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Posts posted by Smalahundur

  1. What Maja said, and it generally only takes6 once!

    Probably/maybe, when we are talking real puppies.

    I know the rather strange habit of calling dogs "puppies" when they are imo way past that life stage.

    I personally would not call an 8 month dog a puppy anymore, and by that age such a behavior has become more or less ingrained. I think it is a bit optimistic that you will be able to cure this problem with one single correction at this point.

  2. I am with Gloria on this one.

    Even if it is not aggression, a face nip from a 7/8monthth old dog is a rather scary experience. Snapping jaws in your face by a bordercollie sized dog...

    I would definitely say "no", and I would say it only once, after that it is "coming down like a ton of bricks" time. The dog has to understand that this kind of play with humans is absolutely unacceptable.

    Until that is clear I would not let him on the couch with you.And certainly no more playing rough like your brother in law did.

  3. Well, in many way, including digestively, dogs are wolves, and classified as a subspecies of wolf.


    Which of course means that they have no dietary needs for carbohydrates, which is the basis Blue Buffalo's food. 9That's what really offends me about their BS claims.

    Dogs differ significantly from wolves, especially digestively. They are much better at digesting starch, which is a fine energy source for them.

    "No dietary need for carbohydrates" is therefor not entirely correct.

  4. It is often added to a breed name to make it sound like the dog has some ancient original roots. They did it with the english bulldog.

    More often than not a recent name addition that does not say a lot about the dog's origines.

    In case of the bulldog it is for a new type of dog bred to look more like the pictures of dogs of a hundred years ago (in itself not a bad thing).

  5. There are no doubt populations of working dogs beside bordercollies.

    But as far as I know hardly in west europe anymore.

    The belgian shepherd is not seriously being used and bred for stockwork for generations.


    Of course it is possible to take a random dog that has a biddable nature and teach him to work stock, and you will get a useable dog as shown in these vids ( my first comment was about the driving video, I stand by my assessment, he looks a bit better in the second vid).


    Calling me a bordercollie person and not qualified therefor to understand the different working style of other races I think is a rather weak argument. Work = work.

    This dog is in the shown vids doing the kind of stockwork you would do with bordercollies, kelpies, coolies etc. Driving and fetching. And for a 7 year old dog not very impressive, usefull, sure, high quality, no.


    The reason I would have no interest in owning this dog has nothing to do with the fact that it isn't a bordercollie, and everything with the fact that I don't believe he would be cut out for the kind of work I need a dog for. I got bordercollies because I have range sheep, not the other way round.


    And by the way, the different style of the belgian and dutch shepherds has to do with a different kind of stockwork, guarding and keeping in place a grazing flock. And again they are not being bred and selected anymore for that job.

  6. Hm, I don't see the sheep move off him, it is like they regard him as a black sheep with pointy ears. On occasion you see him even walk into the sheep, and " mingle" without any reaction from the sheep.


    The dog seems to be devoid of all sheep sense, he just wanders off to the sides only to return when the human (who imo really does all the driving) calls him back. At least I have the impression that is what happens, she does not seem to send him to the sides.


    The dog is nice and calm I give him that, but nowhere in this vid I see him do something the sheep are reacting to, and could be called work. This job would go pretty much the same without him present I think.

  7. Dear Mr. Smalahundar,


    Your suggestion that not telling the story because it may be hijacked seems riskier than allowing the hijackers to tell the story in the first place.



    Dear mr. Donald,

    I think we are taking your analogy too far, analogies can illustrate a point, but they are worthles arguments.

    It will probably make more sense talking directly about the pro's and con's of sdt as an olympic sport.

    Personally I think the trial sport though important can not function as the grassroots for stockdogs. In my opinion these lay in real farm/ranch work. If for whatever reason people stop using dogs there I strongly suspect stockdogs as we know and appreciate are doomed.


    My remark about the dressage horse was exactly about that; the original function of dressage and related horse sports was to demonstrate the fitness and level of training of war horses. This original function has completely disappeared (luckily).

    But really, nobody would want to ride into battle on a modern dressage horse, believe me....

  8. If we don't tell the story someone else will.


    Oh, but the trouble is exactly that, the story as you choose to call it will go off in directions you might not like. And don't be too sure "we" will be the authors of those new and exciting chapters.

    Remember the dressage horse Donald.

  9. I think a pup is more of a risk ( and a nuisance :) ), when looking for a stockdog prospect.

    But the alternative for me is not a rescue, but a well bred dog started by the breeder, ideally 8 to 12 months old. A bit more expensive than a pup, a lot less expensive than a fully trained dog. A reasonable middle road.

    That is the choice I made with the dog I purchased to fill the place of Peli who died last december. He is currently on try-out.

    But I need a working dog, not a pet. And if I wanted a pet dog a bordercollie would not be my first choice.

  10. Well you people might find it interesting that the dutch word for shepherd is " herder". Both the human and canine kind. I kid you not.


    @Sue, here it is around 0 C and I for one am starting my brand new eight month dog ;). Just tried him first time yesterday.

    There has been virtually no traffic in the export section the last years, and hardly any in the stockwork related ones. There is no significant influx of new users that train their dogs on livestock. And that's what you need for lively discussions.

    So just a couple of long time users shooting the breeze.

    No, this is not a seasonal thing, sadly enough.

  11. On a related note, that there is a three page discussion about the affront of the use of a term like herding, while there hasn't been one about actual herding (sorry, stockwork training I mean!) in ages, says a lot about the current state of these forums....

  12. Trialing is a sport, by every definition.

    Yes it is optional and for the ribbons/ prices. It also simulates work, and therefor tests working ability. Doesn't change the fact it is a sport.

    It riles me more that for instance agility people talk about their "working" dogs, and their sport as "work".

  13. I can't make noises that way though...


    I thought so too, tried to learn it as a kid, but never got it to work, blamed my slightly crooked front teeth.

    Until I got into bordercollies, and talked to my wife how practical fingre whistling would be. She said everybody can learn to do that, and proceeded to teach me succesfully :)

    I was over 40 years old when I "got it", so I would say if you are really interested in acquiring this skill I am sure you could do it.

    It is very usefull, not only on dogs, people also respond very well to such a piercing whistle over distances you couldn't shout.

  14. After trying several whistles (didn't invest too much though) I drew the conclusion that whistling on my fingers is far superior to those shepherd whistles.

    No spit trouble, way more volume, can't forget them at home or loose them( barring horrible accidents...).

    Only possible drawback is you sometimes stick fingers in your mouth and thén remember just lifting a very dirty horse hoove moments before....

  15. I knew a man who worked in a feedlot with his ACD. They were not a real good partnership at first but as the man learned good handling of his dog, they became a team.

    One day, a cow took exception to that man and began a very credible job of killing him, and that dog saved his life. That dog went from valuable to priceless in that man's mind.

    It's hard to judge ju9st what value someone else might attach to a dog.

    But "value" is not the same thing as "price".

    Take for instance the horse I value most for the roundup; I value him so high that you would have to put an absurd price on the table if you wanted to buy him from me, several times the market value of such a horse.

    I have no doubt the same thing would go for this man's dog. Has nothing to do with a realistic price, and if I would shop for a nice working dog trying to buy this dog of him would be a very stupid thing to do.

    Just like trying to buy Máni of me...

  16. These kind of prices always make me a bit suspicious.

    And apart from that even if this is all in order, nice for the seller, but in my humble opinion not a good thing for the stockdog world in general.

    Such a price is absurd high, and in no connection with the basic costs this dog has had for it's breeder/previous owner. So it is speculation, maybe hopes for makung money with the stud fees?

    I am prepared to pay for a well bred pup, I am prepared to pay more for a started youngster that looks good, and has cost the breeder additional training time/upkeep and so on.

    Not in a million years would I put 30.000 dollars on the table; that's more than 3 million isk, the most expensive dogs here have been imported stud dogs, fully trained and proven top dogs for at the most a third of that amount, and that is "all in", dog, import, quarantine etc.

    But of course there is a dutch saying that something is worth " wat de gek er voor geeft"; loosely translated " what a fool ( meant as "anybody") is prepared to pay.

  17. I really don't see the problem with the dreaded "p word".

    Yes I correct my dogs, and yes the stronger corrections could well be defined as punishment.

    But I don't train "correction/punishment based" as I also reward.

    In my opinion any dog should learn how to take a correction even if it is just a very mild verbal one (for the sensitive ones, stronger for the more thick skulled individuals).


    As for the dog in the opening post, I think I would kinda put him up for a while, also with regard to his age. Just do the things that he likes like fetch, for at least a couple of weeks (months). And then slowly and gradually reintroduce more specific training.

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