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shadow

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Posts posted by shadow


  1. Thank you, yes we enrolled in a foundation class which will focus on

    Sit, stays, circle work, crate games, shaping behaviors to increase focus & get the willingness to work (which mine is usually more that happy to work), feet in a box, nose touch, all basics, he knows most, but again at home not in an environment with 10 other dogs

     

    Also we have started CU training - reorienting points, whiplash turn, LAT etc

     

    I think these 2 should be good for foundation, and communication between him & me.

     

    Thanks for all the advice.


  2. Hi,

     

    I have a 9 month old BC boy, we are new to any dog sports, and new to the BC world too.

     

    I have been looking at a lot of agility training classes, reading CU for puppy, watching Susan Garrett DVD's etc...But still an outsider to this world !

     

    Here is my question - what should be the format of a good agility class ? What should I look for ? I looked at pre-agility too, and whats the best format?

     

    Mine is too distracted & hyper when he gets to class, eventually settles down & focuses, but I am not sure its the right format of a class I picked.

     

    And do all BC's bark in an agility environment ?

     

    Thank you in advance !

     


  3. Thank you, I have tried the 10-20 mins, in the yard kind of stuff, and he has been good.

     

    Like Liz said, 18 months to 2 years is what was my original plan was, but somehow, I have some trust in him (due to the 20 min yard sessions) But have that little "what if he is not ready" there in me too!

     

    So I wanted to know in general what is a good timeframe. And yes, adolescence was another reason. His obedience is still not declined, though he hasnt touched 8 months. Not sure if something weird happens to them as they touch that 8 month mark

     

    Like I said I have had a good experience with him so far, and would like to keep it that way. So its better to ask experts & do things than take a step & repent !


  4. Hi,

     

    I am just curious to how can I know my BC pup is ready to stay out without my supervision.

     

    My boy almost 8 month old ,he is very good, he has had no accidents, rings the bell to go out to do his business, has not chewed anything in the house so far (pls dont do anything while I write this, ;)) other than his own bed !!

     

    He is generally a good boy, I leave him on his own when I am at home & he lays in his bed, or just walks around the house.

     

    He gets to play in the am, & walk, then play + train + sometimes walk in the afternoon. Then 5pm onwards he plays, hangs around, trains, dinner & walk then sleep...

     

    How can I try to check if he will be ok when I leave the house if he is not crated. And I have heard some horror stories of carpets being ripped.... so whats the best way I start doing it for example 30 mins in 1 room & then gradually give freedom? or any other advice ?

     

    what are your tried & tested methods? Any suggestions please.

     

    And is 8 months too early ?

     

    Shreds

     

     


  5. It is pretty rude, in my opinion, to edit out parts of an original post asking for help after people have commented on it. It seems like perhaps you don't like the answers you're getting so you are changing the post to hide something. At least make a note in the original post to let people know you've edited its content.

     

    I added it back in - I didnt realize I was being rude ! apologies !!


  6. Agreed.

     

    Alishaa,

    We all answered your original post in good faith. Because you have edited it, it now looks like a bunch of us went of on a tangent all on our own. Doing that sort of thing is a sure way to get people to stop responding to your questions.

     

    J.

     

    I am sorry, in no way did I want to be disrespectful to anyone, or rude, the intention of removing that was the conversation was becoming non-productive. Julie, I respect your advice and the others advice, I did add it back in so if people read the post it does not sound tangent, I did write it as I previously had it written with any personal opinion of the trainer.

     

    As I say again the intention was only to get advice on what I could do better. And not hurt anyone or be non-productive.


  7. Hi,

     

    So we have a 5.5 month old BC male puppy. We got him when he was 3 months old, its been not too long. He trains great, as in tricks, commands etc, BUt he has a mind of his own. He was doing great, until last week, he has sexually matured and his neutering is scheduled for right when he turns 6 months. But recently he has developed few issues that have me concerned

     

    • He used to walk on a loose leash until last week, till I don’t know what happened this week that he has just forgotten it all. since he has seen the rabbits in the neighborhood... Loose leash walking is non-existent.

     

    • He didn’t want to chase cars or get hyper when he saw cars, but we took him herding this weekend and that has changed his attitude towards a moving car.

     

    • He does great in a controlled environment with his commands (like home, training center etc), but the minute we are out on a walk or dog park, yes he will sit on command, but he is not focused on me. Its almost that I don’t exist in the outside world. Once we just left him at the dog park and walked away and he didn’t care, he kept getting a ball giving it to someone else to throw.

     

     

    I have tried to go back to teaching him on a loose leash, tried to calm him, nothing has worked. I have used a squirt bottle to get his attention and get him to stop that does work for that very second, but I don’t want to over-use it.

     

    Please HELP and suggest what I may do, I have a "dog behaviorist" here in the city but he charges $350 and with his neutering etc and my husband loosing his job, I cant afford it at present !

     

    Thank you in advance !!

     

    Eventually got the brains & removed the whole herding section off, didnt know that is what everyone would start focusing on. Learnt a lesson !!

     

    But thank you for those who actually gave me advice on the real situation, got CU & have already started reading it !!


  8. I'm so confused. If you didn't want a prong collar used on your dog why did you buy one?

     

    Coz a renowned person in their field got the collar put it on my dog & said thats the way it was done, explained that its better than his normal nylon collar, and to trust them as they knew what they were doing.

     

    I was like a person who knows nothing about a computer & goes to best buy to get one, you trust what the person is telling you & if the person is the best sales person and is telling you thats the best thing & saying why its safe, you wont doubt it.

     

    Till you go home & do your research only to find out what the product is. Thats what happened to me, I just didnt know any better ! No knowledge about the different collars, etc.


  9. For clarification for members...

    In no way was this post supposed to be about herding or the trainer....

     

    It was primarily for me to understand what I can do to better my puppy's experience & improve my relationship with him.

    In no way I intend to bash anyone or their methods, everyone has their own way of doing things. I only needed advice on what I could do better & get reassurance on what I was doing was right !!!

     

    Thank you, and I apologize if I may have hurt anyone with anything said !

     

    Eventually got the brains & removed the whole herding section off, didnt know that is what everyone would start focusing on. Learnt a lesson !!

     

    But thank you for those who actually gave me advice on the real situation, got CU & have already started reading it !!


  10. For clarification for members...

    In no way was this post supposed to be about herding or the trainer....

     

    It was primarily for me to understand what I can do to better my puppy's experience & improve my relationship with him.

    In no way I intend to bash anyone or their methods, everyone has their own way of doing things. I only needed advice on what I could do better & get reassurance on what I was doing was right !!!

     

    Thank you, and I apologize if I may have hurt anyone with anything said !


  11. Any "trainer" starting a youngster in a prong collar is no real trainer. Stay very far away. I will take a pup to sheep at his age, but only to see what they do. They are much too young to take a lot of training pressure, and really any sort of training on stock involves pressure on the pup. If you had a decent trainer and well broke sheep and the pup could just go around the sheep some and change directions on the basis of the human's body pressure, that would be okay, but that doesn't sound at all like your situation. If your only choice is a substandard trainer, then waiting certainly won't harm him. Giving him bad experiences at a young age could, however, turn him off work completely.

     

    That said, as trainers, we have to set boundaries on what is acceptable with respect to herding training, because training a young dog does involve a certain amount of stress and distress on stock. So, although the trainer sounds like an idiot, there is some truth in the statement that herding isn't a recreational activity--in that there needs to be some control and correct work from the dog so that the sheep (or other livestock) are not simply being used as "dog toys."

     

    That may seem obvious, but I've actually had folks come out for lessons who pretty much equated a trip for lessons to going to the dog park. That is, they looked at it as just another thing their dog could do to burn off steam. I have no wish to work with those sorts of people/dogs because to me they are approaching it as fun and games and not something serious. With most other fun and games, nothing else has the potential to be harmed, but with stockwork, there are the livestock to consider, and they need to be treated with the respect due to sentient beings who don't have a real say in how they're being used. So although I do encourage people to try their dogs on stock and to train them if they so desire, I don't particularly want to work with people/dogs whose attitude is that it's all about the fun. Because it's not necessarily fun for the livestock. (Note: I'm not saying that this is your attitude, but it may well be what the trainer was trying to convey. Hard to believe that they would show sense in that regard when they clearly have no real sense about how to properly start a puppy, but I guess wonders never cease.)

    [ETA: I see that Vicki stated the above much more succinctly while I was writing this missive....]

     

    As for neutering, I'd wait, unless you have a compelling reason to neuter early (i.e., you must use doggy daycare). It might be helpful to have a good discussion with your vet regarding the pros and cons and your concerns about some of the things your pup is doing. I don't think early neuter will change things like marking behavior, but I would want to know about prolonged erections (though a neutered male can still have an erection, so it might not make a difference in that regard either).

     

    As for everything else, you just need to go back to the basics. As others have said, his hormones are starting to flow and he's reaching his adolescent period. He will test you, so you just need to be prepared and be willing to back up and start over when he seems to forget his previous training.

     

    J.

     

    He was in a small pen with goats and not cow !


  12. Let's tap the brakes here for a minute, please. I am not going to say anything negative about the OP or her dog but she has COMPLETELY misrepresented the situation with the trainer. In reading this post, I just realized who she is and I was there last weekend and witnessed the ENTIRE session.

     

    First of all, the dog was in a small round pen with GOATS not cows. There are no cows on the entire place, only sheep and goats. I can promise you nobody whacked the dog with a rake, jerked on it or otherwise abused it. He was allowed to move around the stock, change directions etc as you would expect when exposing a young dog for the first time. That is it. I am shocked that she would come on here and say otherwise. For God's sake, nobody was crying.

     

    I am a novice handler with a beginning dog (recipe for disaster, right?). I have been training with this person every week for 9 months and she is a kind, patient person and amazing trainer. She was recommended to me by a well known "big hat" because of her ability to start dogs and to coach and mentor novice handlers. She has amazing dogs who are well behaved and respectful both on and off stock. She successfully trials at a high level; she is a thoughtful and careful breeder. She treats her clients like we are her family.

     

    I'll stop there but IMO border collies aren't suitable for everybody and working stock really isn't a recreational activity (its not herding ball class--whatever the hell that is). We don't use clickers and nobody gets a snausage for a pretty outrun. Sorry if that hurts anybody's feelings.

     

    Well thank you for your opinion... I respect it, and am always open to see if I didnt see the situation the way it is, BUT I didnt expect the prong collar, I didnt see why my dog needed to be hit & I didnt see why my dog shut down in the second round... I never said he was around cow, some people assumed & I didnt get a chance to respond to that. Also I didnt expect someone to tell me Oh thats a typical "ABC breeder" dog attitude I see.

     

    Again thank you, I respect it, I dont ever judge & have not right to judge how anyone does what they do. But for it to happen to my dog, without my approval is not what I signed up for.


  13. Any "trainer" starting a youngster in a prong collar is no real trainer. Stay very far away. I will take a pup to sheep at his age, but only to see what they do. They are much too young to take a lot of training pressure, and really any sort of training on stock involves pressure on the pup. If you had a decent trainer and well broke sheep and the pup could just go around the sheep some and change directions on the basis of the human's body pressure, that would be okay, but that doesn't sound at all like your situation. If your only choice is a substandard trainer, then waiting certainly won't harm him. Giving him bad experiences at a young age could, however, turn him off work completely.

     

    That said, as trainers, we have to set boundaries on what is acceptable with respect to herding training, because training a young dog does involve a certain amount of stress and distress on stock. So, although the trainer sounds like an idiot, there is some truth in the statement that herding isn't a recreational activity--in that there needs to be some control and correct work from the dog so that the sheep (or other livestock) are not simply being used as "dog toys."

     

    That may seem obvious, but I've actually had folks come out for lessons who pretty much equated a trip for lessons to going to the dog park. That is, they looked at it as just another thing their dog could do to burn off steam. I have no wish to work with those sorts of people/dogs because to me they are approaching it as fun and games and not something serious. With most other fun and games, nothing else has the potential to be harmed, but with stockwork, there are the livestock to consider, and they need to be treated with the respect due to sentient beings who don't have a real say in how they're being used. So although I do encourage people to try their dogs on stock and to train them if they so desire, I don't particularly want to work with people/dogs whose attitude is that it's all about the fun. Because it's not necessarily fun for the livestock. (Note: I'm not saying that this is your attitude, but it may well be what the trainer was trying to convey. Hard to believe that they would show sense in that regard when they clearly have no real sense about how to properly start a puppy, but I guess wonders never cease.)

    [ETA: I see that Vicki stated the above much more succinctly while I was writing this missive....]

     

    As for neutering, I'd wait, unless you have a compelling reason to neuter early (i.e., you must use doggy daycare). It might be helpful to have a good discussion with your vet regarding the pros and cons and your concerns about some of the things your pup is doing. I don't think early neuter will change things like marking behavior, but I would want to know about prolonged erections (though a neutered male can still have an erection, so it might not make a difference in that regard either).

     

    As for everything else, you just need to go back to the basics. As others have said, his hormones are starting to flow and he's reaching his adolescent period. He will test you, so you just need to be prepared and be willing to back up and start over when he seems to forget his previous training.

     

    J.

     

    Thank YOu Julie, for explaining !!


  14. You certainly have the right to own a border collie...even if it is your second dog.

     

    He sounds like a very normal, unfocused 5 month old... I always think my puppies are trained so well...and than at 6 months they become hellions...And i have 11 border collies!

     

    Cynthia

     

    Thank you means a lot coming from you .... Can I ask, do the herding people just generally have an attitude issue in the border collie world ?

    She said Herding was no recreational activity... To me it kinda is for the puppy!


  15. I would also consider waiting to neuter him as he is not mature yet by any means.........there is no "magic" date or age to neuter a puppy........where are you located? People here might be able to help you better if they knew where you are located.

     

    I am located in Dallas, TX. He has been marking outside on his walks quite a bit & also mounts his bed. A scary thing happened the other day while he was mounting & had a prolonged erection. So I am not sure if I should wait, also no day care will take him


  16. A couple of things may be happening all at once:

    He is approaching his terrible teenage years - when all pups begin to test the boundaries.

     

    You are no longer the center of his universe so you will have to work harder to keep his focus. He is beginning to discover that there is a wonderful and interesting world out there - and that is normal.

     

    His issues are common for a BC and/or a young dog. I don't think you need a dog behaviorist.

     

    First, I would NEVER take him back to that trainer. I don't understand how that "trainer" (I use that term loosely) can keep clients. Personally, I would wait several months before trying him again on sheep to try and help that traumatic experience recede from his mind. And use a different trainer!! I will be interested to hear the advice from experienced handlers.

     

    You have given him a good foundation of training, but now you will have to re-train since his teenage brain has forgotten his good manners -- and this is normal.

     

    Go back to the basics. Train in an environment with NO distractions (in the house?). Then gradually add in distractions. Bringing him to a dog park and expecting him to listen to you is not going to happen because you have added in wayyy too many distractions that he can't control his responses - remember, he is still a puppy. After working him in the house, the next step might be working him out in your yard where there are fewer distractions? and he is familiar with the yard. If he starts losing focus again, bring him back into a less distracting environment where he is under threshold and ask him for a few familiar behaviors and reward him to reconnect with him.

     

    A squirt bottle will do nothing more than distract him momentarily (as you have discovered) and may eventually end up aggravating him. Distract him (but not with a squirt bottle), and when he looks at you, ask him for a behavior that you know he will do and treat him for it. I will distract with a slight tug on his collar or a little touch on his hind end or shoulder. If he can not perform that behavior and refocuses on the distraction, he may be over threshold and you will need to move him farther away. Once you distract, remember you MUST let your dog know what is an acceptable behavior, don't just let him hang out there. Help him make the right choice.

     

    Jovi

     

    Thanks Jovi, I will try all of that. I really appreciate the advice. Do you think after he is neutered him being distracted might reduce? Also any suggestion on how I can handle the rabbit situation ? The rabbit comes in the yard & is around his toys, so when this guy goes out and sniffs that the rabbit was there, he is all charged up to just find the rabbit on his walk at night.


  17. You do not need a behaviorist-you have a very normal 5 month old puppy!

     

    Where ever you took him to 'herd', do not ever go back again.

     

    Do not use a water bottle to 'get his attention.' Why would he want to pay attention to you when you just squirted him?

     

    All of the 'issues' you listed are normal for a pup his age and they will change in time as you continue to train. It sounds like you were off to a great start, just go back to what you were doing (loose leash training, etc). Have patience, he is still so young and you can't expect perfection out of a dog his age. Continue training, stay positive and try not to get overwhelmed or over think the little things.

     

    I would recommend as others will, get the Control Unleashed puppy book. Look for a good dog club/training center and enroll in a puppy class.

     

    THANK YOU, I guess I needed some guidance & assurance that what we were doing was the right thing. Someone suggested a choke chain, someone says oh this breed is so smart you gotta break him in this age. Then people like the stupid trainer who has 17 border collies looked at me and almost said I had no business getting a BC if this was my second dog ever.... I just dont want this puppy ruined, he is a great guy!!


  18. He's a five and half month old puppy!!! He's just being a puppy, and for goodness sake, please don't take him back to the herding "trainer".

     

    Do you have him in puppy classes that uses positive training methods?

     

     

    I know he is just being a puppy, but then some people confuse me saying he has no respect for us, he does not know who is the pack leader etc... all this all of a sudden feels very overwhelming !

     

    Yes he is awesome in his obedience classes, is taking his cgc this weekend, learns new tricks and has so much fun learning all that, he learnt high five in like 10-15 mins


  19. Hi,

     

    So we have a 5.5 month old BC male puppy. We got him when he was 3 months old, its been not too long. He trains great, as in tricks, commands etc, BUt he has a mind of his own. He was doing great, until last week, he has sexually matured and his neutering is scheduled for right when he turns 6 months. But recently he has developed few issues that have me concerned

     

    • He used to walk on a loose leash until last week, till I don’t know what happened this week that he has just forgotten it all. since he has seen the rabbits in the neighborhood... Loose leash walking is non-existent.

     

    • He didn’t want to chase cars or get hyper when he saw cars, but we took him herding this weekend and that has changed his attitude towards a moving car. At training at prong collar was put on him, by the trainer & was not an all pleasant experience. - This was written previously which was edited - "The herding trainer was not good, and he didn’t have a good experience.She put him on a prong collar, he cried, she smacked him with a rake - no he wasnt harming the cattle - she just has issues with the breeder we got him from"

     

    • He does great in a controlled environment with his commands (like home, training center etc), but the minute we are out on a walk or dog park, yes he will sit on command, but he is not focused on me. Its almost that I don’t exist in the outside world. Once we just left him at the dog park and walked away and he didn’t care, he kept getting a ball giving it to someone else to throw.

     

     

    I have tried to go back to teaching him on a loose leash, tried to calm him, nothing has worked. I have used a squirt bottle to get his attention and get him to stop that does work for that very second, but I don’t want to over-use it.

     

    Please HELP and suggest what I may do, I have a "dog behaviorist" here in the city but he charges $350

     

    Thank you in advance !!

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