travel anxious and thunder phobic dogs

[Guest herbertholmes]

Hey guys - some of you must have travel anxious and thunder phobic dogs out there. How do you handle it and are there any good products out there that calm dogs down who are reacting to travel stress or thunder? The only product I have tried (on myself and my dog) is rescue remedy and it didn't seem to work for either of us.

 

Alison Holmes

[Carson Crazies]

Hi Alison! I have a dog who is pretty badly thunder phobic, and in the beginning she was also travel anxious. I can't really address specifically the travel part - because it appears to have been linked to fear of being handed off to someone else and has since cleared up, but I can speak to the thunder part.

 

I have been using the DAP (dog appeasing pheromone) products (diffusers and sprays). It is basically a substance that closely mimics the pheromones that a bitch emits for her nursing puppies - and it calms them. You can get these in sprays or plug-ins (like glade plug-ins). I have both for June. I will use a plug-in in our dog-room at home and crate her during storms. If we are on the road I spray the spray on her bedding and put it (and her) in her crate.

 

I think it helps some. Its not like turning off a light switch, but it does seem to do some good. There have been some discussions about anxiety wraps here, but I haven't tried that yet (and probably will this season).

 

I have also tried Clomicalm during the storm season - and Acepromazine. Unfortunately I didn't see where either of those did much good, and the Ace just made her loopy and uncoordinated - but still terrified.

 

I have a friend that swears by valerian root (which appears to me to act more or less like a muscle relaxer, but can be slightly sedating). I know others give melatonin or L-Tryptophan, but I'll have to let them tell about that.

 

Hope this helps some.

[nancy]

Wearing a seatbelt harness was all Fergie needed to change her travel anxiety into anxiety that she won't get to travel. She needed the security. We tried a crate, but it wasn't as good.

 

We give her one generic benedryl when a storm is coming. If it gets really bad, we give her a second one. Mostly, it makes her sleepy. But that's better than vibrating and hiding.

[Dixie_Girl]

I have the same prob with my muttly Cheyenne. She didn't develope the storm thing till she was 4yrs old though, we have no clue why. I have never medicated. But have tried everything else. I just let her be. She tries to climb inside us and I will hold her. Don't think I would like to use drugs though. The DAP seems like something I would like to try. Laura, do you get it from vet or retail store?

[Carson Crazies]

The DAP seems like something I would like to try. Laura, do you get it from vet or retail store?

I initially got it from my vet, but then found alternative means. I have bought it from online retailers, such as PetEdge. However, there is a local store here that carries it now, and sometimes I pick it up there - if I'm in a rush. You can get it much cheaper online, but sometimes the extra fees and shipping can eat up any savings.

 

June's reaction to the thunder is to shake, pant, and run around blindly - jumping up down off over and under things. I have no doubt that she could hurt herself. When the storm hits I will crate her with the door to the dog room shut, with the diffuser plugged in and a lamp turned on. Depending on whats going on I often will sit down in there with them (I have a comfy chair in there) and read a book while the storm rages. It seems that my non-chalant attitude soothes her too.

[Carson Crazies]

I like these people for their customer service - quick and easy.

 

DAP

 

Basically once you get the plug-in then after the first one runs out you can just buy the refills.

[Pipedream Farm]

Alison,

 

How severe of a reaction do your dogs have? This will dictate what I would recommend you try.

 

Above all DO NOT USE Acepromazine; it does nothing to calm the fears it only immobilizes the dog being able to react.

 

I have read that melatonin or L-tryptophan can be helpful; but I suspect for only mild cases.

 

If the reaction is severe enough that the dog is injuring itself seek Vet help. If the Vet recommends ace, find a new Vet.

 

Mark

[Little Bo Boop]

You can try melatonin. I've had good success using it on my Border Collies. I used it on my older dog,who had cancer and was undergoing chemo. it relaxed him (it's also an antioxident) I've also started giving it to my young Border collie who has just recently started freaking out at thunder and popping noises . the melatonin doesn't impare them, just relaxes them. They also claim it aids in OCD in dogs and cats. I use regular people mel. 3mg. for a 50lb dog. with my cancer dog, I would just give him 1/2 in the am and the other 1/2 before bed. Worked great.

[Guest herbertholmes]

Little Bo Boop - Melatonin, hey? I will try it as I just happen to have some, for myself.

 

Mark - The travel anxious dog is not bad at all, just stands and pants (just about 11 hours straight last weekend - I had her in the pick up with us trying rescue remedy). She will lie down when we stop or for short moments on a very smooth road surface but the minute we hit bumps, up she comes. She is also thunder bothered but not a self injurious type. She and Herbert's old Jan pant and run around the house - mild cases but they are distressed all the same. We had a thunderstorm last night, that on top of the travel last weekend is what brought this up. And not to worry, Ace wasn't what I was looking for.

 

And Mark - if you want and have the time, email me privately about life with Jasper !

 

Alison

[Allie Oop]

Mark, thanks for the comment on the Acepromazine.

 

I have never used it, but a friend of mine got some from the vet to use on her dog (an OES)when they were taking a long road trip out-of-state. (Her dog has major car anxieties.) The poor dog did NOT do well with the Acepromazine at all and ended up having two seizures during the trip (they discontinued the use of the drug). My friend said that her vet told her that it was commonly used to treat dogs with anxieties and also acted as an anti-emetic, but, at least in this instance, it wasn't a good choice.

 

I thought it was just a horse tranquilizer.

[Carson Crazies]

I haven't liked the Ace either, and have decided NOT to give any more of it. Just like with any other drug there are certain beings that have bad reactions, but I've just heard of too many with Ace. It doesn't seem to help the anxiety any, just makes them uncoordinated and loopy - and sometimes just too doped to run.

[Pipedream Farm]

Alison,

 

based upon your description I'd try melatonin or L-tryptophan. I believe melatonin is given as needed but may have to be in their system sometime before the stress starts. Start your reading here: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/melatonin.htm

 

I believe tryptophan is similar (given as needed but ahead of time).

 

I'd find sources of info you'd trust (i.e. not someone trying to sell you something) for recommendations of how much to give and when.

 

My other recommendation is to not baby these dogs while they are in a fear state; it only reinforces this behavior. Give them something else to think about (bone to chew on, toy, etc) and show them you're not concerned by the environment.

 

Mark

[Little Bo Boop]

It was my experience with the melatonin that I could notice a difference in the dog within about 15 minutes. It does not make them loopy, but they are just 'chilled' for lack of a better word. I'll see if I can find my sites that I had on it and it's uses and dosing. As I said I used 3mg, as my Border collies are fairly large. Melatonin is actually an interesting agent. I'm considering giving it to a horse that I have that is anhydrotic, he doesn't sweat, and that poses a big problem here in Texas. Melatonin is used for bringing mares into season...something to do with the light etc....anyway as my horse sweats in the srping and fall, he is capable of sweating, maybe his thermostat is just out of whack. Anyway, we've tried everything else, and my vet said it couldn't hurt him...so I'm going to give it a shot. sorry the horse part is off topic, just thought is was kind of interetsting.

[Meg's mum]

My GirlDog, may she romp in peace, was terrified of fireworks and thunderstorms. I used to pick her 23" 47 lb frame up, sit back on the bed and hold her in my arms and sing to her all night long. Eventually I could scoot her on to the bed beside me but I couldn't stop singing.

 

When Meg was between 10 - 14 weeks old she would shake in the SUV or the car on excursions. I started singing to her on the way to the State Park and back "You are my sunshine, my only sunshine..." It worked like a charm. Now I don't even have to sing.

 

When the pictures out the windows go by too fast she simply falls asleep now.

[Little Bo Boop]

Here is a pretty good site. Also if you just google malatonin and dogs with thunder phobias, you'll get a ton of hits. Good luck.

 

Melatonin

[Guest herbertholmes]

LBB - by the way, do have a real name?!!! Where in Texas are you?

 

Interesting that you bring up the anhyrdrosis element. When I was considering getting an anhydrotic mare, a man I met was telling me about his daughters barrel horse (very $$$)who quit sweating. They hauled it all over to the vets and specialists. Nothing helped. Somehow they got on to adding a beer to his feed morning and night and that helped tremendously. Sorry, I can't remember the brand !!

 

I didn't know that melatonin is used to cycle mares. I have been reading the melatonin link that Mark gave - very informative. I will definitely try it as I feel it is safer than L-tryptophan for sure. That stuff was banned for a reason - possibly deadly contaminants in the pills.

 

I will let you all know if it makes a difference on our next road trip in 2 weeks time.

 

thanks for all the replies.

 

Alison

[Little Bo Boop]

Yes, my name is Betty LOL, hence the Boop. I'm in La Vernia Tx. My TB gelding has been anhydrotic since I got him as a 3 yr. old, he's now 10 . I work/help an equine vet of mine part time and we have tried everything, from thyrol L, One AC, he even injected him with a hormone that brings mares in...they say sometimes that will jump start them...no luck. I tried the beer last summer, my TB's name is Guinness and that's what he got, amazingly enough he liked it, just poured it on his feed and he chowed down. DIdn't make him sweat, but he seemed happier LOL. Course I couldn't let him drink alone either. I would not advise buy a horse with this condition. He's is unrideable in the summer, I keep him up under misters. I'm constantly worried about founder, colic...from the stress. I'll be curious to see what effect,if any the melatonin has on him. I'll keep you posted. Your sig. is Alison, but your posting name is Herbert Holmes...is that the one that will be doing the clinic in a couple of weeks, near Boerne? I plan on attending.

[Guest herbertholmes]

Yep Betty - I am the wife of Herbert Holmes and yep - I sure hope we'll be seeing you at the clinic !!!

 

I didn't end up getting the mare - the non sweating thing had me too worried. And we are not set up to take tender care of any big livestock -it's all free range here, no barns or shelters. If I had my way that would be different but there's a certain father-in-law who owns the place ......!!!! My current mare has a worsening fly allergy that needs treatment - hard to do with our set up here.

 

Anyhow we digress, thanks Betty, email privately if you want to talk horses !

 

The melatonin thing really has me intrigued. I took it myself for a while - I am not a good sleeper. It helped me fall asleep but didn't help with the middle of the night wake ups. I certainly feel comfortable giving it to my dog after reading all the links you guys have provided.

 

And Meg's Mum - I don't dare sing to my dogs, that is sure to worsen their phobias!!

 

Alison

[diane allen]

Just for those of you willing to try anything: I have one real BC and one BC mix. Ms. Real (not her real name!) is totally noise phobic - thunderstorms,fireworks, backfires, gunshots all terrify her. Thankfully (?), all she wants to do is hide, preferably in a dark corner (laundry room is her fav). Ms. Mix dislikes all the above, but also freaks at high winds (scraping branches on gutters) and with travel. She just shakes, won't lie down or relax, and if loose (she's usually crated) would wander all over the vehicle.

 

I've used Rescue Remedy, DAP, melatonin and various other "calming" substances. None actually seem to make any difference at all. The DAP may relax Ms. Mix a bit, but she still shakes and won't lie down.

 

So - we don't coddle, but just protect. And hope that we don't hear those unpredictable loud noises (gunshots) when dogs are loose. Ms. Real would bolt back to the truck, but sometimes that can be a ways.

 

Used Ace on Ms. Real when she was recuperating from an injury and needed to stay quiet (a very low dose - could hardly tell she'd had anything, but at least she was willing to be still sometimes!). Don't think I'd try it for general "nerves" though.

 

Wish there was a good answer to this one!

[Little Bo Boop]

Looking forward to meeting you:) I'm friends with Rodney Long and Jennie. Got a pup from them, and hope to start trialing soon. I'm looking forward to the clinic.

[SoloRiver]

Lots of good advice so far. Neither Rescue Remedy nor melatonin had any effect for my noise phobic dog. I consider RR a waste of money, and melatonin just something that did not work for my dog. I take it myself to help me sleep sometimes, but not often since when I use it I wake up in a foul mood. I doubt it has this effect on my dog -- I think it's just me.

 

Here's an article about noise phobias you may find helpful:

 

http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article...l.jsp?id=136493

 

The most effective meds for noise phobias and other situational anxieties (like excessive fear at the vet) are benzodiazepines. These include short-acting anti-anxiety medications like Valium and Xanax. The words "Valium" and "Xanax" tend to scare people because these are both drugs that are abused by humans, but used appropriately they can be godsends to fearful dogs (and humans!). These types of drugs truly alleviate anxiety without a sedative effect (except at high doses), so the dog is able to learn from the experience. My noise phobic dog rode out a few storms on Xanax and stopped being so scared of them because it broke the cycle -- he was able to experience a storm that was decoupled from panic, if that makes any sense. He doesn't like storms, but he can handle them now instead of bolting, or attempting to stuff himself into tiny places including one-gallon pails and milk crates (he weighs 50 pounds, by the way). Solo no longer gets Xanax for storms unless they are very severe and very loud.

 

I have also given Solo Xanax while traveling -- for example, during the 3000 mile move from Virginia to California I did last summer -- and it helped a great deal. Solo does not appear drugged on Xanax. He merely becomes slightly more charming, the way some people do after a glass of wine.

 

Some vets are reluctant to prescribe benzodiazepines because they are afraid the owner will abuse the medication. This is one of the reasons Ace is so commonly prescribed. The cautions about Ace that have already been given are accurate, and reiterated in the article I mentioned above (see URL). None of my dogs are to have Ace for any reason, at any time, ever. If your vet will not entertain the possibility of benzodiazepines and insists on Ace instead, as Mark said, find a new vet.

 

Good luck, Melanie

[SoloRiver]

Oh, and P.S. --

 

The project I am working on (see .sig) is doing a study specifically looking at noise phobias in Border Collies. We are looking for both noise phobic and unaffected dogs for our study sample. This is a behavioral genetics project, so the data we are collecting includes a behavioral questionnaire and DNA samples in the form of buccal swabs or, if available, blood. We are looking to map this trait in families, as well as in unrelated cases/controls, to see if we can determine what the genetic background of noise phobia is.

 

The goal of this study is to come up with better treatments for dogs with noise phobias, because to treat something effectively you have to understand what causes it. In addition, if it were possible to screen dogs early for susceptibility to noise phobias, it would then be possible to identify dogs who are likely to develop problems early and start intervening early when we have the best chance of helping or curing the dog.

 

Many Border Collies are sensitive to noise and live with it readily. Many Border Collies who are sensitive to noise will work through their fear and therefore still be useful working dogs. However, there are some dogs for whom noise phobia becomes a very, very big problem that seriously degrades quality of life or may even lead to euthanasia. It's these dogs I'm primarily concerned about and hope to help.

 

Just in case anyone is wondering, we have no opinion about breeding decisions and are not advocating that breeders screen for noise phobia when making breeding decisions. I am personally agnostic on this myself, and want to make sure no one thinks I am on some sort of witch hunt to eliminate the "noise phobia gene" from the Border Collie population. In fact, Border Collies, unlike other breeds, may be unique in that many Border Collies are noise phobic without any other behavioral problems. In other breeds, approximately 70% of the dogs that are noise phobic also have other anxiety issues, like separation anxiety. There are apparently many many perfectly sound Border Collies who are only afraid of noises, and this may be a result of their unique working heritage. Understanding what's going on with Border Collies is a particularly interesting question.

 

Anyway, that's my plug for the day. If you are interested in participating in our study, feel free to email me directly.