JaderBug Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 I don't know what to do anymore- I am in desperate need of suggestions. Jade's growling at outside noises has ceased to get better, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's getting worse, she’s now starting to bark instead of just growling. She is scared of these noises- her ears and head go down, her tail goes between her legs, and she comes to me to hide in between/behind my legs. I live in a trailer park with her, so there’s lots of activity going on outside. This is my latest attempt. For the last two weeks, when she growls at something, I have been enthusiastically saying ‘Jade! Where’s your Frisbee?! Go find it! Get your Frisbee!” She’ll perk up a little and trot off excitedly to go find her toy, but it’s not preventing the behavior to begin with, and she’ll often growl/bark with the toy in her mouth when she comes back. For the most part, I can’t tell what she’s scared of, and I can’t recreate the noises, as most of the time I can’t hear them, or predict them, to begin with. I’ve tried everything else I can think of… saying “No!” when she does it, crating her when she does it, etc. but I know those don’t work because she is scared. I want to help her, she's looking for protection when she comes to me. I know this is hard for her, but I haven’t found an effective way to communicate with her. Does anyone have any more suggestions? Has anyone else had to overcome this problem of the noise phobia, and been successful with it? I am at my wit’s end… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 I live in an apartment with a dog that is very alert to noises. What has helped us the most is to acknowledge the noise(s) and actively investigate them (i.e. Maggie barks, I ask "what is it? Show me" and we go look out the window or I check the door together). Maggie feels that I've checked the situation and have determined it's under control and that's enough for her. The first few weeks there were a lot of things I checked out, but now it only needs to happen every once in a blue moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 I live in an apartment with a dog that is very alert to noises. What has helped us the most is to acknowledge the noise(s) and actively investigate them (i.e. Maggie barks, I ask "what is it? Show me" and we go look out the window or I check the door together). Maggie feels that I've checked the situation and have determined it's under control and that's enough for her. The first few weeks there were a lot of things I checked out, but now it only needs to happen every once in a blue moon. Did she ever just get over it? or does she still struggle with it? I know there's no quick fix, but how long did it take for her to not respond to the noises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mboat7 Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 I have a dog with noise phobia. I have found medication from the vet helpful. In addition, behavioral therapy is very helpful. I do positive training with treats. Usually, we do obedience training or agility training with noises in the background. Start off with barely audible noises and gradually increase the volume over a period of weeks. Limit the training sessions to about 10 minutes at a time. I know there are tapes of agility ring noises. There are probably other tapes/CDs as well. Mel I don't know what to do anymore- I am in desperate need of suggestions. Jade's growling at outside noises has ceased to get better, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's getting worse, she’s now starting to bark instead of just growling. She is scared of these noises- her ears and head go down, her tail goes between her legs, and she comes to me to hide in between/behind my legs. I live in a trailer park with her, so there’s lots of activity going on outside. This is my latest attempt. For the last two weeks, when she growls at something, I have been enthusiastically saying ‘Jade! Where’s your Frisbee?! Go find it! Get your Frisbee!” She’ll perk up a little and trot off excitedly to go find her toy, but it’s not preventing the behavior to begin with, and she’ll often growl/bark with the toy in her mouth when she comes back. For the most part, I can’t tell what she’s scared of, and I can’t recreate the noises, as most of the time I can’t hear them, or predict them, to begin with. I’ve tried everything else I can think of… saying “No!” when she does it, crating her when she does it, etc. but I know those don’t work because she is scared. I want to help her, she's looking for protection when she comes to me. I know this is hard for her, but I haven’t found an effective way to communicate with her. Does anyone have any more suggestions? Has anyone else had to overcome this problem of the noise phobia, and been successful with it? I am at my wit’s end… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Maggie does not have true noise phobia and from your description I don't know that Jade necessarily does either - phobias involve much more severe reactions other than just barking or growling from what I understand. What does she do when she hears similar noises outside of the house? I consider Maggie "normal" for all intents and purposes; I want her to react to abnormal things outside the house since I am often by myself at home. Out in the real world she rarely reacts with more than a slight startle response to loud noises (she's a therapy dog so this is not an uncommon occurrence). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maya's mom Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 My 6 month old has a similar behavior. She is great outside, on walks, etc. Rarely barks or growls at anything she sees or hears. Our problem was, when she was in the house, and heard something she couldn't SEE, she would bark non-stop. We tried a number of things as well, and what has worked for us is the shaker can method. We took a couple soda cans, filled them with a few coins, then put duct tape acorss the top. We placed them throughout the house so they are near by. When she started to bark, we would shake the can to startle her and stop the bark, and said "Quiet!". When she was quiet, we praised her highly. "Good quiet", etc......Now, she responds to just the verbal comman, or occasionally just seeing me pick up the can stops her! I hope this helps........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 http://www.fearfuldogs.com Look at Storm and Sound Phobias' I would seriously be looking for a vet to work with as far as meds (presuming you have ruled out any medical problems). You could also try to find a positive trainer that has experience in dealing w/ fear, noise phobias to help with behavior modification and, one morre thing come join the shy-k9s yahoo group. There's a link on the fearfuldogs site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 I remember those days! My dog would bark at e-ver-y noise he heard, at first. Twitchy, he was. Standing by the windows and growl-barking was his early life with me. He was a very fearful dog, but I'm not sure I'd say he had a phobia. It was more like the growling and barking were his default reaction to everything that made him scared. I did read about a protocol in a book early on - maybe a McConnell book (The Other End of the Leash?). It essentially involved calling my dog to me when he barked, saying "Eeeeenough," and then treating the minute he let go the growling/barking. I sat on my couch with tiny hot dog pieces for a very long time, as the commuters walked home from the train station. What this did was teach Buddy to associate "enough" with getting quiet, and also teach him that I wanted him to be quiet. He still alert-barks a lot, but he does seem to grasp that there's nothing to worry about. If I ask him if he wants his supper (or a toy, or his friend Lily), he's happy to leave the barking alone. I can quiet him when necessary, which is a blessing. I guess the difference between training and medicating is whether this is a true phobia, or just a behavior pattern that the dog has fallen into. Good luck! Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Thanks for all the advice and suggestions... I will start trying some new approaches to this problem. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Maggie barks, I ask "what is it? Show me" and we go look out the window or I check the door together). Maggie feels that I've checked the situation and have determined it's under control and that's enough for her. When Senneca alarm-barks, that's exactly what I do. "What is it?, Show me." when I look out, I tell her "It's OK" and praise her, "Good girl". She's done her job by getting me to look; she knows by my response that whoever it was isn't scary (mostly it's the neighbors) and she trots off with certain knowledge that, once again, the house is safe through her vigilance. The only time this doesn't work is when the cat from across the street is sitting on the front path, staring into the house. I swear the cat does it deliberately to taunt her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi Rachel, Has anything happened that has scared her where she is relating a consecence to the noise? Her reaction, "her ears and head go down, her tail goes between her legs, and she comes to me to hide in between/behind my legs" makes me think she is relating the noise to a punishment, we have had that when Indy our cattle dog male has gotten over excited and overstimulated and ran over one of our pups. For a while everytime Indy got geeked up the pup would go into hide mode, she eventually got over it when she gained the understanding that everytime he reved up did not mean she was going to get mowed over, though she best stay out of the way or get tough. I was careful to supervise their interaction to make sure the event did not repeat itself. Is it possible she was corrected harshly (in her mind) in the beginning for her alert and now she is fearing the correction when she finds herself alerting? Another thought, when she comes to you try just walking away and go about your business, you reacting to her may be compounding the situation. I may be way off base, but it wouldn't hurt to try it. BTW, what part of Iowa are you from? If your close by or willing to travel your welcome to come join us for our Corn Roast coming up July 6th. Regardless if you are interested in stock work or not there will others here that are bringing their dogs just to be out in the country and get used to new people, places and things. Deb Alden, IA (1 hour north of Des Moines) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 BTW, what part of Iowa are you from? If your close by or willing to travel your welcome to come join us for our Corn Roast coming up July 6th. Regardless if you are interested in stock work or not there will others here that are bringing their dogs just to be out in the country and get used to new people, places and things. Deb- I am living in Ames right now- I have actually spoken to you several times via e-mail (rwitte12@iastate.edu), a few times about meeting Marc Christopher because Jade is a granddaughter of one of Marc's dogs, and a couple of times about IHDA stuff in general. Jade has been taking some herding lessons from James in Williams, though we haven't gotten up there much lately due to weather and my own schedule getting in the way. I was definately considering coming up to your Corn Roast- what time does it start? I'll have to see if anything has already been scheduled by my family, but I'd like to make it up there. As far as Jade's fearful behavior, she has been met harshly in the past with her alerting. It was just one of the many things I tried, and I learned quickly that it didn't work at all- I regret it and I'm working hard to fix it. I will definately try your suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 This is not noise phobia, although it may have something to do with anxiety. I had problems with Solo and alarm barking at my old apartment building after one of my neighbors decided it was fun to let her dog fight with Solo through my door. She would let her dog attack my door and apparently thought it was amusing to listen to Solo raging on the other side of it. She stopped after I caught her doing it, but by that point it was too late. Previously Solo had ignored noises outside the door unless they were directly involved with the door itself (like someone knocking) but after that he would bark and growl at every dog that walked by. To deal with this I tried distracting him with a command in a cheery voice (not an angry voice) and then calling him to me for a treat reward. I would usually say "Look!" in a sharp but upbeat manner (sharp enough to get his attention) since "look" is a very well-ingrained behavior for him, and then clicking him when he made eye contact with me. I was able to abate the barking with this but not eliminate it. I would also throw treats at him whenever noises occurred outside the door if I could anticipate them before he reacted to them (he would usually not react until the dog/person was right outside the door, but I would hear them sooner, as they got off the elevator, etc.). Eventually I may have been able to get him back to his previous equilibrium (from before my neighbor began her stupid behavior) but I moved, so I do not know if I would have been able to totally eliminate the alarm barking. I do want SOME alarm barking from my dogs, but I don't want them to be hyped up and anxious about everything that happens outside. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 We will have things rolling sometime between 9 and 10 in the morning, we are not sure yet how many people will be here, we have a couple that are talking about staying over night and working Sunday too. Lesha Eggers was talking of coming up, she comes up here to work Molly, maybe you guys can car pool. You might want to give Marc a call and talk to him. How does James get a long wtih Jade? BTW, we are only 4 miles down the road from there, just go into Williams, turn on 4th street and go 3 miles east. We can see his barn from here. He used to train here. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexie Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 I've done something like Erin and John say for dealing with Molly's tendencies to bark at everything outside. Now she doesn't need us to look every time but is often satisfied if one of us just calmly says, "It's okay" or "Nothing to worry about" or something similar. A NILIF (nothing in life is free) program might also help. Jade may need reassurances that you are confident and capable at being in charge and taking care of her. NILIF is very simple, is not a negative training method, and mostly just lets the dog know that you expect things of her. Molly settled down a lot with barking, whining, and a number of other behaviors as she grew more confident and secure with the house rules. For a long time, she was a very different dog at home alone with me during the day and on weekends and evenings when my husband was also home. My husband wasn't as consistent with responses to her unnecessary alarm barks, often whined incessently, and just generally didn't stick to the rules consistently. That confused Molly and made her behavior more unstable. In contrast, she knew what the deal was when she was alone with me. She'd get potty walks that didn't turn into plays so didn't ask for extras, she knew whining got her nowhere, and she knew I checked out any worrisome noises and let her know when they were under control. After DH and I had a few long talks and agreed to the rules, Molly has really turned around in the evenings as well. The first little while she was worse, trying to get him to give in, but then I just crated her calmly as necessary. But before long he could see the differences in her behavior and now he generally sticks to the rules. I just wanted to mention the bigger picture, because if you have that on top of the noise issues, you may benefit from a little tightening up overall. Molly also has a working breeding and I think that may make BCs even more in need of clear guidelines than some other dogs are. She needed to know how to get attention and how to make us happy. Once she learned that and the boundaries within which we expect her to live, she settled in and functioned better. Good luck with Jade. I hope you are able to find a solution that works for both your sakes. Oh, putting music on might help for a while. It will cover more of the noises so she will hear fewer of them. That should lighten your training burden and help her be less afraid. Be sure to give her plenty of positive attention when she is good so she knows you aren't upset about the barking. Use an indifferent, confident, matter-of-fact tone when responding to the barking. Comforting makes the fear worse and a harsh tone will make her more afraid. If you can start a play session before the noisiest times, that should help too. You can check out the noise if she barks then go right back to playing with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 A NILIF (nothing in life is free) program might also help. Jade may need reassurances that you are confident and capable at being in charge and taking care of her. NILIF is very simple, is not a negative training method, and mostly just lets the dog know that you expect things of her. Molly settled down a lot with barking, whining, and a number of other behaviors as she grew more confident and secure with the house rules. I've actually done quite a bit of the NILIF stuff, before I even knew there was a name to it. Jade never gets anything without earning it first- she has to sit patiently before she gets served food or water, goes out the door, gets into the car, etc. and never gets a treat without doing a command or trick (usually a series of tricks). The TV is usually on and she still seems to be able to hear the outside noises through that- not to mention we have an unusually loud air conditioner that has been on quite a bit lately. I'll try to start checking out what she's hearing. It's hard to direct her to what she's hearing when she just runs to me for comfort- yesterday I was trying to get up and go see what she was looking at, she would mostly start circling around and try to figure out what I was doing, and for the most part she seemed unsatisfied with my actions. Is this typical? Will it take a little bit for us to figure each other out? I have another question... how could I use clicker training for this situation? I have a clicker, but Jade is not trained to it, nor am I completely sure how to use it. I get the general idea of it, but how could (can?) I incorporate a clicker into this alert behavior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexie Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 It'll take some time to figure each other out. Try talking to her while you do it. Ask her to show you what is wrong. At this point she is very nervous about everything relating to noise, so is probably nervous about what you will do. Clicker training might help her feel more confident about the whole thing. You could click to praise her for barking at things she should bark at and click in a quiet moment to help her learn to quiet when she shouldn't be barking. That's my guess anyway. You need to "charge" the clicker before you start using it--otherwise it will confuse her more. You want to give it positive associations by clicking then giving her treats. You may also want to train something benign to be sure she is really clear about it and comfortable before using it for such a sensitive issue. Good luck. It sounds like you are working really hard at doing everything you can to help her feel good about it. Sometimes it is hard to figure out what they are trying to tell you. Sincerely, Rebecca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I have another question... how could I use clicker training for this situation? I have a clicker, but Jade is not trained to it, nor am I completely sure how to use it. I get the general idea of it, but how could (can?) I incorporate a clicker into this alert behavior? This website has a good overview of clicker training. It's not hard to do but it's important to read up on it so that you do it right. Good luck! http://www.scallywagsdogs.com/click1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion318 Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 About noise phobia a good tip is you can try getting one of those sound effect cds (the ones that have like laser sounds, gun shots, chickens etc) And start playing it when he's eating. First off at the lowest audible setting, let it play along the various wierd sounds while he eats. Gradually over the days as he becomes used to them start bringing up the volume slowly (i mean over various sessions). Stop when he's able to tolerate them but your neighbours aren't P.S.: first post on the boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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