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Everything posted by etlai

  1. I've searched through the various subforums to find where this might fit best, but it seems my topics don't fit into the structure outlined here. I've chosen this subforum as my experience and take-aways pertain to trialing, with a bit of levity as well. Please move this thread as needed if it does belong elsewhere. I've meant to write this earlier, but work demands have kept me from my hobby. Also: the holidays. So a couple weekends ago, I was fortunate enough to be a helper at Ms P. Tose's trial, held in Poplarville MS. I spent the weekend assisting two ranch hands, Mr J. Garcia and Mr P. Mojica, with setting out sheep during all phases of the trial and learned a ton in the process. I feel my experience is worth sharing for those just getting started, or perhaps to remind those who've come before as to the miracle of the working border collie. Brief History I got into sheepdogging several years back when I helped train a BC mix rescue. In very short order, this dog learned everything I had to offer that would take other dogs from other breeds weeks and months to learn. Instead of challenging the dog, the dog was challenging me. Coupling their intelligence with their athleticism and loyalty, I knew I'd never own another breed for the rest of my life. I dove in: I got informed about the history of the breed, what it truly means to be a sheepdog, how sheepdogs are measured against one another, and networking with trainers and breeders across the Southeast US and even a handful abroad (BEL, NDL). I joined these forums and met a penpal, Ms T. Toney, with whom I've corresponded now for years. Fast forward to present day and I've attended a clinic and now a trial with her, albeit not as a competitor. Lesson 1: Border collies are awesome I've been around dogs my entire life, and for the past 6 years focused on borders. But watching these set-out dogs is a completely different perspective than watching them work sheep, compete on the trial field, or fetch a ball for twenty minutes before your arm gets tired. There's a certain admiration I've always felt with watching a fresh border sent Away from the handler's post, making an arcing Outrun at full tilt. But I now have a new appreciation for the set out: it's a miniature trial in its own right: Outrun, Gather, then setting them. The neatest thing to me is that it requires another element not seen on the trial field: the grace of allowing another dog to take one's sheep from them. To have the ability to 'hand off' the work that had been done. Furthermore, some of the set out dogs I was fortunate to watch work were so eager, while also being so calm. They were swift in their duties, but seemed fresh every time. Most memorable was at the end of the second day, there had been a coordination mix-up with set-out duties against the running order. All while the trial field was being converted from Open to Pro to Novice (the set out point being further and further from the pens). Mr S. Johnson was stuck asking his dog to make 200+ yard Outruns to Gather and then set sheep.. for two dozen or so runs before his replacement could get up-field. And the dog dutifully carried out his Master's requests. Tirelessly. Dutifully. This breed never ceases to amaze me. They are awesome. Lesson 2: Sheep suck I've been around dogs my whole life, but livestock less frequently. County fairs and some horseback riding peppered here and there, but never, ever have I handled livestock. Being able to work alongside Ms P. Tose's ranch hands, I learned quickly how to grab unruly ewes and get them into the set pen in preparation for set out. It felt good as a young man to roll up my sleeves, get a little dirty and sweaty from the ordeal, but even a 50 lb ewe, when lifted throughout a day, becomes quite heavy. Once is no big deal at all, but by day's end, I was ready for bed. The work is possible solo, but by merely having a dog nearby just standing up/lying down would move ewes that otherwise were obstinate and heavy. I now have appreciation for the benefit a dog provides to farm chores. The different was night and day. Truly night and day. Lesson 3: Blink, and you'll miss it When I first stepped into the pen to try and separate 4 ewes from the flock to put into the prep area, my positioning was off. My balance was off. I was doing everything incorrectly (my fellow ranch hands quietly judged me.. in Spanish). By the end of the weekend, I was learning the importance of positioning, eye contact and 'feeling' when the 4th ewe was about to run to the 3 already prepped girls. But with ewes 5 and 6 glued the 4, there was a very, very tight window in which stepping forward allows the 1 ewe to escape and to corner the others. Too soon and she doesn't budge. Too late and you now have 6 ewes in the prep pen instead of 4. In addition to learning for myself how to recognize the brief opportunity to make a Shed, it was great to pick up pointers from all the set out handlers who came to chew the fat with us in the back of the field. While watching all the trial dogs Gather the set out sheep, it was great to hear input here and there about how well a given dog performed the task. Or, while prepping the sheep for set out, be offered pointers on how to recognize 'sticky' sheep. How to find the ewe who was most domineering. Cowardly. Things that no classroom instruction or raw experience would provide. Just being in the moment, picking up a pearl of wisdom from a handler who probably learned it in the same setting I was experiencing: priceless. Lesson 4: Don't take sheep for granted I think at some point, every dog lover has been hit by a dog running full tilt and gotten knocked over. The power that a 40lb creature on 4 legs can transfer to the ground is unbelievable. Sheep are no different. Having now worked with ewes weighing upwards of 100 lbs, if they don't want to move, they aren't moving. If they want to move past you, by moving through you, they will. You can't pussyfoot around and expect these ladies to listen. Being 100% assertive is the only way to go. No group of 3/4/5 sheep are the same. No set out was the same. Conditions were continuously evolving throughout the day, the weekend. And the changes couldn't be predicted. At one point, two handlers were prepped for set out (Ms T. Toney was going to take over for Ms L. Scruggs) with both ladies having 1 each of the dogs chained, 1 each of their dogs out. The 4 ewes were released and and the set out process began.. except 1 of the ewes wasn't having any of this whole dog controlling it. While her 3 sisters waited around the set out point, she scrambled back and forth in front of the pens, passed 2 chained dogs (twice), and cornered by both active set out dogs. With nowhere left to go, this 80-90lb ewe stops and realizes her predicament with two chained dogs to her right, a fence in front of her, a set out dog to her left, and a set out dog behind her. Without warning, she decides to make a standing leap clear over a 4-5 ft fence, inches from where I was standing (had I not sidestepped, I would have been clipped on my right shoulder). Fences don't stop these ewes if flight mode is engaged. Be alert at all times. Lesson 5: Comraderie The benefits of sheepdogging are much more than the competition. This is a community. It was great to meet many new people and see some familiar faces as well. A big shout out to Ms P. Tose, Ms T. Toney, Ms D. Barrentine, Ms K. Watson, Ms M. Schreeder, Ms L. Scruggs, Ms R. McKowen, Mr J. Nopsinger, Mr S. Johnson, Mr J. Garcia, Mr P. Mojica, and more I have forgotten (I am not good with names, forgive me). And the dogs were all great. I'm still torn between Ms T. Toney's Annie, Ms M. Schreeder's Lass and Ms L. Scruggs' Hopper as being the belle of the ball. Perhaps at the March trial I will be able to better judge and render a verdict on the matter.
  2. The breed is old fashioned, and not all got the memo the world is now in color. It'll take a few generations
  3. This is wonderful. I am of the opinion that the more seasoned handlers tracking a dog's progress every couple months would be beneficial to all. While novices like myself get a mountain of information out of it, as you remark, it helps the handler track subtleties. I've often referred to the Stilhope May series, and this has the same DNA to it.
  4. Echoing knowledge that vaccines help to, but don't ultimately, prevent, ailments. I didn't vaccinate Maggie for 4 years, and she was boarded (sometimes kennels, sometimes on a family farm with plethora of livestock, chickens, dogs) about once a year, sometimes amongst dogs that had the cough. Strong as an ox going in, strong as an ox coming out. I recently (Dec of last year) updated her vaccinations as I was fostering another dog at the time and his health past was unknown. Didn't make a difference.
  5. Yes. The finding that humans can remember 7 things is what lead to the US developing 7 digit phone numbers (area codes notwithstanding).
  6. It is my [limited] understanding that trials are demanding of every possible farm task, done in rapid succession. That if a dog can complete a trial, it can do any task on a farm. That doesn't mean the dog is ideal for any given task, just that it can do one if needed. Hill dogs would be great at outruns and driving, I'm assuming? I'd wager a dog or two of these particular traits could be found in any given litter of working stock. (Or have I missed the sarcasm in the quoted post?)
  7. From correspondence with toney on these boards, ref: rams: Emphasis mine.
  8. What a whirlwind of a month! Been so busy during the week, and then trials every weekend back-to-back-to-back meant no rest there either. Worth it. Was able to meet Gideon's girl (and Gideon and Micah- beautiful pups!) and started a hyper-active drive in making contacts and learning about the FL (and some GA) sheepdogging community that doesn't have an online presence. List includes D. Boyce, D. Holcomb, K. Kingsland, D. Saunders, A. Hickenbottom, R. Cannon.. Was absolutely phenomenal. It'll be a long 11mo until the next trial here Well, there's always the GSDA SDT in 2 months to get the sheepdogging fix..
  9. Today's headlines: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/old-cholesterol-warnings-steeped-in-soft-science-may-be-lifted-in-u-s-1.2953462 Key areas of note: "Modern science". I laugh, as a scientist (well, engineer). Yet, these studies are decades, almost a full century old, even. Back to the 'modern science' quip: science is rife with selective listening. EDIT: More food woes from today's headlines http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/02/fda_inspections_fraud_fabrication_and_scientific_misconduct_are_hidden_from.single.html
  10. IBCA was an entity I ignored existed until this thread. Added to my blacklist.
  11. Is this not an over-simplification? While wolves do scavenge, they are clearly hunters and classified as such. They seek out prey that would (logically) hold the nutrients they require for survival. EDIT: OT: As much as I would love to read that Nature article, I was verbally reprimanded for spending so much time at work with others talking about border collies (no more water cooler discussions for me), that I dare not do anything that looks like a literature survey on anything related
  12. This statement makes me uneasy with their understanding: "The lower fat content helps maintain a leaner, more healthy body weight." For humans, it's long been misunderstood that fat was the cause of obesity and a host of other ailments. The true culprit is sugar, but the this-therefore-that fallacy of "Oh they are fat, they need to cut back on fat" has pervaded social (dare I say scientific?) circles for decades. Ketosis being the proof needed to debunk this misconception. I'm not going to pretend to be a master of animal metabolisms; it is not my area of expertise. I bring up the human side only to illustrate my skepticism for the animal studies. I guess my question would be: how much do dog metabolisms vary from our own, provided they are (as claimed) omnivores?
  13. Responding here for public visibility. All 3 days will start at 8am and run until completion. 54 dogs slotted each day, Nursery on Mon. Should be a grand ol' time.
  14. Touche. My wording leads one to believe I exclude other variables. Obviously, that's not the case. What I was aiming for was that diet plays a large role, and anything short of a full test cycle (1 dogs life, good, many generations, great) doesn't get us any closer to proper understanding of how the diet 'piece of the pie' affects overall health.
  15. Rather than statements like 'everything in moderation' or 'some' carbs, actual values of gram/day AND ratio of total diet would provide substantial information. And, as I asked earlier in this thread: studies over a lifetime, even generations, would be the only 'conclusive' studies I'd accept were diets are concerned. For humans, carbs should be consumed nowhere near the amount they are today (Otto Warburg, 1930s, Alfred Pennington 1950s) and yet we continue to do so, at cost to our own health (cancer, diabetes, obesity). We can't even get our own diets right, how can we expect to do so with our pets? Given how many dogs succumb prematurely to cancer leads me to conclude that we don't have their diets correctly assessed. Hence, studies that show increases over a span of a couple years aren't enough. I can get momentary gains in the gym but taking sugar+caffeine (preworkout), but it kills me long-term. Are carbs the corollary with dogs on the trial field?
  16. I was || close this past Dec of taking in a dog who was surrendered back to breeder after 11mo of life. Much of these symptoms were present, albeit not as pronounced as you're describing. I was fearful he had been manhandled (literally) (during the process of rehabilitating him (and him stealing my heart), others echoed the same fear). The first few times I'd go to leash him up, he growled and ran to hide in the house. Eventually, the desire to explore outside won out over his hesitation to trust me. When he would come over, and receive petting, he would insist on it never stopping. Over time, he became more comfortable and would trot over to get leashed up, and if I stopped petting him he was ok with that. Helped having another dog in the house. She was a sweetheart with him, and they would bond. Her setting the example I believe egged him to trust me more openly. These dogs.. they know things we don't, and are capable of communication between themselves.. Eventually the dog in him returned, and it was worth it. It always is.
  17. SoCal is home to so many military and former military.. I'm unsure as to the hunting seasons and permits in your state, but I wouldn't guess for a moment that there isn't a hunter friend closer than you may think. Duck so good. Best part of having dated a Chinese girl was going out to eat. Alligator very common here in FL. Has an 'odd'(?) taste, but like most meat, receives a comparison to chicken. Worth a try for sure, just to say you've done it if nothing else. (I didn't find the exotic price to match the flavor, albeit many in these parts swear by it. YMMV)
  18. I think what we've done is firmly establish that 'human grade' raw food is pretty much everything.
  19. Deer is the best. So much of it is both edible and tasty. Make hunter friends, get onboard with some venison patties and deer jerky. Better than almost any cut of beef or other meat I've ever tasted. You haven't lived until you've eaten deer. And now I really want deer jerky.
  20. Same. Doesn't move beyond a thumbnail pic. Perhaps upload to youtube, link from there?
  21. So many classifieds from which to choose (list inc): http://handlerspost.com/classifieds.html http://www.osds.org/pages/classifieds.php http://www.norcalsheepdog.org/classified/ http://www.mpbca.org/classifieds https://utahstockdogassociation.shutterfly.com/forum http://www.cowdogworld.com/ http://www.okstockdog.com/classads.html http://www.nebca.net/classifieds.html http://www.gsda.org/dogs_puppies_for_sale.htm http://canadianbordercollies.org/marketplace/classifieds/ http://www.albertastockdog.com/marketplace.html http://www.stockdog.bc.ca/classifieds/ This is my personal list (it grows everyday). I don't doubt there are far more, and if you include international classifieds there's no reason you can't find 100% what you seek. I've seen (without specifically looking) for about 7 dogs similar to your conditions on various sites since the New Year rolled in.
  22. I am, but you knew that already Bringing notepads and cameras too. This is gonna be an awesome weekend, an awesome month.
  23. The two measurements I've used (I'm no vet, mind you), feeling at the widest points on the sides: 1. Can I feel the main pack of ribs? Yes ~> not overweight 2. From the last rib to abdomen, is there a smooth transition? Yes ~> not underweight.
  24. @ simba @ barosaurus These remind me of a story told by Mr Holcomb when I was up in NC late last year. When he started on border collies, he attended many a trial and listened in on others' conversations to soak up knowledge. One stuck with him all these years. Two lady handlers were chatting about the runs their dogs had performed. Lady1 says: I think my dog outsmarted me at one point during his run. Lady2 says: You know, if my dog wasn't smarter than me, I would push his leash on, hop in the car, pull into the nearest Walmart and give him away. Then I'd go find a dog that was!
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