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BenjaminButton's Achievements


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  1. Thanks Gloria. Can someone suggest any sports breeders that at least cross working lines in and produce consist sound dogs then? I just don't know how many sports breeders I've heard great things about... Edit: One more question, what makes a working breeder breed their dogs to a sport/agility bred dog into the lines?
  2. Other breeds with were also considered but she does want to do competitive high level sports. Most of the other breeds with merle are too big or too small for disc competition with the exception of Australian Shepherds but she just prefers the structure and speed of BCs more. Are you suggesting she should find a pet/sport breeder instead of working breeder? I just don't know how much I agree with some of their breedings. I've been hearing quite a lot of nasty things about certain pet/sport breeders ending with aggressive, fearful and just dogs with unsound temperaments. I rescued a dog once that had massive behavioral problems due to breeding that 3 behaviorists, a couple of trainers and vets could not do anything about. After a hard long struggle that dog (only 2 yrs old at the time) had to be put to sleep. It's such a huge heart ache and I don't want anything like that to happen to my friend because of intentional poor breeding practices.
  3. Yeah I thought it would be ok to share but my friend was quite upset about it. I don't know why, I guess she's afraid to be judged for wanting a merle. But I respect her wishes so I deleted my post about her.
  4. Edit: Sorry guys, I've just been informed that my friend does not want to share info about her publicly so it has been deleted.
  5. I've noticed quite a few people here have merle BCs and I rarely ever see merles in working lines or show lines as a matter of fact. What breedings are your merle dogs? Are they any significant working breeders with merles as their breeding stock right now in the US/Canada/Great Britain. Btw you can PM me if you feel uncomfortable putting names.
  6. LOL I don't want a definitive answer, that's why I want people's opinions. I'm just saying I don't have a definitive answer and that's why I'm here. If I did have a definitive answer, I wouldn't be hear hearing all your opinions. I didn't mean to be so snappy but the person that replied to me made me kind of pissed off. I get the feeling that because I'm not an expert on that particular dog, I shouldn't talk about her which to me is just rubbish. If I had knowledge to share, I would share it but I really don't know that much about the BC world so I'm here to learn.
  7. That's just the dog and owner having some fun. The dog is not undignified at all. The owner has a similar dress as do the people behind that dog so why would only the dog be undignified?? People should be allowed to have fun with their dogs if the dogs are enjoying it too. That amount of time on the hind legs is fine, I'm sure the owner would stop if there is a problem. A dog that is trained like that does not have a owner that doesn't care about him/her. Besides, have you heard of the dog called Faith that walk on her hind legs? Her legs and spine are still fine.
  8. I didn't not say I know this dog in and out. I said I READ from random internet pages. For all I know those people could be trolls, cat people, kids, I have no idea. That's why I was here to ask you people that actually know this dog, know BCs lines, etc. I'm just here to learn and hear opinions and no I will not start discussions on topics I already know because then there is no point of a discussion if I know everything and have a definitive answer.
  9. But should she not be bred just because she is a good fluke and because her relatives aren't doing stock work? I think one dog that proves themselves should be allowed to pass on their own genes and good traits. When breeders started breeding BCs didn't they also take the best dogs that did teh work the fastest/most efficiently and then breed them? If Harley can do work efficiently and has good structure and health, I don't see why she shouldn't be bred just because of a registration issue.
  10. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything!! I just like debates and I find this topic highly interesting. I'm not saying conformation or sports dogs can herd or whatever you are saying that I'm implying, I'm just questioning the different breeders of border collies. I want to know why a show bred dog can't herd and why working folk are so vehemently opposed to any other breedings other than a working dog. Sure the simple answer is a BC is a working dog but trialing is more along the lines of sports than working anyways. It's just another form of competition, so why is it superior to other forms of competition like agility, obedience, etc. etc. And how does one decide what kind of work should be done by a BC? any kind of herding whether it be ducks, emus, sheep, and cows or only sheep? I gain nothing from it other than the opinions of different people and I enjoy that. I want to understand both sides and their reasons for breeding what they do. I personally have no problems with sports bred BCs provided that they are not maniacs, bouncing off the walls, no focus at all which seems to be becoming more common in sports breedings. I have met a few sports bred BCs that are very stable and are doing amazingly in agility or frisbee and I see no problem with that. In fact I've met a few of Jan's dogs at the agility classes near here and they have good temperaments. In fact, one of the agility instructors I know has 2 of them and recommends them to her students. Of course I've also met a few crazy BCs that I absolutely cannot see fitting into any home at all from sports breedings... The biggest problem I have with people breeding is just breeding for no real reason. Not even something like show or sports. Plain, no purpose, no health test, no proven dogs in anything breeding is what constitutes bad breeding to me. From what I've learned in this thread I think the show BCs should possibly start a different breed (I mean consider their show bred BCs a different breed) and call their dogs something else and go from there.
  11. Hmm..this is sort of related to the topic I started on barbie collies herding but I think in that ridiculous article talking about Harley who finished her AKC Ch. and was competing fairly well in open level USBCHA. Apparently this particular dog couldn't be registered with both registries because one parent only had AKC registration while the other parent had both. I think for what she has done, she could be bred if the owner wanted to.
  12. Thanks a lot for the info! I doubt I can drop by this week since I'm working the whole weekend. I'd love to fine some other trials to go to in advance though! Then I can book a day off and go have a look. Are there any youtube videos of conformation BCs herding? I'd love to see some. Also what are the conformation breeder's thoughts on the working dogs?
  13. Oh I didn't know that! That's quite interesting. So basically from what I gather of this thread BCs are just like Alaskan huskies and are not really a defines breed other than being able to do certain work at a certain level.
  14. I have had 3 in my life. Only one right now. One was a working bred one more than 20 yrs ago from a farm no registration, no health tests. He was a free puppy. The other 2 are both rescues. I have absolutely no interest in breeding a dual champion herding dog. I have no interest in breeding period. So what happens when breeders/farms start adding aussies, sight hounds or w/e into the breedings? Would this new type still be considered a BC if it does great work?
  15. this is an excellent point. I do not agree with the akc standard either. The dogs are too heavy and thick boned. Most are too large for my personal taste as well. However, by completely not caring about aesthetics I fear that bcs will no longer be a breed and be more like a type like Alaskan Huskies. Alaskan huskies are bred only and solely for working ability and conformation wise, there is a huuuge variation. More than what is acknowledged in a breed of dog so to me A. huskies is just a type. I've seen some working farms with BCs that don't look much like a BC anymore, not sure I'd they've crossed their dogs with aussies and other shepherds/herders or not. I'm not talking about the people that compete in herding, just some small time working farms I've seen while driving around.
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