jdarling Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I think I need a edumacation. White Mountain Puppies Has anyone ever seen this site before? Ever talk to the breeder? Ever see their ads on puppyfind? We are expecting a prestigious litter December 15th out of AKC and ABCA registered KK SAM and White Mountain Lucy!! First time for this pair and we are expecting great things! Arthur Allen lineage times FOUR!!! Arthur Allen was the famous trainer, breeder, producer of Walt Disney movies using his famous border collies. Look him up on the computer for more information. If you would like to view the Walt Disney-Arthur Allen pedigrees, email your request! These puppies willbe more pricey because of the famous lineage. They will run $1200-$2000 depending on the markings of the puppies being the white puppies the most expensive. Contact us now for a look at our contract and to place your deposit to hold a puppy for you. Breeder of this litter will of course get the first pick. We currently have a few contracts available. What would be fun is wrapping up a picture of the puppy for a Christmas present! Puppies will be available the last week of January or first week of February! View both websites at:www.whitemountainpuppies.com and to view the parents go to www.whitemountain-jackrussells-bordercollies.com and click on "our border collies" You honestly will not find better quality Border Collies than this lineage!! View pedigrees on our website: www.whitemountainpuppies.com I inquired as to why the puppies were priced at $1200 and $2000, and mentioned that the Arthur Allen portion of the pedigrees is so far back, it was almost obsolete and that it only takes a couple of generations to screw up a good breeding (among many other issues I didn't bother addressing), and she responded and told me that it doesn't sound like I know this lineage at all because there are so few dogs with this line anymore. It's "very prestigious" and apparently that I don't know much about it. These dogs work her horses. I mentioned to her how dangerous that was, and she told me that she doesn't know what type of ranch skills I have but that is what they use their dogs for besides the sheep and cattle and such (that they don't currently have). She said that all of the "Arthur Allen breeders" she knows sells their pups for this much as well, and that I would be better off looking elsewhere. Ok ... am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I think I need a edumacation. White Mountain Puppies Has anyone ever seen this site before? Ever talk to the breeder? Ever see their ads on puppyfind? I inquired as to why the puppies were priced at $1200 and $2000, and mentioned that the Arthur Allen portion of the pedigrees is so far back, it was almost obsolete and that it only takes a couple of generations to screw up a good breeding (among many other issues I didn't bother addressing), and she responded and told me that it doesn't sound like I know this lineage at all because there are so few dogs with this line anymore. It's "very prestigious" and apparently that I don't know much about it. These dogs work her horses. I mentioned to her how dangerous that was, and she told me that she doesn't know what type of ranch skills I have but that is what they use their dogs for besides the sheep and cattle and such (that they don't currently have). She said that all of the "Arthur Allen breeders" she knows sells their pups for this much as well, and that I would be better off looking elsewhere. Ok ... am I missing something? I think you may, but I'd count myself durned lucky to have missed it if I were you. Who needs a Barnum & Bailey, I mean WALT DISNEY puppy anyhow. The mouse has not been a wonderful friend to dogs after all... Just ask any Dalmation owner - well, any Dalmation owner with a lick of sense - oh wait... hmmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sheesh. Hip Boots and a shovel wouldn't even begin to slog through the bullshyt on their website --- more like a biosuit and dozer. They must be smokin' some of that there funny tobaccy they grow out there to even begin to crank out the BS they do. Wonder what Uncle Arthur would think of his name bandied about like that. And the Carin terrier & Jack pups. Not only are they windbags of BS but I wonder if they made it to or thru the 8th grade. And the suckers --- oops, I mean puppy buyers --- doesn't sound like they're too much brighter themselves. @@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsADogsLyfe Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Jodi, you're never going to win with this type of person. They won't listen, they know more than you, you don't know anything etc. I do feel sorry for the poor chumps who don't know any better and will actually think they are getting these great "prestigious" Border Collies. PT Barnum was right, there is a sucker born every minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Who in their right minds would anyone pay $1,200-$2,000 for a Border Collie pup, when they can get a perfectly lovely BC from New England Border Collie Rescue (shameless plug) for an adoption fee of $250? If I had known about NEBCR before I bought Annie from a breeder, I would definitely have gone the adoption route; but then again, when I bought Annie, I was not very computer-literate (not that I have made much progress since then)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amc Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sheesh. What a puppy mill site. Should be used as a 'red flag' tutorial! The pedigree they posted doesn't even belong to either the sire or dam of their advertised "Arthur Allen" pups. Excuse me while I go throw up. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 So I'm a sucker and checked it out. I scrolled down and saw that the sire of one of their dams is "ranked 5th in cattle points--NATIONALLY (DOC)..." So of course I went to the USBCHA website and checked cattle points (I really didn't think I'd find any handler/dog there ranked 5th who would deal with these people), and see that Chester's Bandit dog is currently 5th, and there was no dog named Doc anywhere on the list. Whatever, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Wow... I got quite a deal when I bought my Rhett (quite a few dogs on her bottom side were bred by A. Allen) 14 years ago for $50- what a steal! (actually, it was a steal, but not because of her breeding ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 How interesting. You gotta know that it's going to be an awesome breeder when the website has no graphics other than crappy pictures of their dogs and puppies, there's a solid (or sparkling) background with size 72 font in different colors. There's something that says "You can definitely always find cheaper Jack Russell and Border Collie puppies, but are they the quality you want?" Umm, yes, probably! JDarling, have you made it your personal vendetta to hunt down bad breeders? Just curious. I understand doing so, but do you ever have any success? People who breed like this and rake in the money as they do won't usually be willing to change their ways or even see the error in their ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I won't buy another dog from Arthur Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I won't buy another dog from Arthur Allen. 'cause he's dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Dang, if only I had known that I could have sold Pip (my white dog) for way more than any of the others simply because of his color, I'd have never kept him! The charge more for that special white color shows an incredible cluelessness, since most working folks wouldn't touch a white dog with a 10 foot pole. Then again, most working dog folks wouldn't dream of paying $1,200-2,000 unless the dog was already well started.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I think I need a edumacation. White Mountain Puppies Has anyone ever seen this site before? Ever talk to the breeder? Ever see their ads on puppyfind? I inquired as to why the puppies were priced at $1200 and $2000, and mentioned that the Arthur Allen portion of the pedigrees is so far back, it was almost obsolete and that it only takes a couple of generations to screw up a good breeding (among many other issues I didn't bother addressing), and she responded and told me that it doesn't sound like I know this lineage at all because there are so few dogs with this line anymore. It's "very prestigious" and apparently that I don't know much about it. These dogs work her horses. I mentioned to her how dangerous that was, and she told me that she doesn't know what type of ranch skills I have but that is what they use their dogs for besides the sheep and cattle and such (that they don't currently have). She said that all of the "Arthur Allen breeders" she knows sells their pups for this much as well, and that I would be better off looking elsewhere. Ok ... am I missing something? Well, they can't spell == Very prestine markings! === and to me, "pristine" would mean that the pups has the more traditional tuxedo coat -- these cute little critters have all kinds of spots and rings (nothing wrong with that, BTW -- Brodie has two rings - one around his shoulders and the other around his haunches and he and Robin both have spots that are too big to be considered ticking.) I just hope the pups go to a caring home. Liz ETA - I was just talking with the pups breeder about how wonderfully my two nine month old pups are growing up - even tempered, healthy, smart, easy to handle and train, wonderful companions perfect in every way, really. If they start some kind of misbehavior, I find a correction that works and they adjust and generally don't repeat the behavior. (Brodie's teeth baring has calmed down now that we've identified the source of the trouble and Robin doesn't pick on him outside because he's figured out that they don't get to play if he does - Brodie was also dabbling in some herding behavior which has been corrected so they've gone back to being loving companions) She commented that it is the good work of the ABCA that is keeping Border Collies healthy. Even with the rescue Border Collies we've owned, we've never had any serious health problems or temperament issues that weren't solved with appropriate handling. I realize from other posts on this board that we've been fortunate in the dogs we've owned but all together the Border Collie is a nice solid breed and it is heartbreaking to see them marketed through such silliness, which compounds the problem because then the new owner wants to breed "to get their money back." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 ouuuuu I have a famous Walt Disney Arthur Allen dog!! Scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I've got a question.... OK, so ABCA won't take AKC registered dogs right? So couldn't ABCA pull registrations when these pups are registered with AKC? I'm wondering how this whole 'dual' registration can be promoted... (scratching my head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Or, a very well bred pup for $500? I tell you, the internet has been a BOOM for puppy breeders- and that term is perfect, in describing what is being put out Who in their right minds would anyone pay $1,200-$2,000 for a Border Collie pup, when they can get a perfectly lovely BC from New England Border Collie Rescue (shameless plug) for an adoption fee of $250? If I had known about NEBCR before I bought Annie from a breeder, I would definitely have gone the adoption route; but then again, when I bought Annie, I was not very computer-literate (not that I have made much progress since then)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 She said that all of the "Arthur Allen breeders" she knows sells their pups for this much as well, and that I would be better off looking elsewhere. Not pretending to be an expert on breeding, but it sounds to me that everybody would be better off looking elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Who in their right minds would anyone pay $1,200-$2,000 for a Border Collie pup, when they can get a perfectly lovely BC from New England Border Collie Rescue (shameless plug) for an adoption fee of $250? Or, a very well bred pup for $500? I tell you, the internet has been a BOOM for puppy breeders- and that term is perfect, in describing what is being put out I have to second both these comments, it is always a mystery to me how people fall for this. I have a friend who get their husky from the breeder that supplied the dogs to the film about the stranded sled dogs and thought this was just the best thing. Then we have the dog I am thinking about adopting who cost a $1000.00 and was given up while still a puppy. I just don't understand spending that much money, we are all going to spent a lot of our hard earned cash on our dogs I would just rather spent it on training, trials and the inevitable vets bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I've got a question.... OK, so ABCA won't take AKC registered dogs right? So couldn't ABCA pull registrations when these pups are registered with AKC? I'm wondering how this whole 'dual' registration can be promoted... (scratching my head) If you have an ABCA registered Border Collie and want to compete in AKC performance events, such as obedience, you apply for a PAL = purebred alternative listing. This is not registering the dog with AKC (NOTE THAT THE DOG MUST BE SPAYED/NEUTERED), which is unfair: Copied from the AKC website http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege Giving all purebred dogs a chance to compete Note: A fee of $10 was instituted, effective January 1, 2003, for Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege transfers or duplicate certificates. For more information contact PAL@akc.org. The AKC, PAL/ILP and You Many people have discovered the fun of teaming up with their dogs and competing in AKC Events. But, not all of those wonderful canine athletes that you see at these events are registered with the AKC. Some might be enrolled in the AKC's Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP), a program that allows unregistered dogs of registrable breeds to compete in AKC Performance and Companion Events, also 41 specific breeds in the FSS® Program that are eligible for Companion Events. If you have a purebred dog that cannot be registered with the AKC and have a desire to see what your dog can do in real competition, a PAL/ILP number is your ticket to the world of AKC events and clubs! Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP): The program that provides purebred dogs a second chance. There are various reasons why a purebred dog might not be eligible for registration. The dog may be the product of an unregistered litter, or have unregistered parents. The dog's papers may have been withheld by its breeder or lost by its owner. Sometimes, it is the dog itself that was "lost." There are many dogs enrolled in the PAL/ILP program after they have been surrendered or abandoned, then adopted by new owners from animal shelters or purebred rescue groups. The PAL/ILP program allows the dog and owner a second chance at discovering the rewards of participating in AKC events. What AKC events may a PAL/ILP dog Participate in? The Purebred Alternative Listing Program/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP) is designed to allow dogs to participate in AKC Companion and Performance Events. The AKC Events that a PAL/ILP dog can participate in are: * Agility Trials (All Breeds) * Earthdog Trials (Small Terriers and Dachshunds) * Herding Tests and Trials ( Herding Breeds, Rottweilers and Samoyeds) * Hunt Tests (Most Sporting Breeds and Standard Poodles) * Junior Showmanship (All Breeds) * Lure Coursing (Sighthounds) * Obedience Trials (All Breeds) * Rally Trials (All Breeds) * Tracking Tests (All Breeds) Once enrolled in the PAL/ILP program, entering AKC events is as easy as with a registrable dog. The only difference is that instead of an AKC registration number, you would list the dog's PAL/ILP number on the Entry form. How can you apply for a PAL/ILP number? Applications for enrollment into the Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege can be downloaded or by emailing PAL@akc.org. When requesting a form via email please include your name and current mailing address. Remember, PAL/ILP numbers can only be issused to AKC registrable breeds. The following must be submitted with a completed PAL/ILP application: * Two recent and clear color photographs of the dog; o one full front view showing the facial characteristics of the dog; o one view showing the full side profile of the dog standing on a flat surface (not grass). (ALL PHOTOS SHOULD BE TAKEN AT EYE LEVEL IN A STANDING POSITION, INCLUDE THE WHOLE DOG IN THE PHOTO. DO NOT SHOOT DOWN ON THE DOG.) * Proof from a veterinarian that the dog has been spayed/neutered. * A non-refundable $35.00 application fee. Once compiled, the completed PAL/ILP application along with the items listed above should be mailed to: The American Kennel Club/PAL/ILP PO Box 900059 Raleigh, NC 27675-9059 Enrollment in the Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege program is not to be construed as an alternative form of registration, but rather, as a listing so that dogs who are ineligible for AKC registration may participate in AKC Companion and Performance Events. A PAL/ILP may be cancelled for cause. For more information or questions about the PAL/ILP program contact PAL@akc.org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I didn't know he was dead. Nonetheless no more dogs from the Arthur Allen line which is what I should have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 DR, do you know anything about Arthur Allen? I hope you aren't dissing him in some fashion with the above comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I, for one, had no idea who Arthur Allen was. (Being the feckless newbie that I am.) But an inquiry to the web quickly changed that... If you don't know anything about the man check out this page... http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...rthurAllen.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokisaab Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Lucy Mack has just joined our pack!!! She has the famous Arthur Allen's champion lineage times FOUR! He is the famous author, trainer, owner of the champion collies that were used for Walt Disney movies. Isn't she georgeous?!!! She keeps herself emmaculate! Smart little girl!ABCA and AKC Registered she keeps herself immaculate? I don't even know what that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jingi Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 PT Barnum was right, there is a sucker born every minute.i think ALF said it better "there's a sucker born every minute...in february there's 28.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jingi Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 one more thing i forgot...while i was looking for a BC pup here in japan...the average price was $1200 to $1700...as the pup got older...the price dropped...other dogs are just as expensive...for example a Chi will run you about $1000...and most of the dogs here are puppy mill...so i guess that there are a lot of suckers in japan...hey wait...if i bought one of his "disney" dogs for $1200 to $2000 i could prolly sell it here in japan for triple that price...they are all over disney here...oh, wait...i have ethics...no wonder i will never be rich...curses, foiled again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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