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MINI Border Collies


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I know some people in the States are trying to breed Border Collies down to meet the 16" height requirement for AKC Agility (I don't know what the height cut off is), and people have always been trying to breed BCs down for height dogs for flyball. However, any Border Collie of any size can be registerd with any Border Collie registry.

 

Lots of people here in flyball and agility think my Border Collies are huge - my bitches are approx. 20.75 inches tall and my males are always around the 21.5 inch mark. They want Border Collies under 18".

 

I remember when Bi-black Shelties became popular a few years back - I had quite a few people asking me about where they could get a miniature Border Collie from :rolleyes::D

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I haven't heard that. Some people have asked me if this is a miniature Border Collie :rolleyes: :

ZippyLook.jpg

 

Caroline, I have seen some of the ones at flyball tourney's like you mention. Very sad indeed. They seemed to be on such short stumpy little legs...

 

Diane, I wouldn't be surprised. It may even be something like the "teacup" yorkies and poodles. There actually is no such thing, just minis being bred to sub-standard and dangerously small sizes. :D Its all very sad, and BC politics aside so many of the other breeds of mini's and teacups have just unbelievable health problems.

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I have heard the same things about breeding mini border collies. My Carlie dog is 17 inches tall and jumps 16" in AKC. (Yes, I do AKC agility and don't want to discuss it in this thread.) I was approached once about breeding her to get short border collies. The person was very disappointed to learn that Carlie is spayed. She is very nicely proportioned with good leg length, just short.

 

Olivia

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I'd want to hear something from NASDS as far as this concerned. Old Arthur Allen would be rolling over in his grave, if this is true.

 

I'll take this with a grain of salt until I hear words from the organization themselves.

 

There are enough reasons to doubt and one of these reasons might be to discredit NASDS as a working registry. All speculation and I have no proof, but it's a thought.

 

It's not that I doubt these "breeds" are created. This sort of thing has been going on for years, but I usually associate the creation of these things with profiteers and now to satisfy the vanity of dog sport freaks---a seedy practice, in my opinion.

 

What I do question, is the registration of these dogs. I can only hope that what Diane read about is wishful thinking on someone's part---wishful, but misguided.

 

If NASDS comes forth and says it's true, it will be yet another sad day for the working border collie----when these bastardized versions of a breed are used to fill a registry.

 

Based solely on what is presented here, this practice would make NASDS no better than the Continental Kennel Club, the World Wide Kennel Club, or any other of these registries that were created to sop up the mess of backyard breeders and puppymills in an effort to lend legitimacy to designer mutts.

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....from the person in question......to a friend of mine....

 

>>I breed Mini BC's. There is such a thing.......<<<<<

 

>>>>> They are however selectively bred to be a lot smaller than the AVERAGE. My dogs are sold to working homes, furthermore they are in the process of being Reg. through foundation stock Reg. which is, if you do your homework, the original home of all Registries.<<<<<<

 

diane

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I think you'd be lucky to get ANY BC registered with NASDS. They have fallen apart recently. They had a change in hands but I hear it is a horrible nightmare for them to sort through. They basically lost my friend's dog's registration. Never to be seen again. Fortunately we heard about that before we sent ours to them so we sent it to ABCA instead and they registered the dog for us.

So unless this woman knows something I don't, she won't be getting that registration from NASDS any time soon. - kinda puts a hole in her story doesn't it?

Jenny

PS Laura, that is a cute Papillion!

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"Foundation STock registry"- could be a reference to the old ARF- Animal Registry Foundation - that operated in the mid- 70's-80's, the guy who started it died but I heard a few years ago that his son or some relative started it back. I had heard of the ARF registering stockdogs long before I had ever heard of the NASDS or AIBC.

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"I think you'd be lucky to get ANY BC registered with NASDS. They have fallen apart recently. They had a change in hands but I hear it is a horrible nightmare for them to sort through"

 

Jennifer - do you know how recent this was? A friend of mine is planning a litter early next year, and she usually registers with NASDS as well as CBCA. The last time she registered pups with NASDS was in early 2004.

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Originally posted by toney:

"Foundation STock registry"- could be a reference to the old ARF- Animal Registry Foundation - that operated in the mid- 70's-80's, the guy who started it died but I heard a few years ago that his son or some relative started it back. I had heard of the ARF registering stockdogs long before I had ever heard of the NASDS or AIBC.

Isn't there also a registry in the States call the National Stockdog Registry or something like that where you can register any kind of stock dog?
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more info from the breeder.....she breds the Minis and gets $750 for them.....this is her reply to some folks.

 

 

>>>Yes they are pure bred dogs. They mature at 16 inches or slightly smaller. They will be a high drive litter to go to working homes. They

will be $750. I have a list of people already, but I am not taking deposits until the ultrasound. She is due May 21st.

 

I did not post her email/name but if you want it, email me offline"<<<<<<

 

 

BCR rescue of PNW has had several Mini Border Colies in rescue......we don't know if theya re from her but.......

 

 

Diane

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Gross.

 

When she says "working homes," does she mean sport homes?

 

Sheltie people cannot even guarantee that their dogs will mature below 16", and they have been doing the small dog thing for a long time. With Border Collies so variable in size, I don't see how anyone can possibly guarantee that their dogs will remain small.

 

Color me disgusted.

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I think my friend has some of these "mini Border Collies" She has never referred to them as that, but they fit that description. She recently bred a litter for dogs to run in the 16" hieght division, and you are absolutly corect SoloRiver, even though the parents were tiny, the pups have matured into dogs that are about the size of my kiowa, who jumps 20-24".

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Here is the thread.....

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/sear...bbreviation=pet

 

Start from the bottom and read up. Apparently she answered the second post privately to my friend who said that Border Collies should be bred for work. That person she replied to then sent me part of the email (above) that she bred for MINI BORDER COLLIES dogs. Then her is her reply to the posts on craiglist.

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/pet/144993318.html

 

What is very interestiong is that on craigslist she claims she does not bred Mini but in private emails she states "I breed Mini BC's. There is such a thing......."

 

Selling them for $750 based on their size too....

 

Diane

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I met a 'mini" Aussie at dog school. Creeped me out. It had a black tri coat, short tail wide body and stubby legs. It waddled to walk and seemed lethargic, but every Aussie I've ever personally known has been a little....quiet. It was an inch shorter than Meg so about 17".

 

Shudder.

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I've seen a "Toy Aussie." As far as I could tell, it was a docked Papillon.

 

I also recall seeing a docked Papillon on a rescue list a while back. It was nearly solid black tri, while Papillons are supposed to have little body color (they can have patches, but are supposed to be mainly white). I wondered if the docked Pap was intended to be a "Toy Aussie."

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Oh goodness, I'm glad this topic came up. I just had a conversation the other day about someone who was going to pick up their new Mini Border Collie puppy and I wanted to gag. I had never heard of this before but I guess it was just a matter of time. I had heard about Mini Aussies.

 

Lisa

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There are folks who are serious about breeding "mini Aussies". I don't agree with that but the few I have met have been lovely dogs and all Aussie, just small scale. Like breeding for color, when you breed for something irrelevent to function, you will be compromising.

 

The thought of breeding "mini Border Collies" makes me think someone's breeding either for the flyball or agility market, or for the pet-dog-in-a-purse market. I am not sure which repulses me more, but I guess it's the thought of "mini Border Collies" as an alternative to Toy Poodles and the like. Gag me now...

 

So, when will the AKC declare the minis of both kinds to be new breeds, and make them "legitimate" to the public and a new source of revenue for the AKC. And then they will all want them to train on "mini sheep" and run in "mini trials" and get "mini versatility" titles...

 

Anytime there are fools, there will be a market, and when there's a market, there will be someone out to make a buck by producing what will sell.

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