Need assistance with my newly rescued BC

[dereklum]

Hi everyone. I have just adopted a young Border Collie a couple days ago and I'm having serious issues with him. He's 9 months old but he's deathly afraid of new things, especially new people including me. I visited him a couple times at his foster home. They lived in the country and he had a wide area for doing whatever he wanted along with 6 other dogs. I, on the other hand, live in the city with only a good sized yard.

 

I felt he was relatively comfortable with the lady taking care of him at the foster house, but not 100% even after 5 months of foster care. You can kind of imagine how he feels of myself. Every time I approach him, he backs up into a corner or behind a car. He's too scared to go inside the house, as he has made himself "comfortable" inside my garage. I was able to get close enough to clip a lead onto his collar with the intention to teach him how to walk on it around the backyard. He hated it so much that he wiggled his head out of his collar and found a way out of the yard. Luckily he came back later that night.

 

The only way I can lure him out of his corner is to drop food in front of him gradually luring him out, though he still won't come closer than a couple feet from me. I currently can't give him a proper walk or a bath, which he needs after his night adventure. He won't do anything if people are around and the only chance of me approaching him is by getting on all fours and crawling towards him, but since the other day when we had our little leash "lesson", he's been even more afraid of me.

 

Neither me nor the foster family knows anything of his life prior to the rescue. All she told me was that him and his litter and mother were rescued from animal control in LA at 8 weeks old. He's been a rescue basically his whole life.

 

If anyone can give me advice or if you had a similar story become a success, please let me know. I understand this is a bad case and will take tons of time, but I would like to know if there's anything else I can do. I'll post the techniques I'm currently using below.

 

- avoid approaching him standing up (I'll either crawl on all fours or crouch and inch my way sideways)

- avoid eye contact (either face my back or my side to him only looking at him for brief moments at a time)

- let him get comfortable on his own (I try not to focus my attention on him for long periods of time)

- let him approach me (tossing his food gradually closer to me)

- do things in his presence but no attention towards him (daily chores of just working or sitting in the garage)

Again, any advice is much appreciated. I would at least like him to come inside the house and allow me to take him on walks without him freaking out.

[jvw]

Search "Kelso" on this site. Its a long thread but should help tremendously

[alligande]

What JVW said.. You will find the thread in adoptable dogs, Kelsos journey was amazing and should provide you inspiration and hope.

[Gloria Atwater]

Here is a direct link to that discussion. Best of luck with your sweet boy. He's come to good and loving hands.

KELSO Thread

~ Gloria

[waffles]

Just a quick thought, get a martingale collar for him so he can't ever back out of a collar again while out walking. He could easily get lost forever or hit by a car. A step in harness could work too but will be more difficult to get on him at this point.

 

It's only been a couple of days So I would just continue to be patient and go slow. It sounds like you already have a good list of things to do/work on. Take it day by day.

 

This yahoo group is supposed to be great:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/shy-k9s/info

[dereklum]

Thanks for the responses! I actually bought a harness today. If I can get a hold of him, he doesn't struggle much. Only some urinating out of fear, but do you suggest forcing him upon a harness and leash? This would be the only way I can take him outside to do his business and explore. My only fear is that this will traumatize him further.

 

I'm also currently reading Kelso's journey. It's quite amazing and heart touching.

[NJSwede]

Usual disclaimer: I'm not an expert like some of the other folks on this site, but I figure I'd weigh in anyway...

 

The dog we adopted thee months ago had similar problems, although not as severe as in your case. I had to more or less whisper commands to her, or she would wet herself and get on her back, reduced to rubble. She seemed very scared of men in particular. We had a big and jolly plumber doing some work in our house and when he approached her in a friendly manner, she got completely frozen with with fear and peed all over the floor. Some person (most likely a man), must have treated her badly in her past life!

 

The cure in our case was time and space. She would slowly approach me and I would treat her very gently to gain her trust. Once we could interact without her shutting down (this took a couple of weeks), we played some simple games and did some basic obedience with lots of treats an praise. I think this showed her that we could interact in a safe way and that she could trust that I wouldn't hurt her.

 

Now, a few months later, we have a great relationship and we enjoy walks together and learning tricks (I'm currently working on the "pick out toys by name"-trick).

 

I had the same experience with a rescued and badly abused Boxer when I was a young adult. Extremely scared of men and a food guarder on top of that. I actually got bitten once, but we ended up being great friends in the end. Same strategy there: Lots of space and time. Whatever you do, don't rush it!

 

I guess all the usual rules apply as well: Use a soft tone, avoid direct eye contact, avoid hovering over the dog, reward progress generously.

 

As for the collar, Border Collies have pretty narrow heads and collars slip over their heads easily (ask me how I know this...). On our walks, I use one of those no-pull-harnesses (putting on flame retardant suite, as I'm sure this is not Kosher in some circles), which works great. Our trainer advised me to get a hunting collar, which seems to work out pretty well.

[JohnLloydJones]

Elsewhere on these boards, Donald has written about his work with Fly. The context is totally different, but the keywords he uses "Patience, Persistence, understanding" are valid far beyond the limited topic he posted about.

 

Your initial task is to build up trust. Talk gently to him; kind words, even when he doesn't understand them, are soothing. When you are able to to sit by him, let him get used to your presence; your smell; your touch. A soft, gentle massage is relaxing (google "Tellington touch" to get the idea).

If new things are scary, familiar things are less so; follow a routine, so he knows what is happening. With Taff half ear (from the same sorry puppy mill as Kelso), I sat beside him and stroked him gentle as I said good night. In the morning, I did the same while saying good morning. For three months, he turned his head away to tell me leave me alone". Then gradually, he began to lift his head up and towards me to accept my greeting.

Find something that he enjoys. A ball; a toy; a rope; anything that gets his interest. Use it to build trust and then, very gradually, to extend his zone of comfort and draw him into new territory.

 

As an aside, I wonder how a dog like this was adopted out. I obviously know nothing of the circumstances, but from the OP, I feel that he wasn't ready to adopted out -- at least to a home so different from what he was used to.

[dereklum]

I appreciate all the replies and suggestions! Thanks everyone. In response to John Lloyd Jones, I believe that he wouldn't have gotten better if not adopted. From my understanding, he was in foster care for five months (he is about 9 months now), all of which he was never trained anything except potty training nor was he socialized with people. I might be wrong, but if this continued, I believe his case could be worse.

 

On another note, I'll be taking things slowly add I have been doing. I've also been making it a habit to just hang out in his presence. Although he guess and cannot see me, he will know I'm there. Also with the occasional treat tossing.

 

My question to those with similar cases, do you wait until they have built some trust in you before taking them on a leash?

[JohnLloydJones]

My question to those with similar cases, do you wait until they have built some trust in you before taking them on a leash?

I normally take fosters on leash walks right from the beginning, but I have a (not so) secret advantage. My resident female, Senneca, is on a coupler with the new dog. She is awesome at showing new dogs the way and we get leash walking down in the first day or two.

In your case, I would try leash walking in small steps. Each time, attempting to go a little bit more. In the beginning, even just a few steps may be enough; build up gradually and praise in a calm voice for every increment.

 

Again, I know nothing of the circumstances, but our rescue expects the foster family to help build a dog up ready for adoption and if the foster home is unable to do that, they will step in with assistance. I am thankful that he has found a home who is motivated to help him.

[dereklum]

Yeah it seems almost obvious I would think. That's a good idea as well. The only reason why I ask is because I can't take him out to do his business. I mean I don't mind cleaning up after him, but soon I fear that it'll become a habit.

 

I think tonight I'm going to leave the leash attached to him. Let him know that it's not a threat, then maybe after a few days, I'll start putting pressure on the leash for short periods of time, gradually increasing the pressure and time, but more so time of the leash in my hand. Hopefully this eventually works out. Any thoughts on this? Although I did read somewhere that it's not good to leave the leash while he's sleeping. Is this true?

[GentleLake]

I don't see where leaving the leash on him while he's sleeping would be a problem unless he's somewhere where he can get it caught on something.

 

If it's traumatic for him to have you put the leash on, it could be better to leave it on and let him drag it.

 

I know he's in the garage, but is he in a crate or otherwise blocked into a small area? That would probably be best.

[denice]

I have found dogs like this that are scared and hide have such a hard time and I feel bad for them. I have found one simple thing that works great. Bring him in the house to whatever room you are in, carry him if you have to. Tie the leash to a table leg or something That he cant move or pull over and go about your life normally. I would talk to him occasionally but dont make a big deal of anything. IF you are making a meal and eating just have him there, if you are watching tv reading a bood have him there. It teaches him to deal with things in a non forceful way but also doesnt cauddle him and doesn't reinforce his thinking that he needs to run and escape. I think the are scred, then escape to a cate or under something and feel relieved so you are reinforceing this behavior. You want him to learn hat it is fine to be with you and I have seen great success with this given time. He will come to you on his own and not need to be pulled along on a leash. crateing is great but it only teaches him to be in a crate. THe dogs see this very differently and you have to give him time to sort it out

 

Hope he gets more comfortable every day

[D'Elle]

Hello dereklum, I am the person who had Kelso. If I can be of assistance to you in any way, please do not hesitate to ask me here or PM me and I will do what I can.

 

The most important thing to remember is that it will take time. Tiny, tiny baby steps are required in order to have success in introducing something new. It doesn't matter how long it takes. Let the dog have his own pace. Do not put pressure on him. Have faith in his process and timing; it is different from yours. Let him have a safe place to be. Above all. don't rush him.

 

I would recommend at this point that you carry him into the house and then just let him find a safe place in a corner or under a table (for Kelso it was the laundry room) and let him be there. spend as much time as you can just sitting on the floor with him, reading a book or something, not touching him or necessarily even talking to him.

 

I would not recommend tying him to a table leg. If he is that scared, he won't be moving around anyway. Just hang out, nearby but not so close it causes him discomfort. Don't worry about walks or baths yet.

 

B e aware that this process may take months, may take years, may take weeks. It doesn't matter. If you are committed to this dog the amount of time it takes is irrelevant.

Thanks for taking this dog. You may find, as I did, that it is one of the most rewarding thing you ever do.

I think that my work with Kelso was the best thing I ever did in my life and wish I could do it again for another dog.

May we please see a picture of him?

What is his name?

 

(to gentlelake, thanks for your PM suggesting that I read this thread. :-) )

[dereklum]

Thanks for all the help guys. It really means a lot. Hes made himself pretty comfortable in a crate in the garage. I'll try bringing him inside the house today.

 

A few questions though: how do you take him outside to go to the bathroom if not done on the leash? I can't let him roam on his own since he's found ways out of the yard. And do you think it would be too traumatic if I gave him a bath anyways? He's really dirty from when he got out of the yard and from urinating on himself out of fear.

[dereklum]

Oh and pictures will be posted later today as well as a few things that MIGHT indicate progress

[D'Elle]

Just my opinion, but if you can stand not to bathe him, don't.

 

When Kelso was first with me he would not/could not walk. I carried him out to the yard and stood with him while he did his "bathroom". I suggest you carry the dog out, but have a leash on him in case he should try to bolt.

[dereklum]

Here is the infamous Dexter (currently named Duncan, but I want to change his name to Dexter so that's what I've been calling him)

 

 

So some potential progress that I've noticed was that the other morning, I went to check on him in the garage. I looked through the door leading to the garage from the house and saw him standing in the middle. He saw me and went off into some corner, so I thought. We are currently blocking off the house with a laundry basket, but leaving the door open so he knows what we're doing and such but can't come in yet. I crouched down and went behind the laundry basket and to my surprise, I saw his head peek around the side of the basket. He knew I was there and couldn't help but think that he was ACTUALLY curious as to where I was. This was the first time he actually did any kind of approaching on his own.

 

Last night I was cleaning his urine off the floor next to his crate while he was in one of his corners hiding from me. As I'm on my knees wiping the floor, I see him trot passed me back to his crate. This is also the first time he, on his own, got up and moved out of his corner with me present.

 

I'm not sure if this is actual progress in his course of opening up since both times were just brief, but I'd like to think so.

Just my opinion, but if you can stand not to bathe him, don't.

 

When Kelso was first with me he would not/could not walk. I carried him out to the yard and stood with him while he did his "bathroom". I suggest you carry the dog out, but have a leash on him in case he should try to bolt.

 

Was Kelso scared of you touching him? I noticed that if I reach in to touch Dexter, he'll shy away. He doesn't seem to mind me walking close to him though. One of his favorite hiding spots is under one of the cars that doesn't get moved often, so sometimes I'll walk behind him or next to him and he doesn't seem to mind, but if I reach my hand down, he'll move away from me. I can even get so close as to give him a tap with my foot and he won't move. It's only my hand that he's scared of, unless I have food in my hand, though he won't eat it or sniff it.

[GentleLake]

Oh, he looks so sweet! These shy guys just melt my heart.

 

I do think the fact that he's able to move around a little bit in your presence is encouraging, and a sign of progress. Let's hope these baby steps keep coming, but don't be discouraged if you find it's one step forward and 2 steps back. That's often the way things go.

 

I can't wait till you're able to take a picture of handsome Dexter with his ears forward.

 

And I think the name change is a good thing . . . a new life deserves a new name, especially when the old life wasn't all that great.

 

roxanne

[dereklum]

Speaking of moving around on his own, as I'm typing this message, Dexter is slowly and cautiously inching his way towards his food bowl which is only a few feet away from me. It's dinner time and he's hungry, but the fact that he's going to be only a few feet away from me is amazing as he's doing this all on his own. He's come out and went back a few times already, but JUST NOW he made it all the way to his bowl and started eating. A few arm movements and some loud noises from inside the house sent him back to his corner so I'm pretty sure he had his eyes on me the whole time, but that was a big step I think. I'm so proud of him right now and have just gained an enormous amount of hope. I think it's going to work out.

[GentleLake]

Yaaaay!!! That is a big step for him, and hunger is a great motivator.

 

It sounds to me like you're really dedicated to making this work, and your patience will pay off in the end. Every time he succeeds in doing something, even if it seems like just a tiny something, and nothing bad happens he's learning that you're not scary after all. I suspect he'll learn to trust you, even if it takes a while, and even if there are times he backslides and things scare him again.

 

This is awesome, Derek! I'm so happy you took a chance on this shy boy who needed someone just like you to help him learn that life is good.

 

Keep up the great work! And thank you for adopting him.

[D'Elle]

Yes, those are very significant and good steps forward for Dexter.

Kelso was afraid of everything when he came, including me touching him. So when I had to pick him up I just did it. I moved slowly but not at a creeping pace, and I was firm and very matter-of-fact in my movements, all the while talking to him in a low, calm, cheerful and confident voice.

Dex is showing curiosity, which is a huge forward step.

Another thing I did with Kelso is I sat with him while he ate. The food bowl got closer and closer to me as days went by, but only by about an inch per day. No rushing.

 

If he is less afraid of your hands when they have food, then approach him with food when you are going to pick him up to go outside, but fade the food out when he starts to be more comfortable with your presence.

 

It is true that progress may be, probably will be, one or 2 steps forward and then one or 2 steps back again. He may even regress at some point right back to how he is now, but it will not be permanent.....just part of the process. It will go like this for a while until one day it will be all forward movement.

 

He is so sweet looking!

Poor guy. But he will get better and learn that to be a dog is a good thing. An important thing is to focus on progress and not on feeling sorry for the dog, and I sense that you already have a good handle on that. You will do fine with this dog, and he is lucky to have you.

[alligande]

I have no advice, but wish you well on your journey and thank you for adopting a dog that has challenges.

[dereklum]

Thank you all for the encouragement! It makes me kind of excited about the journey.

 

This morning for breakfast, I did the same as last night and had him come to his food which was next to me. I'm happy to say that it took him SIGNIFICANTLY less time than it did last night. I also attached a few photos I snapped of him on his way. Also this time he was way more focused on his food while he was eating rather than focused on what I was doing. There was almost no reaction to any of my movements while he was eating.

 

On a side note, I've got a question for everyone; what're your favorite chew toys? I think Dexter is just starting to get really comfortable in the garage and he's finding his own things to rip apart. This morning it was a tissue box. I gave him a wooden stick I bought at PetCo and give him rawhide donuts (which he goes through like nothing), but I think he's getting bored of them already.

[GentleLake]

My dogs love the cow hooves you can get at the pet stores.

 

Maybe he'd like a Nylabone? My dogs have never been crazy about them, but I've had fosters that have loved them.

 

Don't get the cooked cow bones from the pet stores. They can break teeth on them. After you've got him going to the bathroom outside, you might look at the supermarket for beef knuckle bones. Just give them to him raw. Don't get marrow bones, as they can cause teeth breakage, too. Th reason I recommend waiting till you can take him out easily is that the raw bones might cause loose stools till he gets used to them, and you don't want to have to clean up after that in the garage.

 

Great progress! I'm glad you're excited about the journey. It'll be worth it.