Foggy

So I'm new to this sport (but not new to heat exhaustion-my own experience or veterinary medicine-I am a vet). I can't imagine denying a dog water when they need it.... I have a hard time in the summer heat with my dog (and it rarely hits 80 here) because he doesn't want to stop for water. I have to make sure he rests, drinks and gets cool. If he told me he had to drink and cool off, I'd be sure that he got the chance..... If a dog is quitting and running to the water when they shouldn't, it seems there are bigger holes in your training that you need to worry about..... To the OP, good for you for standing up for the dog.... People that hold their dogs under water for correction? I don't know what to say..... I have spent many years involved with competition horses and I guess it's the same in the dog world....Some people just have no business with animals.....

Thanks for the response. I think you hit the nail on the head, he's "high on self gratification". It was actually something that my friend said while watching him the other day...He said "he gets his kicks out of it". I'm somewhat saddened that it has come to this....but I appreciate your honesty! My current trainer has not said it is hopeless, she still thinks she can get through to him..... I however wonder if it's gonna happen..... My original trainer never made a big deal out of it. It should have been stopped from the start. Unfortunately, I didn't have the experience and trusted we were on the right path. I've learned a lot since then and at least know what to look for, even if I'm not sure how exactly to get there.... He had also learned to wear the sheep to great excess, the original trainers dogs work this way and and it wasn't until I found a different trainer that I knew how bad that was. That, we were able to get rid of, but the drive bys persist..... the good news is I'm now working with someone who has had success on a national level with multiple dogs, so I think we can get the youngster started on the right path..... Your comments on timing are spot on, my timing with the dogs has not been stellar.....I'm a horse trainer, so I understand the importance....and the consequences of poor timing.... It was actually my preference that the original trainer work the dog so he could get a correct start, but she felt we were doing OK...lesson learned.... I knew it too... It became very clear over time.... I think I could have done better if we'd known what behaviours we were trying to avoid.... So thanks for your comments.... I'm inclined to wait for the little guy to be ready....

I have a 4 YO BC who has been herding for a year (one or two times per week). We are both new to the sport and unfortunately we had a bad start and he developed a few bad habits. We found some good help and he has improved, but I'm wondering if he'll ever really be any good. I'd like to compete, but am not sure he's ever going to be the dog to do it. I'm OK with that, it's for his enjoyment as well and I do have a promising young dog to start soon. But I'd like to get the most out of the older dog as well.... His biggest problem now is he likes to do drive bys on the sheep. He'll head out, then cut in buzz the sheep and run past, then come back around to the top. I've been trying to slow him down and push him out. We work on downs in the outrun so I can redirect. I stay near the sheep to push him out. But as soon as I try to give him more room, he comes back in.... Then it's back to square one.... We've been at this a while and I think I need a new approach..... At home he is very well behaved, very submissive and willing to listen (all I have to do is look at him and he gets submissive and wants to please), but on sheep, he's a different dog..he thinks he's top dog and wants to do it his way... Any suggestions?