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Everything posted by TDFOSTER

  1. I know that it sounds like Jade is totally out of control and bites everything and everyone but that isn't the case. I do understand what you are saying about biting, toys etc. and the muzzle possibly making her worse. I only want the muzzle for short periods so that I can work with her when she is out and decides to snark...which so far the snarking is not necessarily related to resource guarding. With me Jade is totally submissive and when I have had her at adoption events with kids and dogs and adults, she has only snarked one dog that came right up into her space. I have taken her to Pet Smart on several occassions as we were trying to socialize her without incident ever. The reason the toys are out is because Jade wants to play tug of war with the boston and the boxer and 90% of the time there is no issue. She is extremely sad when she can't be with them. That is why I get so confused about the snarking. We also keep them separated when my sister are I are not home. My mom keeps them separated with gates and sometimes crating. Jade spends less that 3 hours a day in a crate. She plays outside running on the hill at my home and when I am home she plays alot with the boston terrier. We try to take them on walks but I work 12-14 hours a day so most days that is not possible for me. We have started to learn some of the triggers. They can never all three go to the door together. The Boston gets stepped on in the excitement. That is a trigger for her to start biting the other dogs. I get to be home for 4 days over the holidays so I am also hoping that I will be able to view them for longer periods of time and see if I can see a subtle trigger that I am not seeing now. She also goes to the vet on Wednesday for a work up and to discuss anti anxiety meds for the short term. Melatonin isn't much help but it could be I am not dosing her correctly either. More reason to have discussiosn with the vet. I am trying to come to grips in my mind that even though we are doing all of this, she may still have to be PTS. I watched her this week-end and even though she has been with us for 11 months at the end of December, she still freaks out at the sound of things she cannot see, i.e., sweeper being run upstairs and her and I are down; people walking across the floor above us...to me that does not bode well for getting her over her fears. Thank you all for your comments as they give me things to think about I might not otherwise have noticed or thought about. Teri PS I have not been to the Pet Store to get the muzzle yet. I will not take her with me.
  2. Jade and I will be going to Petco tomorrow to try and find a Baskerville muzzle to fit her. They have all sizes in stock so hopefully we can do a decent job of fitting her. The store manager said as long as she wasn't aggressive she could come in. What he doesn't know is that she will just pretty much shut down when we go in. Last night Jade and the boxer got into it but it was totally resource guarding and my sister not paying attention. There were no injuries but I just hate for the behavior to continue and Jade start to make connections with it. She went in the boxers crate with a toy and the boxer wanted the toy and went in to get it.. I wasn't there so that is all the story I know. In addition, my mom left her for a couple of hours in her crate with a large black Kong filled with peanut butter and frozen for a couple of days. When she returned, Jade had totally destroyed the back of the plastic bottom. Have no idea what could have triggered that. It is a new behavior. It feels like bad behavior is really starting to escalate. I have been reading up on the Baskerville muzzle and muzzles in general. From what I am reading, Jade should only wear the muzzle when she is out with the other dogs? And or we are going places such as my work where she can have the opportunity to bite? She does get cranky in her grate occasionally when the other dogs get too close or if there is someone new in the house and she things they get too close. The crate is her safe place, she eats in there 1/2 the time and she knows to just go there when I leave for work and she gets treat so I don't understand why she would try to destroy it?
  3. Thank you for you advice! Just what i was looking for. I will see if I can find a Baskerville muzzle around here. Just trying to go in stages with her so she doesn't freak and then won't work with them anymore. I will let you know if I can find one here or have to order on line. Teri Wafles I just saw the link in your post. I will go there. We have Petco here so maybe they have them in the store. Thank yoU!
  4. Paula, the behaviorist recommended that I start working with Jade on a muzzle/gentle leader. So off to the store I went last night and we started work. As long as there is a treat that she can get to, she will put her nose through the loop of the gentle leader. I let it rest on her nose a couple of times and then took it right off and she seemed to tolerate that pretty well. Going to work with that a couple of days and then start to work with the muzzle. I got the one that is open at the end and allows her to open her mouth some. I thought that might not freak her as much as one that was closed at the end. Any other suggestions to help with this process?
  5. Thank you Gloria. I will try to give the trainer the benefit of the doubt as she does not know me or Jade and she does not know how much research and work I have put into Jade. With that being said, I won't have a problem in saying we are not doing this. They don't get to take her without me being a part of it. I want Jade to succeed if there is anyway for her to do that and I don't intend to push her to the point that there is no return for her. She is a beautiful dog, She truly is sad when she can't be with the other dogs in the house...I just checked and currently she is laying butt to butt with the boxer. Makes no sense to me sometimes. But I guess not everything is supposed to make sense.
  6. D'Elle, thank you so much. You will never know "how much" you all really do. If I didn't have this outlet I think I would explode. As Paula told me :the border collie" people have it together and are honest, forthright, and understand .
  7. Yes, she is suggesting 2-3 hour stints. The first time she met Jade, was two weeks ago when we were supposed to be going to a "behavior class" with other dogs. When we got there, Jade was the only Dog and there were four trainers there. This was less than a week after Mollie had attacked her. She was freaked beyond freaked. And the trainers saw all that. They really just sat on the floor and gave her hot dog treats and she would come up to them afte a bit and take the treat. Then I was told to bring her back the next week to the "obedience" class to see how she reacted around new people and dogs. But what ended up happening is a still in school trainer was assigned to us and we worked on the same skills the other dogs were working on. It was most evident when Jade hit the wall. Everytime a big fan came on, she was done. She would just lay down and take no more treats. They would let her rest a bit and then try again. I was given assignments to work with Jade and they would touch base after the first of the year....Then we had the bite to my President. I am wondering if I should gather all the e-mails that have gone back and forth between the owner of the rescue and the behaviorist and myself to give the trainer some background..but maybe that is asking too much to have her read all that because there is a lot. I also like the idea of the video camera so maybe I will suggest that after the vet visit and we can do that before she starts whatever plan she has in mind. I dont know about the yahoo group but I will definitely check it out. And that may be but if I can just glean education from them and begin to get a better understanding and know the questions to pose, that will be helpful to Jade and me. I did mention to Paula and I don't think she is keen on the 2-3 hour sessions either. She referred to them as "boot camp"!
  8. Gentle Lake, Maybe the reason I am so uneasy is because I really don't feel like she is listening to what I am saying to her. And maybe in a face to face it would be better. I don't disagree with the new people and new dogs and for much more than an hour at a time. It could be I am just so uptight about another dog fight happening that I am putting too much emphasis on the snark's too. And Maybe because she blew me off about the dog bite in general and didn't call me back even after having left her several messages. It might be that she seemed uncomfortable that I had talked to the behaviorist about Jade but what she doesn't understand and hasn't asked about is that I paid for the Behaviorist out of my own pocket, Paula has seen Jade since the very beginning, I have a history with Paula, Paula has given me solid advice up to this point, and Paula continues to talk to me about Jade and what we are encountering, even though she is not being paid for any of this. Could be I am building a wall with her and I need to step back, breathe and start over. It seems that these 3 dogs behave pretty much the same after someone has been in the house for a bit...even Jade as long as the new person makes no move towards her...just ignores her. Jade has met Jenn so hopefully that would help in her becoming a little more normal. Mollie is the same intense piece of work with everyone. I also wonder if we need to set up a video camera and just let it roll so she can see everything that goes on in a day.
  9. Thank you for the suggestions on the meds. I want to do some research about them as well. The behaviorist recommended this morning that I start working with her and a muzzle...maybe a gentle leader. Not because she is bad but to help her from making mistakes. Do any of you have any experience with muzzles. And I am assuming I have to fit her for it? And I know that I have to let her put her nose through it...click and treat. The trainer did call last night but I know it is because the owner of the rescue pushed her a bit. I have a very uneasy feeling about the trainer...just because she thinks all of Jade's snarking is to tell the other dogs to get out of her space but I don't think she is listening when I say she will cross the room on occassion to snark Jet the boxer and sometimes she just barks and acts like she is going to go across the room to keep him from coming in. She is suggesting that we do 2-3 hours of training at her place with new people and new dogs. I am really leary about this. I really want her to come to my house and see the dynamics of what goes on there. Is that a wrong request? She also told me that Jade was probably not a candidate for anti anxiety meds because we weren't working with someone and then said oh yeah, after I said well we are using the rescue vet. She then said, just tell them you are working with me then...they know me...I keep forgetting that Jade is a foster. I am nervous guys! Again thank you for listening to me and giving me advice. I feel so connected here and so grateful for everyone's input. Teri
  10. December 24, 2014 - 7:30 a.m. - Wish us luck and that we have no more dog fights or bites before then. Will most likely post after the appointment and nothing until then unless something else transpires. Everyone have a very Merry Christmas! Teri and Jade
  11. GentleLake. I will be taking her. But sometimes they won't let the foster go back with them but I intend to put up a pretty good fight about not being able to do that. And I will talk to them about the anti anxiety drugs to see if that can help her. Thanks for hanging with me! Teri
  12. Ok -Good news...The rescue just sent me an e-mail and agreed that no decision would be made until a full vet check and blood panel was done. Now I can take a deep breath again. I know that might not change the final decision but then I will know that we have done everything we possibly can. They also have a meeting with the trainers tomorrow evening and they will try to pin them down and see what thoughts they may have. I have read a little on "brittle" dogs. Not enough probably to even ask intelligent questions but does anyone on here have any experience with a brittle dog or know someone that has and how they dealt with that dog? Thank you again everyone for putting up with my emotions. Teri
  13. d112358 - I agree that the blood work up is a hail mary but if she has to be put down, in my heart I want to know that I have done everything that I can do. I know that the rescue people are busy folks and I am not trying to make them seem like jerks and I apologize if that is how I came across. BUT it is easier to bring cute little puppies in, post them all over the place and move them out quickly than deal with these issues.....BECAUSE they are volunteers and have full time jobs and families...I get that. On the other hand, when you have a volunteer that takes total responsibility for the foster, it is a known difficult foster, please don't blow them off. And that is sort of what I am feeling like right now. In order to get a response from the owner of the rescue, I had to post a private message on facebook, send 1 e-mail, 2 text and then a text to tell her I had cancelled the two meet and greets for yesterday. 30 seconds after that text I get a phone call. That was Saturday night at 9:00 p.m. I still haven't received a call back from her and I have asked about doing a blood panel to just rule out there could be anything physical adding to Jade's issues. This happened at 1:00 p.m. Friday afternoon. I talked with the trainer at 3:00 on Saturday afternoon and she was going to call me back and it is now 2:00 on Monday and I still don't have a call back. I am just totally frustrated that they dropped the "PTS" on the table and just aren't communicating with me. The behaviorist I have been working with is not with this rescue...she is with the ARL here. And again I am way way emotional about this. Just using the forum as a sounding board. I do appreciate everyone listening to me vent. Much better here than me saying something that burn bridges that I might not want burned once the emotions are in check again.
  14. Thank you D'Elle. I know that I am pretty emotional right now and my emotions are talking. Hopefully when all this is over, however which way it goes, I can reassess what I can do. It is just so difficult to have worked with Jade for 11 months and not really have them pay attention to what I have been saying. And now be at a point where they even suggest she might need to be PTS. Are there other symptons of thyroid issues that I might be missing? She is on her 3rd UTI since she came into the rescue. She is a veracious chewer. She has now totally destroyed four TV remotes...even as hard as my mom tries, Jade seems to find them She will sit for very long periods of time and chew on the Nylar bones.
  15. I have suggested it. If I don't hear from them I may take her to my own vet and pay to have it done. She can be such a good dog and most of the time she loves being with the boxer and the boston terrier and playing. Sometimes I think these dogs get lost in the momentum of continuing to get new dogs and new puppies. Jade is under their radar because I take care of her completely and don't fuss at them. But I am fussing now because I think it is totally irresponsible for the trainer to not get back to me when she said she would. The behaviorist, who is not associated with the rescue, would never let me sit for this many days without at least responding to me. Unfortunately, no matter how this goes down with Jade I am done fostering for this rescue and possible all fostering is done for me. I know they do the best they can do and all are volunteers but I can't deal with not being responded to when I ask a question or for something. Sorry..off my soap box.
  16. GentleLake, She hasn't had a full vet workup since I have had her and I don't really think she had a good one before she came to me. She was only at the rescue for a few hours before I took her home in January.
  17. Well I have some not so good news. And my heart is breaking and I can't stop bawling. Jade bit my boss on Friday. She was at work with me as she has been on numerous occassions as I had to take her to the rescue to get her Pro Heart shot and then brought her here with me. As always I have her off leash and she stays in my office. I thought she was beside my desk but she is very stealthy and apparently got up without me seeing her or hearing her. Al was coming down the hallway towards his office, which is beside mine. She somehow got behind him and bit his leg. All he was doing was walking down the hall to his office. There was no warning, no growling no nothing. He had no clue she was behind him. When I knew she was not where she was supposed to be was when he yelled Ouch and I looked up and she was coming out of his office. There was a scrape which has turned into a blood blister today and a bruise. Saturday morning, she just walked across the room and bit the boxer on his jowls. Thank goodness Jet is so totally laid back that he just kind of looked at her like "what's your deal?" But she does do this without provocation several times a week. The rescue is considering putting her down and the behaviorist I have been working with...these are her words to me this mornig: "She can't go around biting people. That's just true. I don't think intense "boot camp" training would change anything. From meeting and your reports, I think there is a genetic factor here that is beyond her control. to say that she should "take some responsibility of getting over the hump" well that's just nuts. While there is a big push in this country to save every dog, the reality, again in my opinion, is that some dogs just can't be safe with humans. After many years of living with scaredy dogs, and meeting many, I think a humane death with someone they love and trust may be a better solution than a life of fear and anxiety. And that is what Jade is all about. She doesn't bite to be bad, or get her way, or anything like that. It's all about fear, even when it doesn't look like it. It was never my place to suggest euthanasia to you but if that is the course of this process, know that I will help you any way I can." Her comments about the boot camp and "Jade taking responsibility for herself and getting over it" came from the rescue people and I had shared that with Paula. I am not in control of the decision but I am not sure I am opposed when I see how scared Jade stays all the time. There are even moments when we are talking to her in a kind happy voice that she will cowel down. Thank you all for listening to me. I just am so sad and I so hoping there is anothe solution but my gut is telling me probably not, after all this time.
  18. GentleLake, I do also think that it is a warning from her but it isn't consistent enough in how it happens for me to totally agree with that. There are times, when the boxer has been in the bedroom, completely away and no other stressors have been around and she will sit on the couch and bark at him and sometimes come off the couch and go after him......now, he is so laid back he generally just turns around and goes back in the bedroom. But I feel that is a bit unfair to him. Other times there are other factors and I get that she is saying...leave me alone. Sometimes I thought it was resource guarding but again, there are times when not even that can be aligned with the behavior. I will keep watching her and trying to figure it out because she loves being with the other dogs and actually gets sort of bummed when they can't be together due to the latest frakas. And I agree, Jade doesn't have to be an active participant for Christmas as it is only one evening and a part of another day. At Thanksgiving, they were there, living in her space. I also want to work with her on new people and accepting them to coming into the house....so she will be out for a bit. We go tomorrow night for another assessment from the rescue trainers so hopefully they also will have some ideas for me as they watch her and the videos I am doing. But I am going to ask them to come to the house and I will pay for it. I think it is really important for them to be there and experience the dynamics of all of them together. Friday we have to go out to the rescue facility and have a heart worm test and the new shot...it will be her second one. That means she has to come to work with me for awhile and then to there. That will stress her considerably and I just hate that. Do you have any suggestions for car riding. She does OK but I can tell she is scared. She sits right behind me, with her nose at the window very close to the back of my seat. I try really hard to take her places that noting bad happens and for just short trips around the block to try and help but so far not seeing her relax any at all. Have a great day Teri
  19. D'Elle you are so right. And Jade has her routine down pat. She has had a bit of a set back and has another urinary tract infection. She really hasn't felt good and has had some accidents in the house...which is one of my clues for her that something is going on. No fighting with the resident alpha Boston Terrier since the Friday event. We watch them very closely and don't allow too much in your face playing and keep them separated during the day when Mom is the only one home with them. So far soo good. Twice now I have been told that Jade's snarkiness is just a way to tell the other dogs..whether ours or the ones when we go to adoption events...that they are too close or in her space or she has had enough. Unfortunately I don't have a positive reaction to this cause it scares the bejeesus out of me because many times there is little or no warning and I am scared to death a dog fight will ensue. Anyone have any suggestions to help me not freak. I immediately grab her and pull her back and say no. I am concerned that I am not helping and I don't know how to turn this into positive reinforcement. I will ask the trainers Wednesday night but I would really like to hear from anyone else who may have had this issue and how they dealt with it. Christmas is rapidly approaching and I want to be better prepared for the chaos if I can. Thank you all for reading and responding. Teri
  20. It very well could be that she doesn't like Jet's body language. In addition to being a boxer with a pushed up chest, he has a bad back leg which makes his stance not very pretty, so maybe that is a part of it. I will spend the time to try and figure out more about what seems to trigger the events. I am having her tested for a urinary tract infection right now because she seems to spend way more time licking herself than is normal, the Boston Terrier is very interested in that part of her anatomy right now...which is very unusual, and she had an accident yesterday morning when we first got up, which is not like her. Maybe that is part of the issue now. Since I can't really pinpoint something to have her evaluated for, the rescue isn't keen about racking up vet bills. She is due for the heart worm shot next Friday so I will ask that while he is testing her and waiting on the test if he can do an exam on her to see if he sees anything going on. I also think I need to try and get her back in our normal routine with not so much havoc and give her a chance to settle down some. The relative visit with the 4 young children and all the noise and chaos took a toll on all the dogs, actually. Jade in particular I think has some carryover from it.
  21. D'Elle, I will take the advice of staying under the threshold. I have not been able to pin down exacly the snarking with the boxer becuase it is not consistent. Time of day doesn't seem to matter. They may have just been laying beside each other and Jet leaves the room and comes back. She will on occassion...but not all the time...run across the room to snark him. She does seem to growl at him if she is sitting beside me...so I am thinking that is on the order of resource guarding...but how do I change that? Teri
  22. Betsy and Gentle Lake, Thank you for that advice..Don't know why I didn't think about that. There is an event this week-end but I have decided that she has had enough for a bit. But for the one in January I think we will try that. I need to find a treat that she is over the top for and take those as she is not very interested in her regular treats at these events. Does anyone have any thoughts about how I avoid the snarkiness with the boxer at home. They have moments when everything is just perfect and then all of a sudden...not even that they have been near eae snarking. And my reaction is definitely not positive and I don't know how to change that. They can sleep by one another...they can play tug together so I am just not sure what to do about it. Patience is a virtue and I am trying to become virtuous. Not sure I am getting there though!
  23. Pat, I finally made it back to the forum and I am so glad to hear the progress of Logan. I hope you and your husband are doing OK
  24. D'Elle, Thanks so much for writing. On a realisic basis I know that I should not take her failure to get past her fear personally but my heart hurts for her and I do take it personal. I have had Jade since January 31 I think. And when I look back at where she was and where she is I know that we have made some really good progress...and with that being said you can tell she wants to come out of the shell but just can't seem to get over that hump. She is inquisitive...she will go up to new people and sniff. She allows people to pet her...like you said it may be more of a tolerate but she doesn't freak about it. I have worked with a behaviorist from the ARL who has gotten us this far. I have now started working with a group of four trainers/behaviorists to see if we can help her some more. Everyone is positive based. Jade and I work on basic commands such as sit, down, lay, spin, and "find it" (which is treats hidden in places that she has to use her nose to find them and sometimes in places that she is a bit scared to enter). We play toss and catch and return. She loves squeaky toys which I find kind of odd. Just because loud noises bother her. We have worked on throwing the ball in waste baskets for her to retrieve...she has gotten less and less timid with that exercise. Took her to the ARL obedience class..again not for the actual class because she could not focus but to be introduced to new people, semi new surroundings, and other dogs. It does not appear that she is dog reactive but that is my assessment. I take her to "adoption events" so that she can be around other dogs and new people and work on myself being very upbeat and positive and lots of praises. She has a tolerance level of about 1 1/2 hours at those events. She lets me know because she will snark (not actually bite) anoter dog and then I know she has reached her leve. I have decided to hold off on anymore of those since the attack by Mollie. Both dogs were given melantonin for a couple of days after this. Jade has bonded with Mollie, even if Mollie has not bonded with her and wants to spend as much time as she can with Mollie. We are currently limiting that and limiting their play. I am also video recording to take to the trainers next week so they can see the relationship. She has free reign of the backyard and goes in and out numerous times in the day. I have noticed that she uses this alot when she is nervous or fearful. I allow her to use it as much as she deems necessary. I take her on car rides. They are not her most favorite thing but she does sit up and look out the window directly behind me. I work alot of hours so I don't get to spend as much time as I want with her working on things and maybe that is part of the issue. Teri
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