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  1. It was an impressive read. The full name is Working Sheepdogs, a practical guide to breeding, training, and handling It this book he goes over all the things to look for in a new pup, what qualities you want, what to avoid, and they affect the dog's working style. It's really in depth. Then he shows how you can test for natural talent in a pup at 8 weeks (or something like that). The main thesis of the book is that quality of the current working stock dog is absolute junk and he blames stock dog trials as the main culprit and the breeders who cater to them. He goes over why tria
  2. I was looking at some of the cow dog breeders' websites the other day and was noticing that they were all breeding for big, heavy boned, fearless, hard biting dogs. I saw males up to 60 lbs and females up to 50 lbs. And I wasn't see upcoming litters where there was a mismatch in size between parents. It was big with big. For someone like me who prefers a smaller dog (30 - 35 lbs,), I don't think I could hope to find a pup out of any of those cattle lines/cow dog breeders that be that small. So I started perusing sites of some sheep dog breeders, looking to compare sizes in gene
  3. I've posted about her first full training session and attached a short clip showing part of that session. Here's the link to the post: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=37756 Here's the youtube clip. It was a very interesting experience. The trainer answered a lot of my questions I had about my pup. Most of my inclinations were spot on, though a few things I got totally wrong. And a few are still unanswered. It was also interesting to see how my friend's dogs reacted to their introductions to sheep and how our dogs differed. The next lessons I get I want to b
  4. You're going to have a good sized dog there, probably a bit over 50 lbs when full grown.
  5. Going to back to the earlier debate that prompted me posting her training videos, is it obvious that my pup comes from a less than stellar pedigree? I was curious about whether a dog who has only one side of working dogs in her ancestry will be missing vital ingredients that make up a good sheep dog? Maybe drive, stock sense, natural outrun, power, trainability, bidability, eye, whatever. Can you already tell at this age that she's not from strong breeding? Would you expect different if you knew the parents were both open level trial dogs? Nothing will change how I feel about her, so feel f
  6. Thanks. It's interesting that so much can be gleaned by, what appeared mostly to me, was a dog just running circles around sheep. What Maxi said is pretty much what the trainer told after the lesson. I'm not in a rush to put my dog through training, so some time off is okay with me. I'm only interested in pursuing it if my pup is. She doesn't have to be a herding dog if she doesn't want to. I'll post the next lesson after it happens. Thanks for the input.
  7. I can give her a little time to mature. The next time she goes in there I'd like her to treat it like work and not play. She doesn't take this as seriously as she does other things, and I'd like to see that change. Considering I just showed my dog in what was the most unflattering light possible (quitting), what potential did you see in her? I don't have experience with working dogs so I can't make an informed opinion. I'm curious what qualities you see in her?
  8. Thanks for the feedback, Maxi. You're incorrect about my feelings about the trainer. I actually liked her and will book lessons again in the future. I had so many questions for her, mostly questions I'd had in my mind for a long time, that I forgot to even ask what the point of the lesson was. I think you answered it, though. Her first impression after the first half of the lesson was that my dog was pretty hard and not sensitive to pressure. I think of my dog as having a somewhat sensitive nature and being on the softer side in general, but in certain circumstances find her to be absolutely
  9. And something else that struck me as odd after she had her little episode. She would flank around the big metal gate that was in the pen. For most of the lesson, she ran pretty tight circles and didn't notice the stuff in the pen, but she started going all the way around that metal thing for some reason. In the video I panned to her and you see her standing still by the gate unsure what to do for a second.
  10. Thanks for the critique, Maxi. The barking you hear wasn't from my dog. It was the other ones outside the pen. My pup is a pretty silent worker. And I'm not sure what qualifies as a strong correction or pressure since I don't have experience in sheepdog training, but this clip of video doesn't show all the constant corrections that happened in the first 2/3rds of the lesson. The trainer was using her wand to make a sharp whooshing noise over my dog's head and throwing bottles filled with rocks when that didn't work. She said she was putting much more pressure than she normally does for a do
  11. My dog had her first real lesson yesterday. It was her second time being exposed to sheep, the first just being what was called an instinct test. She comes from a questionable pedigree, with top notch cattle dogs on the sire's side and what I consider barbie collies on the dam's. I'm interested in finding out if she can overcome her less than glowing pedigree or if she's missing some necessary ingredients to becoming a good stock dog. This clip is from the 2nd half of the lesson and shows her at her worst. I didn't think I was able to capture the action from how far away I was so I didn't
  12. I have also noticed that cattle dog breeders tend to try and breed heavier, big boned dogs weighing 50+ lbs (males, anyway). They mentioned its because a bigger dog will naturally have more respect from a cow, and they want rough and tumble dogs that can withstand more physical punishment. Since there are far more cows than sheep in the US and it's a far larger industry, will the Border Collie eventually be a cow dog in the US? On a side note, when I looked into my pup's pedigree, I found that the side that had all the true working dogs were all cattle dogs. That surprised me because
  13. Hopefully I'll be able to schedule something this weekend. It won't be at same place. They want $130 or $150 a lesson and that makes this hobby too expensive for me to pursue. However, there is another trainer, the highest rated trainer in AZ I'm told who pretty close to where this other farm is located, and they only charge $40 per lesson. That makes it feasible. I'm excited to get a full-on lesson, especially from someone that trains and works BC's exclusively. The other trainer owns Aussie's and does more of the AKC type trialing. I'm really interested in finding out things ab
  14. I've been wondering about this awhile. If, say, you took ten working dogs (5 from cattle working lines and 5 from sheep lines) and put them in a dog park, would you be able guess which were cattle dogs and which where sheep dogs without having to actually see them work? I mean, just by their personality? Or would be just as likely to be wrong as you would right? Intuitively it seems to me that the cattle do would naturally be the confident and outgoing type (also more likely to be dominant and dog aggressive) and the sheep dog would be more likely to be the timid, passive one. But I have
  15. After that session, I had a quick mini lesson. I couldn't film it since I was handler this time and it was just me and my dog in there. We just practiced moving the sheep from one corner to another with her on a short lead close to me, using the Away to Me and Come By commands as we moved. It was just to get us both familiar with reading the sheep and where their "pressure bubble" is. I would down her once we got to the edge of that bubble the first few times and let her try to figure it out for herself after a few tries. She definitely had a more serious working attitude doing then. She
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