doesn't allow for feedback or new information to enter it. You may want to be open to that, and then others beginning in it, will be open to learning more.
I did say I was down to the last selection criteria, I said I looked at a lot of other factors of what these sires brought to my dam (meaning what skills, or areas she could use boosts in to enhance her pups) before I looked at the colour. I said, this normally gets people up in arms. Does this not imply that I was already stating that I knew this was usually considered superficial? That it was a last step in the selection? If not, then you didn't read it - you took an assumed and rather guarded approach, that anyone who doesn't fully explain themselves - because it wasn't necessary at the time to do a dissertation - must be what you fear most. Your response tells a lot about you. What you fear most - not what is.
And just to note, I don't think 'trolls' and I've come across them plenty, write a considered response back. They write only that which inspires more inflammatory responses and get the blood heated. Someone writing a real response, but one you don't like, isn't a troll. If you are also going to assume that which isn't something you like, to be reduced to trolling, well again, you shut yourself out from good feedback about the way you treat people from the start, and there in lies the inbreeding. Not allowing for other genes to get in there to stop the cycle of those reducing your forum down to the worst elements.
And yes, dogs can be bred for working and homes. Some people, like me, have a small-holding, The dog(s) work, but are also my most beloved pets. But that's me, and there are others, who I meet, that are in that same vein. Not everyone is you. I realise my dogs may not going to strictly working farms, or show dogs, but there are some that go to people who are active, or have small-holdings and want both.
And before you judge, which by the way is a way to control the world around you, there are hundreds of dogs at shelters, all bred incorrectly, and because of the over-the-top breeding restrictions, are left with no homes and no futures. There are people out there, not you, who take them in and give them loving homes - why? Because they think they are beautiful and loving. So don't discount people you don't know or don't approve of - they are also the ones saving the dogs. They just found a different means of doing it. There are many ways to have a good society, don't discount the janitors because they aren't as smart, money-making, as you. Otherwise, you'll be spending half your money making time, cleaning up your own garbage and where would you, the world be, then?
By the way, thank you driezehn. That was all I was looking for - if someone had enquired further, I did have a more considered response, (and that one was written) which I put on other forums that I knew this was something I couldn't really fully rely on, I wasn't looking for exact predictions, just something to help break the tie between 2 dogs which I found both equally lovely, skilled, healthy. I only started my original post out in some small manner to first see if this was possible, if anyone had any knowledge, before I put all information out about where I was coming from. The immediate - and rather insightful into this forum's - response, was one of assumption and ensuring people are put down for their incorrectness. It isn't welcoming and if anyone on here is honest, many of you did not ask or enquire further about my intentions, you assumed them and responded accordingly. Now if you want that inbreeding on here, great, but then you will get people responding as I do and saying 'don't assume anything about me and more importantly, you're rude, condescending, and elitist' which is what I said, and if this goes on, I won't be the last to say it. I don't mind what driezehn said, at least he said something which was open to discussion. He has had different experiences than you all, and found love in it.
I'd say to that person, rude comments don't help make friends and influence people...have you read your responses to me in the first place? How condescending they were - and since have been? If not, then you maybe need to re-think it. You all aren't open. Look at Driezehn versus Smala? Which one do you think gives the OP the benefit of doubt and allows dialogue? Until you see how your posts are viewed outside your circle, your forum cannot improve.
Oh and Urge to herd...what point are you making? You seem more like a troll than anyone...trolling around with little snide comments, for what? to make you feel better about yourself in the world? Please! You had nothing to add other than rudeness. Again, forum wake up - if the people have been here a while but they have to dredge in and inspire more anger, then you aren't seeing your people, accurately. It's great to point it out in strangers, less easy when it's friends. Senior member? Sounds a bit childish for a senior member. But that's just me. I gave you feedback, maybe stuff you do not like, but feedback - and you come back with childish comments? Grow up. Learn to take some criticism without reducing it to 'nashing my teeth, crying rivers' Childish.