Genetically predisposed to house breaking?

[Mark Billadeau]

Bette's pups are now 4 weeks old (yes I know we owe photos but life has gotten in the way lately). For about a week now Renee has been letting the pups out of their xpen into the mudroom to explore and play (a great opportunity to pee & poop). Many of the pups are now starting to come to the wire to see us when we walk by and some are even appear to be standing in front of the wire wanting to get out. Last night I go woke up by a pup whining and then almost screaming. When I went to see what was up this pup was pacing back and forth in front of the wire whining. The other pups were sleeping, nursing, or playing with each other. When I picked up the fussing pup it settled for a moment and then started squirming so I set it down in the mudroom. The pup then wandered off to poop. I cleaned up and put the pup back which was now calm and quiet.

 

 

 

Why didn’t the pup simply go in the xpen; that is where this pup has been going in the past? Could this pup have a cleanliness gene?

 

Mark

[Sue R]

I'll take that pup.

 

On the topic, doesn't there have to be a time/stage when pups feel the need to keep their "den" clean and dry? Maybe he's just a bit more advanced than the others in that aspect. Never having raised pups, I'm really clueless but that makes some sense to me.

[Mark Billadeau]

Thanks to Emily I do have some puppy photos.

 

The milk bar is open

 

Boots are fun

 

Puppy pile

 

Life's tough

[Shoofly]

When Jet came home as a 7 week old puppy, she was completely, totally housebroken and trustworthy. Her litter was whelped and grew up in an area where they could totter outside at will, and i think that's why she was so good so early.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

When Jet came home as a 7 week old puppy, she was completely, totally housebroken and trustworthy. Her litter was whelped and grew up in an area where they could totter outside at will, and i think that's why she was so good so early.

 

 

It's one of the reasons my husband gets so upset when we have puppies. You always have one complainer and once they can get out of the box or pen they tend to want to poop away. Meaning that you get 4 or 5 piles in the kitchen instead of the laundry room on the bedding. People told me that both of my litters were pretty trained when they went home. They were much better when I could run directly outside for them to potty.

[Olivia]

Griffin, my well bred ABCA boy, was trying to dig his way out of his kennel/x-pen at 4.5 weeks to potty. His breeder said they were all trying to do it by 5 weeks. They all hated to 'go' in their area. By the time I brought him home at 6 weeks he would tell me when he needed to go by crying and going to the door. Of course he couldn't hold it for long but he would sure try.

 

I think well bred puppies and well kept puppies just act like this.

 

Olivia

[Mark Billadeau]

When Renee brought Bette home she would go bump our coats when she needed to go out.

I am pleased that this pup (and probably others) wants to go elsewhere to poop without any real training.

I am not surprised when pups are raised where they can go away from the group to poop that they are house broken easily; but I'm not sure I would say these pups have this opportunity.

[stockdogranch]

I usually move pups from the whelping box (in the bedroom) to a double xpen arrangement in the living room at 3-ish weeks. At one end of the xpen I have a large "potty box" (maybe three inches or so tall) that they have to climb up into--filled with shredded newspapers. The pups seem to understand what it's for, and, yes, usually by 4-5 weeks most are using the potty box for their business. A few don't always make it quite into the box, but if they miss, they will go just in front of it,

A

[Mark Billadeau]

I like your dbl xpen arrangement; I wish we had room to set it up. With our kitchen being remodeled there isn't room for one. The xpen for the pups, 3'x8' area for stacked dog crates, and freezer are in the second kitchen (vinyl flooring) which we are using for washing dishes and food prep. The rest of the 1st floor has the original heart pine floors; the pups are not allowed on the antique flooring.

[scomona]

What cute puppies!! I like the boot picture.

[Shetlander]

Yes, cute, cute puppies. Quinn was housebroken when he came to me at 9 weeks. It was the saving grace of what otherwise seemed to be a coyote puppy. I couldn't believe it. With my other puppies (all very bright of course! ), I could see the blocks fall into place somewhere between 3 and 4 months where they truly got what was expected. Until Quinn, I didn't think a younger puppy was at a point of cognitive deveopment to fully understand the concepts of housebreaking.

[denice]

I think it is pretty normal for pups between 4 to 5 weeks old to start figuring out when they have to go and want to do it elsewhere. This is the age I start making trips outside routinely with my pups. We go to the same area of the yard and they learn to potty then have play time. We go out first thing in the morning, right after meals, when they wake up from naps, right before bed time and I get up in the middle of the night if they cry. It only takes a couple weeks and they do really well and begin to sleep through the night if fed early enough. The door outside needs to be close to the pen because they can't wait long at that age. I love that age when the pups begin to develop their personalities.

 

Denice

[Liz P]

As a pup Freya had one accident, and it was totally my fault. She was a dream to house break. When she had her pups they were already using a single corner for their potty area at the tender age of 2 weeks old. At 4 weeks old I moved them to a double x pen with a potty box. It was one of those plastic under the bed storage containers, so it was large enough to fit several pups needing to go at one, or that one puppy that likes to walk as it goes. I filled it with wood pellets for pellet stoves. It absorbed the odor very nicely. If I had access to cheap wood shavings I would have used those instead.

 

By 5 weeks old all the pups were using the box consistantly and clean up just meant scooping the box and sweeping up any scattered wood pellets. Several pups went to people who owned a business and wanted to take their pups to work with them. They set up potty boxes in case they were on the phone with a client and couldn't get away to attend to a fussing puppy. They all reported that their pups never had an accident. They used the potty box for a few weeks then transitioned to full house breaking.

[Jumpin Boots]

Sorry, not to hijack, but you and Journey are cruel...I now have the worse case of puppy-itis...I think I better call in sick to work

[Mark Billadeau]

If I had access to cheap wood shavings I would have used those instead.

We tried wood shavings but the dust bothered my asthma so much that my rib cage ached from coughing.

[Lenajo]

We've always used a potty box - a 3x3 plastic pan made from the bottom of an irrigation tank. At 3 weeks we attach it too the whelping box. By 4 weeks pups are 90% reliable with the pan moved slightly away from the whelping box. by 6 weeks you can have the pan in a corner of a whole room and they will go to it.

 

It's nice to take them outside and if the weather permits we do so. But if we can't, they don't learn to soil their bedding or play areas.

 

Mark I also have reactive airway and unscented aspen shavings (from Petsmart) are fine. I can't use pine, or heaven help me - that darn cedar.

 

Also worth considering - I cover good flooring with remnent carpet, then a waterproof liner (Journey used shower curtains - those were great), then newspaper, then DriDek. If a puppy did have an accident you just changed the newspaper.

[Mark Billadeau]

I like many of the ideas for expanding the puppy pen area; however, with floor plan of our house and having things in boxes during the remodeling we just don't have floor space. Once the kitchen remodel is complete (perhaps today!) we can strip out the old kitchen cabinets and sink in the room were we currently have the pups providing us with plenty of space for a dbl xpen on vinyl flooring.

 

While we unpack our kitchen supplies we are freeing up plenty of cardboard and packing paper that we can use for the puppy pen.

 

Renee has taken the pups out 2 or 3x so far, each time they started shivering within a few minutes (because the wind picked up). Our weather has been changing back and forth giving us frozen (and slightly white covered) ground or mud; not ideal conditions for the pups.

[Rave]

I think all pups are genetically predisposed to not wanting to soil their den, which becomes evident once they reach a certain age if given the opportunity.

 

One thing about breeders who breed frequently is they've figured out how to do it right. I've gotten to watch several litters born and raised by webcam and have seen their setups. It's common to use a pan with some kind of pellets in it for a puppy litter box within their area. A quick google search showed these to be compressed wood pellets used for wood burning stoves.

[Liz P]

Renee has taken the pups out 2 or 3x so far, each time they started shivering within a few minutes (because the wind picked up). Our weather has been changing back and forth giving us frozen (and slightly white covered) ground or mud; not ideal conditions for the pups.

 

When I raised Freya's litter I was living in a very old house (200+ years), so the rooms were tiny. There was no space on the main floor for a double puppy pen. At 4 weeks they moved to the basement. It was January and the temps outside were 20F at best, so the basement was maybe 45 or 50F. The play pen was set up in the boiler room on top of an old area rug with a heavy plastic sheet over that. The pups had an insulated dog house with warm blankets, warm blankets outside the dog house with a heat lamp as well as blankets without a heat lamp. They always seemed to sleep on the bare floor as far from the heat lamps as possible. They started to go outside at 6 weeks old and never had a problem with the cold. I think it is just a matter of acclimatizing.

 

I've got asthma and the wood pellets didn't bother me in the least. I am not sure what kind of wood it was though.

 

This is the smaller potty box we used in the kitchen when the pups were let loose to play on the main floor. It was about 1/3 the size of the one that stayed in the puppy pen. BTW, that is puppy food that got scattered when the cat moved in to claim his share. You can see who was in charge.

[Ooky]

What cute puppy pictures! I keep dreaming about puppies lately but in my waking hours am pretty immune to puppyitis from worrying about what the heck I'll do when my own, "biological puppy" is here!

 

When I had rats, I used a bedding available at petstores called CareFresh. Rats get a respiratory infection called mycoplasmosis and the oils present in wood shavings really shorten their lives and worsen their infections. As for the stove wood pellets, I'd worry about what sort of chemical treatments/glues those had in them, but I am a chemical-phobe. I assume this would work for puppies!

[Journey]

My set up has been more than ideal (thanks Wendy!)! I have their pen backed up to the sliding glass door and the "potty box" filled about 6 inches with "Aspen shavings" is back there as well. The floor has a piece of remnant carpet a 12 x 12 area covered, then the shower curtain, then paper, then topped with dri deck. The pups are NEVER soiled or messy and when they roam the house they bee line for the potty box when they need to. With them backed up to the door they have a visual to watch when they are up. At 2 weeks they started using the pb and then I gradually moved it back further from the whelping box. Now when we get up they run to the door (and have been for weeks) and everyone runs outside. The pb is still used when they are in during the day and at night. All are rotationally crated at night but those in the puppy pen use the box if need be. Now they go in the area where the big dogs go in the yard. So, yes, they do want to keep themselves clean and all it takes is a little creative work to help them succeed!

[flyer]

Interesting topic. My Colt peed in the house maybe four times in the first 48 hrs. he was in our home. Never again. He was housebroken at 7 wks. His breeder did have a separate area for the pups to do their business.

 

Bea, on the other hand took almost 4 wks.!!! AAagh. I was so frustrated. She would never poo in the house and was only peeing once or twice a day because I was so diligent with getting her out a lot, but she was not getting the concept of no pees at all. Still has the occasional accident at 14 wks.! When I picked her up at the farm at 8 wks. old she was in one big whelping box and the pups would do their business where the slept. Bea also ate her own poo for about 4 wks. I helped her out of that one.

 

So I think any breeder who makes the second space is a saint and contributes to a dog's quick potty training.

 

Colt is a much more meticulous dog all around though, so I do also think his nature comes into play.

[Lenajo]

What cute puppy pictures! I keep dreaming about puppies lately but in my waking hours am pretty immune to puppyitis from worrying about what the heck I'll do when my own, "biological puppy" is here!

 

When I had rats, I used a bedding available at petstores called CareFresh. Rats get a respiratory infection called mycoplasmosis and the oils present in wood shavings really shorten their lives and worsen their infections. As for the stove wood pellets, I'd worry about what sort of chemical treatments/glues those had in them, but I am a chemical-phobe. I assume this would work for puppies!

 

I've looked at that bedding closely and I don't feel it would be safe for puppies. The texture is something like crumbled toilet paper and I could very easily see puppies swallowing, choking, or being impacted intestinally with it.

[Ooky]

Ahh, these are things I wouldn't know, not ever having had a box of puppies (gosh, that sounds cute). My rats never ate it (although they ate a lot of other stuff), but puppies are different. I do know it was good for respiratory issues, is all!

[Liz P]

You can buy chemical free wood pellets sold at feed stores (horse people use it for bedding).

 

I never had a problem with pups trying to eat them, but they had plenty of food, bones and toys to munch on.