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bc soul sista

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Posts posted by bc soul sista

  1. I had kind of a similar problem with my dog when I bought him...I think alot of it is just developing a relationship with the dog and "figuring eachother out" kinda stuff..


    I was lucky to have a dog who tried his heart out for me, but still had to learn to deal with my...ugh..relative "handicap" compared to his previous owner ;) Me being a novice n all also...


    I would second staying in close contact with who you bought him from, they know the dog best, will probably know where the dogs weaknesses are and can help you!!


    I do alot of fun short sessions with my guy, always keeping him on his feet and moving!!! I know it's hard being a novice, you want to stop the dog alot so you can THINK :D But I'm starting to learn the "flow" of just working my dog!! Remember this is supposed to be FUN!!! And I try and go out there with that attitude with my young guy!!!


    He has taught me so much already!!!! :) :) :)

  2. I attending one of Marc's clinics.....and would never go back NOR recommend him to anyone else. He put a young dog first starting on sheep(he was about 11 months old) on a long line, took a cattle paddle...and walked around a small round pen with the youngster...he was putting constant pressure on the pup trying to get him to "bend off" the sheep...and whenever the pups gait sped up even the slightest from a slow trot he'de jerk on the long line to get him to stop or slow down...the pup eventually went to a corner of the round pen and sunk into a puddle, not wanting to work...Of course this Marc guy dragged him out by the long line and insisted he still work. The pup did a little, but was clearly not interested or keen on the sheep anymore....it was hard to watch. Especially when I have watched such amazing trainers/handlers take that FIRE in a young dog and mold it through proper training to be an awesome partner.


    I happened to know the person slightly whose pup this was and have followed him through his trial career...he continues to have a terrible tension/grip problem where everything just seems to explode, he cant seem to take the pressure. The handler, using Marc's methods of extreme control may or may not contribute to this dogs problem...there seems to be VERY little release of pressure, or letting the dog enjoy and be keen about it's work( of course not allowing mistreatment of the stock)...


    I know now after going to some awesome trainers/handlers how important it is to understand the RELEASE of pressure...understanding that seems to be more important than the application. AND how important it is for the dog, especiially the young one, to be guided and enjoy there work.

  3. I, like Northof49, teach a kick back stand...I don't want ANY forward movement when asking for and teaching a stand, this comes in handy later on for teaching the stand-stay, moving stand, signals, etc.


    I taught it to my pup right away along with the sit and lie down..makes for a fun game :) I tauhgt it to him like this..got him all jazzed letting him know we were going to "work", did some warm up stuff, I got a really yummy stick of string cheese, something he could nibble on..had him sit, then I knelt down next to his side. While he niibled the treat a little I gently touched under his flank a little, or tickled it to get him to KICK back his back legs into a stand(not moving his front end at all) Immedietly rewarded with a "yes" and gave him the rest of the treat.....repeat..


    I also taught him to "back up" which will help later with correcting the stand moving forward or signals....


    I would just kept working on his "sits".. and "stands" kneeling down next to his side..he caught on right away and I barely had to touch his flank and he was popping back into a nice stand...once he was really catching on I'de make a FUN game that we still use of playing and incormporating his "sit", "lay down" and "stand"....if he ever has any forward movement I would have him "back up" :)

  4. Had an AWESOME weekend for my boy and I at the NSHG club trial!!! Huge accomplishment for us!!!


    We qualified Saturday in Open A..and "extra" leg for us....beautiful work, score of 198 and a first place!!!


    Then Sunday, we turned in a SMOKING run!!! Worked together awesome!!! turned out a score of 199 1/2...1/2 a 1/2 point away from a perfect score and got High in Trial!!! Our first EVER together!!! Also got highest scoring dog with a herding title award!!!


    I've been tweaking a few things the past month with his fronts, finishes and some of the details of his heeling, so I was a little concerned how that was going to come together competing at this weekend, since I've been putting extra pressure on him lately!!! Didn't phase him a bit and he was just so great!!! Good boy :)So proud of him, we have such a special relationship and he worked his heart out for me!!!


    The biggest compliments I got though, is from people saying how neat it was to watch us together, and how excited and happy my dog is when he's in the ring with me!!! I always play with him in between excercises and competing with me is just one giant GAME he gets to play with mom :)

  5. I don't think ANYONE on here is a "Correction based" trainer...meaning they use corrections mainly to teach behaviors...


    Again, the way I train my dogs is %98 positive and I should not be labelled because I choose to use a correction here and again.


    The people who don't agree with using corrections I believe don't understand what a correction REALLY is...as Julie stated, it's NOT a punishment. It's information to the dog, that what they are doing is in-correct. Whenever I give any kind of correction, it's immedietly followed by showing the dog what I DO want. It gives the dog more information and since I've taught my dog what each correction means, it gives them a chance to fix things and be succesful.


    Corrections are a "natural" part of the animal and therefore dog world. It's part of THERE language. Now I know RB classicly says, "well i'm not a dog so I won't communicate like a dog"...but I feel that's being un-fair to the dog. Why wouldn't you incorporate a language they understand into training??


    My opinion is backed up by the fact that stockwork is one of the most natural things you can do with your dog. And it involved corrections. Some of the best relationships I've seen, and most amazing work hands down(above any sports) would be to see the top handlers run there dogs. Surely there relationship is not damaged by the fact that they use corrections in life and in training there dogs...


    And on the notion that you are somehow a MORE skilled trainer because you do not use corrections...well, someone else said it best..."The proof is in the pudding". Anybody can claim to be a trainer, and it's nothing special to be able to train Pet Behaviors with positive methods. If you think your methods are so awesome, prove it. All we can go by on these forums is what people SAY, people need to make there own minds about who they think is full of shit or not. And whether ther methods actually work.


    I see competitions as a way for trainers to SHOW that what they say has some meaning, otherwise people just take your word for it that what you're saying works. Obedience trials, in my opinion, are the ultimate test of your RELATIONSHIP with your dog. There is no treats, barely any talking...no reinforcers other than yourself and your dogs desire to work for you. In order to get a high score and excel your dog needs to heel well, focus on you, not pay attention to distractions, stay with there handler out of site, and the list goes on and on....I don't think it's any coincidence that the people who are "positive only" trainers have never set foot in an obedience ring.


    Again, "positive only" people that I know tend to control the environment that there dogs are in, so that they are succesful. That's why I don't usually see those type of trainers ever leave the Rally ring. And that's FINE..I totally encourage people to get out and have fun with there dogs no matter what. But when you say that your methods of training work better, and give you a better relationship with your dog, etc....then prove it. I have YET to meet a "positive only" dog trainer who has....and I don't believe that to be a coincidence.





  6. That's great Rushdoggie...I'm really glad you've achieved what you wanted with your dogs!! Great that you foster also!! It's easy to get heated in the discussions but anybody who is working with there dogs and achieving that relationship I applaud :) Thanks for sharing, I really am curious about your perspective.


    I think my views come mostly from rooting my philosophy in stockwork...I love it most over any activity with my dog. It's so natural and the act of completing tasks together with my dog, well it's just awesome!! I do competitive obedience with my one bc because we just have a cool reltionship and he LOVES to do something special with just me....but I mostly spend my time working sheep. This, to me, is very "natural" to the dog...the whole act of stock work, person..dog..working together...for countless years, so peaceful. And in stockwork there is no such thing as doing so with NO CORRECTION, whether it comes from the sheep or the handler...these dogs with such heart have can take amountain of pressure and still come back wanting more. So to say that corrections or not right or somehow can damage a relationship with your dog, would mean that I couldn't believe in what I was doing...


    And like I said, from my experiences, and observations in life...that's just what makes sense to me...I couldn't imagine not dicsiplining my kids...or communicating to them in some way that what they are doing isn't ok?? That doesn't DEFINE me as a person..or as a trainer for choosing to correct my dogs...that doesn't or shouldnt erase the 99% of other positive things I do to motivate my dogs, encourage my kids, etc..


    I can actually appreciate the people I know who take the time and energy to really teach dogs using "positive only" training....I just don't think it's the best way, and that's where we disagree :)

  7. I apologize Rushdoggie if I offended you or ruffled your feather, i am feeling the same way...sigh, such is the nature of dogs and training, etc. People get all emotional...


    I would LOVE to attend a Denise seminar, I'm always eager to learn other awesome trainers perspectives, and add more tools to my "bag o tricksA" when training!!! Like I said though, almost all of what I saw her doing in her videos is similar to how I and others raise and train...like I said, 98% motivational..building drive, etc.


    I'm trying to tell you, without offending you, that what you were doing with your dog with the fronts IS WHAT I was doing with mine!! I don't use a clicker but a verbal marker "yes" and reward when he gets it right, especially for precision type training such has fronts and finished, crooked sits, and minor heeling issues I'm working on..OR..learning new behaviors. So, since I was trying to tweak the fronts I was using a verbal marker and treat when he got it right....he knew he wasn't right by me not saying anything because he would keep fixing himself. But the way the chain of behaviors played out he still wasn't getting that I needed him to get it right, the first shot. That it wasn't ok for him to come in, fix himself, etc..he needed a verbal marker at the exact right moment telling him.."nope" not it...would HELP him get it right...and repeat...ONLY getting the high value reward when he got it right the first shot....


    Yes it was me who posted my friend giving collar pops on a different post....it was to show that the dog was not dying and surely wasn't damaged mentally from having a tug on the collar...of course you know nothing about the history or this young dog or how she chooses to train 995 of the the other things she is teaching, but she is "Labeled" as a correction based trainer because she gives a few collar pops?? That doesn't even begin to describe how she trains...and fyi- the dog is off the prong and pops and coming along quite awesomely...


    I choose to weed out the good trainer vs the bad based on the succes they have, with AAALLL the joe shmoes out there saying there dog traianers and trying to make a buck or what not these days....measures of success to me is the best way to tell who's credible and who's not. That's just how I choose to do it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to teach good manner, puppy classes, etc. But I'm looking for a more advanced trainer so naturally I will look at measures of success. And measures of success, to me, means attaining the highest level in that sport. For obedience, that would be an OTCH...and other than Denise and I'm sure a select few others.....that's it for trainers claiming to impose no correction, and still being succesful in the competitve obedience world.


    And like I said, it simply doesn't exist with herding!!!


    Trainers like Susane Garrett train for agility and I can UNDERSTAND why there is little to no correction in agility....completely.


    The thing I DON'T understand about "positive only" trainers is...why?? I'm directing this to Rushdoggie....is it to prove a point, do you really think the dog is being harmed by being told or shown that it is wrong?? Would love some insight..

  8. Rushdoggie, the "fix" that Denise had you do for your dogs fronts...was exactly what I was doing originally that didn't work for my dog and me..there was not enough information for him to understand that he was not doing what I needed him to do....


    And this is what is dangerous about trainers who refuse to look at anything other than there own "training philosphy", the best trainers I know are very creative, great at reading dogs, helping people and recognize that all dogs/people are individuals and therefore need different methods,fixes, etc...I don't agree with either extremes or people trying to make statements like "I will never train with a correction"...well sometimes one is needed...OR the opposite end.."I will not train a dog with treats"....both are close-minded views



    I read that blog post of hers and although I think she is a talented trainer I would have to respectfully disagree what I think she trying to say. I don't believe more succesful obedience competitors don't use "postive only" methods because they aren't aware of them..or because they are a new "fad" or are un-afraid of change, etc....they don't use "positive only" dog training because they aren't as effective in training for that sport, period. I'm not saying that the right trainer and dog can't make it happen, but they are few and far between. We have a training facility not far from me that boasts they are a "positive only" dog training school, they don't implore ANY kind of corrections, verbal, etc...and NONE of the instructors there or any of the students that train there have gotten past a UD in obedience trials...out of the hundreds or so of people going through there doors, that's it. Not even close to obtaining the highest level of excellence in that given sport. Coincidence??


    Now the place I train at ( and no we are FAR from a "correction based" training facility, but we do occasionaly use corrections)...have record amount of succesful students(we had 10 people compete at the National Obedience Invitational since they were ranked highest in there breed), multiple OTCH's, HIT's, HC'd, perfect 200's not to mention raving awesome reviews from pet people who are happy, working with there pets and get great results. Coincidence??


    So it's easy to see why I think the way I do I guess, based on my experiences. Also, as someone who competes in USBCHA trials and has seen some of the most beatiful examples of human/dog partnership I have ever witnessed(and herding has corrections in it)...I have come to the conclusion that dogs do respond best to a language they best understand, one that's rooted in there own make-up. Cause and effect, pressure release, reward and YES...some form of correction....

  9. Mumdog I do have two kids...and they get the same kind of practical principles of life applied...there are rewards and positive things in life for doing the right thing and being a good person, just as there are consequences for making bad decisions, I would feel I would be doing a GREAT dis-service to my children by not teaching them these simple things...


    I can't remember reading a single parenting book(and I read MANY as I was a very young mom) that didn't say you shouldn't discipline your children and I feel the same way about my dogs. I expect alot and they give alot...there are of course ALOT more severe consequences for things I consider to be a "safety issue"..like holding hands while crossing the treat for my kids...and coming when called for my dogs, etc. I don't mess around there...I'm not going to play some game where I allow my dog to "look" at something it wants and choose to come to me when it wants to...ugh ugh...not happening here..


    I would also like to point out about using a correction...I do NOT believe it is fair to correct or discipline UNLESS they understand what it is for. This I believe is CRUEL, period. This is where good training comes in and communicating what you expect to your dog..or kid or whatever...I might of brought the kid thing to into it but I REALLY feel strongly about it so..... :D

  10. Thanks for replying to my post Rushdoggie..I enjoy your insightful posts here on the boards and am interested in your perspectives on training...


    I think we agree on more than it may seem...my training, especially for compeition involves almost %98 precent motivational training(very similar to Denise actually)! Building drive and a relationship with your dog..one of the things I VERY much enjoy about compeitive obedience is it is almost entirley about your relationship with that dog, and working together as a team!!! The dog has to WANT to do it!! And that is NOT built by excessive or un-fair corrections!! I am JUST as disgusted as the next person watching a dog be jerked around, or bullied into behaving. I however, do feel, that at SOME POINT in training, there needs to be communication to the dog that what there doing isn't right, however you choose to train it.


    For instance, I've been showing by bc for a few months now...the few points we are getting off are due to slightly crooked fronts and finishes. It was not from my dogs lack of trying, rather my fault for being afraid to communicate to him that what he was doing wasn't correct. I was so afraid it would hurt his enthusiasm to put in any kind of negative correction!!! He would come into front, he would sit a little off...I would tell him to "fix it"...he would and I would reward!!! He would do this over and over...thinking he was doing it right by fixing it on the second or third try, because I hadn't giving him the info that the way he was doing it wasn't right. We needed a strait front on the first shot!! I wasn't even giving him a chance to get it right!!! So...i took the plunge, came up with an idea...when he comes in and sits crooked..I give him a verbal correction "ah ah"...to let him know that wasn't quite right..I give him a stand command, have him back up a few steps and try again, if he is crooked..I repeat. When he gets it right I give him HUGE verbal praise and we start all over. If he gets the front right the first shot..THEN he gets a HUGE party of treats, praise and some times gets to TUG!!! Now that he is starting to understand what I want...we are progressing GREATLY :)...so this is just an example..



    I am aware of who Denise is and she is a VERY great trainer...awesome working Tervs...but I don't think I would go as far to say she is a "positive only" trainer...She is HUGE on creating drive to work for the handler, motivation, motivation, motivation!!! Same techniques alot of us use to create drive in dogs.. and she's got some really neat ideas!!! She does put ALOT of pressure on her dogs and teaches them to work through it...she even says about her young dog in her blog "as she grows more confident and sophisticated I will work harder to cause her to fail, followed by success" and gives examples of purposefuly bumping her into people during heeling or other examples..of trying to get her dog to make a mistake so they can work through it and build confidence.......so I wouldn't say she is "positive only"...


    Her one quote I LOVE and I agree with %100..."I’m working to build a dog who chooses to pay attention because work is interesting and challenging rather than a dog who pays attention because she’s afraid of the consequences of looking away."

  11. I personaly think that the idea trying to raise a dog free of any kind of consequence just doesn't make sense...that's not the natural order of life, especially for animals...period. Some of the first lessons a pup gets are corrections from it's mother. There are natural positive and negative effects of life as there are consequences for ones wrong actions. I believe as trainers the best things we can do for our dogs are to make things as CLEAR as possible to the dog, and I find this to be most effective with simple positive and negative effects. I've learned a GREAT deal from some wonderful sheepdog trainer/handlers the effectiveness of pressure and release...making the wrong things hard and the right things easy. I believe this to be natural language to animals and therefore dogs.....I apply it in my training for compeitive obedience and have been very succesful. I never use more correction than is necessary to communicate to my dog what I want...


    In my experiences people who attempt to train with "positive methods only"....tend to try and control there environment very much. If they cannot get the dog to perform what is required without any kind of consequence...they just decrease the distration or environmental stimuli(a big resean I believe why I hdon't see any well positive only trainers go past rally)..or make excuses for why the dog can't do it...the dog has "fears" or "anxieties"...when I would like to question there training methods and the way these dogs are raised. If I as a dog had to be trained simple concepts with 50 steps and me trying to constantly figure oout what my owner wants/expects of me I would be anxious to. Dogs need leadership...period. And I don't believe alot of "positive only" dog trainers provide that...they create chaos in a dogs mind in my opinion.


    Now I completely agree with what Pam says...when training behaviors or when dogs are in the learning process "shaping" can be great, luring..you want the dog to want to learn and help them be succesful!!! But at SOME POINT you are going to have to back things up. You're going to need to communicate to your dog that what they are doing is not right...that's what a correction is, you are communicating to a dog that what they are doing isn't ok...TRY AGAIN!! Whether that be a verbal marker, a tap, a collar pop or whatever..


    I've trained my dogs from a young age..what a correction means...they don't sulk they don't get there "feelings hurt"..they know what it means, and try again..


    For instance...if I'm training a young dog to stay..I use baby steps, treats..start with standing to the side of the dog..stay for a few seconds, treat and release. Then in front of the dog..treat and release..if they get up and move "ugh ugh" verbal mark..and physicly put the dog back where he was sitting..try again....VVVEERRRYY simple. I increase distrations...and if the dog breaks again..same thing.


    Now I have seen a postitive only dog trainer...do similar shaping to get the sit..BUT if the dog gets up, they don't say anything and don't put the dog back where you put it..just have it sit and treat again...and decrease the level of difficulty, going back a few steps in training...and painstakingly try and work there way back up. The dog seems confused and is not being succesful. Now I know a "positive only " trainer would say they would just decrease the distration level, back up to the level of where the dog was succesful and just try and work there way back up....but in my experience this never ends up working with a high high level of distractions. The dog at some point must have a consequence or communicated to him that breaking the stay is not ok....it seems alot of steps, with not as great of results and confusion to the dog, for WHAT?! So the dog doesn't have to experience an ounce of discomfort from any kind of negative consequence??? Life doesn't work like that...


    Not to get off subject but it's the same kind of thinking for parents who want to be there children's "FREINDS" and not there parents...who are afraid of providing any leadership or discomfort into there child's life. But they are doing there child a great dis-service....because life is not that way.

  12. I'm sure many others on this board will have much knowledgable advice to give....but to keep it basic...spay the female, nueter your male and emjoy them as loving pets/partners in learning about the awesomeness that working stock with your dogs. There are TO MANY people making puppies out there and it doesn't sound like you have the experience or knowledge base to know whether these two dogs have much talent on stock at all.


    Just because you bought your male from an ABCA breeder does not mean the dog has talent on stock and should be bred...and chances are if this female an AKC breeder, who breeds mostly for conformation, she has little to no natural talent and should definetly not be bred!!


    There really is no point to registering with the AKC un-less you wanted to run your dogs in AKC trials...or register puppies..


    I would say if you were absolutely SET on breeding this female, train her up and put her through what needs to be done to get Registered on Merit with the ABCA...only then should you consider it.


    I have been running dogs in trials for a couple years now and have un-nuetered dogs whom I could breed....but I just as soon leave that up to the experts. The breeders who have researched there lines, know all the health concerns, put the time and effort into protecting there lines, and have the knowledge base to determine who should be bred....

  13. I definetly wouldnt' try to "categorize" training methods...the methods used are only as good as the person who uses them, or in this case the instructor who teaches them.. I have personally seen damage done in many ways by so called "positive only" dog trainers who end up having a maniac dog on there hands AND formal obedience trainers who use "traditional" methods, and want to jerk and intimidate a dog...


    I absloutely agree that it's the individual trainers ability that you should be looking for, and with pups...you can't really do much harm by taking them to a local petco/petsmart for socialization/basic commnads..my very best friend recently accepted a training position at a Petco, she is a wonderful trainer and althou they have to go through some training on how tPetco wants them to structure there training, she is basicly left to teach the class how she feels best..so it really is up to each trainer.


    For future training seeking out a knowledgable trainer based on great word of mouth would be your best bet :) The person I train with recently has never taken an APDT class in her life but has 30 plus years traing and handling dogs...and comes HIGLY recomneded by EVERYONE!!! She not only trains and handles her own dogs succesfuly in competitions, but she has the gift of TEACHING to her students also which is key! I believe good dog trainers aren't on either side of the spectrum..there's nothing wrong with teaching dogs there is a consequence for certain actions as is there is nothing wrong with shaping and using positive motivation for teaching and encouraging good behaviors!!! Alot of great trainers I know are very creative, and certainly are open minded.


    Use your own commen sense and judgment when looking into trainers :) You'll know if you feel right or not about the person and methods :)

  14. This is what you originally wrote for Cerb to do...


    "Example. Put him on leash and take him to an area that's distracting. Let him check it out and be a dog. After he's had a chance to do that, call his name, and stand and wait. When he looks toward you, you could use food to reward, but then immediately release him back to what he was doing. So the bigger reward was being sent back to do his thing."


    So to teach the recall using environmental distractions you take the dog on leash to what it wants to sniff or do...let him do it, call his name(i'm assuming probably more tha once if it's a REALLY appealing thing)...and WAIT for the dog to look at you. This is coming directly from what you said above...you're not waiting for the dog to respond to you when you RELEASE the dog.


    I understand the concept of allowing what the dog desires to look at or do to BE the reward for coming...when training a young dog for stock I call him off repeatedly and then we go BACK to work, so he doesn't think that coming to me ends his fun....BUT the difference is that when I do call him, they better come immediatly. I'm not going to wait until they are done sniffing or doing whatever they want to do and take there sweet time deciding to listen, that's a dangerous idea for a dog to get in his head in my opinion.....for safety reasons.


    And in my previous post I did say I absolutely let my dogs "be dogs" and sniff/play, etc upon a release command(I often well recall them, reward and release again to play so they know coming is not the end of a fun activity), but when training ESPECIALLY for a recall I would never let my dog think it's ok to choose to do something "self gratifying" and listen when they are done.

  15. Cerb "You give them their "environmental" rewards where it's safe and hope the habit carries over to when it's not" Sorry, this isn't good enough for me...I do ALOT of off leash walking in populated parks with huge distractions and I'm not about to let my pups think it's ok to make choices revolving around what they want to do. My dogs safety is the ultimate priority and I train in a way where I know with a %100 certainty they are going to listen, and they've been trained to know when something is asked they need to listen. That's not not to say I don't release them to go sniff/play, etc. But I don't understand a training method that would allow the dog to think it's alright to ignore there handler...


    Root Beer said that you should let the dog sniff and do whatever it wants and when it CHOOSES to look at you, reward and release it back to do what it wants...

  16. This is in interesting idea...but what happens when he badly wants to sniff or investigate something that isn't safe...


    First you have no authority at this point to tell him to leave it alone, and even if you did get him to come quickly to you because you've built it into the dog that he GETS to go back and sniff or do whatever he wants....the dog will not get to do that with this seemingly un-safe thing, so the chain or reward is broken..

  17. Not getting into anything formal here....but if my dog has a "blonde moment", like at home or out pottying or whatever...I usually do something goofy, like sneek up and give me a little pinch on the flank or poke...followed up with happy praise "what are ya doing ya goofball!!!" they are usually like "HOLY crap you came outta know where!!!"


    I have obedience commands that they know are an absolute no questions asked COME, WITH ME, and STAY that we practice in all situations and are "non-negotiable" because they are for safety and they are off leash most of the time...if they don't listen to those they know the consequences..


    But if there just being "lazy" and it's not to big of a deal...I just tease em a little ;) They usually don't make that mistake very often!!!


    I think the best thing you can do for your dogs is make your expecations as clear and consistent as possible :)

  18. Olivia...at a "fun match" last weekend I put him through all the exercises and for some reason with the borad jump he just didn't jump it, went right around it and to front. Looking back it is all my fault because I never really "proofed" the broad jump because he was always so good at it!!! I never really worked hard at having him understand the exercise and that he needed to focus forward on the jump and then come to front and finish...with the way his mind works I think he was just so one step ahead, why jump over the jump at all?? I normally would go back to the foundations of the exercise and re-teach the basics...but since we had a week before the show I had to think of ways to just re-inforce the exercise as much as possible and make it fun in hopes he would complete the exercise at the show!! So I did alot of calling him over the jump with rewards and treats/toy through the legs...mostly entermiten throwing of a visible rolling treat(cheese puff or peanut butter captain crunch) when he was in the air commited to the jump...so he would run out upon landing..timing of this is crucial though, so you don't reward before he commits to the jump. He'll get to learning to tell when you are gonna reward or not :) I always like to keep him guessing :)


    Thanks Rushdoggie!!! That's what I figured was happening....I'll try only rewarding him when he gets it right the first time :)


    We did not try the box option, although that was recomended to me by a judge...but the couple trainer I run things by who are super succesful both feel that the work on the box doesn't transfer over?? The dog knows when the box is there and when it isn't no matter how much you try and fade it out...you still run into the same problems..I think the box can be a good tool for helping a dog to sit square though, tuck there body into a nice sit :)

  19. Well...the "band-aiding" of the darned broad jump worked for the weekend!!! My boy got his last leg and finished his CDX title in STYLE!!! First place both days!!! We have shown 4 times, 4 Q's and 4 first places!!! Good boy :)


    It was a VERY distracting show with breed showing going on right next to us and spectators EVERYWHERE but my guy didn't loose focus once!!! He has been so much fun to work and train...not without challenges of course(FORGING FORGING FORGIN) and we still need tweaks on our fronts and finished to get above a 198 1/2 score...but we're getting there!!!


    Already have him half way trained to Utility....any recomendations on getting better fronts and finished would be great...he always fixes himself when I tell him to and he is off a hair...but we need to be strait the first shot to up our scores!!!!

  20. I would agree if Snappy, I have 5 dogs who I can take anywhere off leash but that happened through LOTS of training...you need to put the time into training to be reliable off leash.


    #1 Rule) Coming when called is NOT an option, the more you are setting him up to be un-succesful and run off, do his own thing...the more he is figuring out this is great fun and he doesn't have to listen to you..


    #2) LONG LINE....this pup needs a reality check and you need to be able to enforce the come if he doesn't listen....if the flat buckle tug on a long line isn't having an effect...use a prong collar..he is young, but coming reliably off leash is a SAFTEY issue and he could get hit by a car while chasing squirells or get in other trouble..


    Alot of young dogs go through a period where you or yourself or what you have to offer(treats, toy, whatever) just isn't as cool as chasing things, etc...hence consistency, patience, and a "come to jesus meeting" are in order...


    Remember..you want to set your young guy up to be succesful, so keep him on a long line for longer than you think you need to..working in distractions, etc..


    Stick with it and you'll have a wonderful, reliable off leash partner...

  21. He isn't un-willing to jump..he actually loves to jump the broad jump...I just think he is focused SO much on getting to me and to "front"...and has so much drive, he just skips the jump all together, or cuts it as close as possible...


    If I had to re-train it I would probably HEAVILY reward a target at the other end of the jump...to get him focused on his job as jumping the jump..and not getting to me as fast as possible..


    The way I train is everything is highly fast/fun and motivated, he is always driving forward full speed...I think this is an excercise where he needs to actually focus ahead of him and not on me..so ways to train that would be key..


    Proofing the broad jump can be hard because you really can't correct the dog easily for doing the wrong thing..it has to almost all be breaking the exercise down and re-training I think...


    I will probably go back and "re-train" the whole thing after the show, but for now I'm not sure what else I can do but keep things fun and target him to focus on something at the other side of the broad jump and not getting sucked in by me..

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